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Hi, guys !:))
I have been doing a lot of cover versions
and when communicating with other forum
members I have got the impression that many
members would like to post covers too ?
Naturally, these covers would require a strong
presence of biab precicely as the public ones i.e.
our own compositions !
To avoid running into copyright problems many other
forums have separated the public access to files
from files only accessible to members (private)! I suggest
that the matter could be worth a closer look ?
Cheers
Dani
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There's no problems with posting copyrighted cover songs here as long as it's done legally. That simply means you have purchased the license for posting it on the internet for others to listen.
At least one PG user here does that. They post the license number in the OP so everyone knows it's legal.
Any other posting of a copyrighted song is illegal....according to the current copyright laws. Doesn't matter how it's done.
Most other forums have notices NOT to post copyrighted covers, but the administration of those sites either doesn't check or looks the other way. That still doesn't make it right. No matter what the people may thing...."MUSIC IS SUPPOSED TO BE FREE"..... copyright law says differently.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Good to hear from you again Dani !
Trevor
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
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Hey, forgive me this silly question !
I should have known what this forum
is about by now !:))
Take care
Dani
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Good to hear from you again Dani!
You raise an interesting point, but maybe in a different way than I'm about to take it. Herb mentioned one way in which the copyright law can be satisfied. But there are other ways too.
The live streaming sites like StreetJelly pay for a license that allows one time live streams (ie, can't be recorded to allow additional broadcasts)
This type of license is actually fairly inexpensive compared to the other ways to get licensed. A whole website can be licensed for a year for about the same cost as one person can get licensed to post his own songs.
I would LOVE for PGMusic to have live streaming (Like StreetJelly) as part of their site. The cost of licensing would be insignificant compared to the sales it would generate. Especially if you had to be a registered user of a PGMusic product to participate.
If they added tipping, it would actually turn into a profit center, because they'd get a cut of every tip. It would more than offset the cost of the license.
I honestly think that adding a way to show what BIAB can do in the realm of cover songs would REALLY open a floodgate of interest in the product.
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the problem with trying to circumvent copyright law by providing a company sanctioned private trading archive is that it would be too easy for somebody who works for ASCAP or BMI to join and document it. The key problem is the company sponsoring such a thing. It would introduce a lot of liability while offering no reward.
However, you as an individual could probably privately contact other users all day long and ask for their cover songs. But in the final analysis, you'd never know if the buddy you've been chatting with for years works for BMI, and has just been waiting to see if the forum serves as a conduit for illegal trading of copyrighted material.
Bottom line, no matter how we might try to circumvent the law, it has potential to hurt PGMusic, and I don't think any of us want to do that.
However, going back to the previous post... given the low annual cost of live streaming licenses, I think there is a legal way for PGMusic to tap into the enormous public interest that would be generated by live streaming cover songs, without generating any legal liability at the same time.
I think such licenses are in the $200 to $300 year range. Its based on a lot of things like audience size, so its hard to get an exact price without those specifics.
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Pat, I believe you are correct to be concerned. The way to do this is for PG Music to obtain the correct license(s) and set it up on their end. Unless and until they do, I believe we should follow PG Music's stated guidelines in their User Showcase Forum: "The songs must be originals, no copyrighted or "cover" songs. You must have all of the rights to the songs." No one but the composer and publisher could have "all" the rights unless the composer and publisher legally transferred them.
Disclosure: I'm a BMI artist. I get royalties from various sources when my songs are played. It isn't much, but it's something and it follows the procedures negotiated based on existing copyright laws.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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I am given to understand that motagator.com, of which I am an active participant, pays all fees and royalties on any covers that get played so it is the site of choice for my covers.
All of my originals that I own exclusive rights are uploaded to SoundClick.
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If there really is a way of posting BIAB cover songs then I am amazed that PG aren't jumping right on it. With the greatest of respect to all the seasoned users who write their own songs and seem a bit lukewarm about the idea of posting covers, using BIAB to create covers is what BIAB is really all about for the majority of users - especially newcomers. If BIAB could point potential customers towards online cover songs recorded in BIAB it would be far more impressive than having to demonstrate some of the cheesy songs that BIAB generates. It would also be far more useful to compare how others have used BIAB creatively to accompany well known covers instead of listening to unfamiliar songs.
Come on Peter - a few hundred dollars is nothing compared with the interest that it would generate for PG
Tony
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BB is a great program for doing covers. I've used it to do a few but they are not on the net..... at least not where anyone can find them.
I have an absolutely amazing cover of Mott the Hoople's All the Young Dudes along with CCR's Have you ever seen the Rain? and Neil Young's Rocking the free world......
But, for now...... you'll just have to take my word for that....
sorry. I shouldn't tease like that.....
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 05/07/15 04:00 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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If there really is a way of posting BIAB cover songs then I am amazed that PG aren't jumping right on it. With the greatest of respect to all the seasoned users who write their own songs and seem a bit lukewarm about the idea of posting covers, using BIAB to create covers is what BIAB is really all about for the majority of users - especially newcomers. If BIAB could point potential customers towards online cover songs recorded in BIAB it would be far more impressive than having to demonstrate some of the cheesy songs that BIAB generates. It would also be far more useful to compare how others have used BIAB creatively to accompany well known covers instead of listening to unfamiliar songs.
Come on Peter - a few hundred dollars is nothing compared with the interest that it would generate for PG
Tony Just to ensure that we're all on the same page, The relatively inexpensive license I mentioned above would not work for an archive like the user showcase where songs are stored online and can be played over and over again. The type of license I'm talking about is used for live performances that are broadcast via the performers web cam and can only be seen once during the live broadcast, (they aren't stored for future playback.) No doubt there are also licenses available for stored archives that get replayed many times, but those licenses would cost more. I have no idea how much more. Might be a little, might be a lot. All of the internet radio stations like Pandora that play cover songs are certainly licensed, so there must be a vehicle in place for that application too. I agree with you that there are probably more people using BIAB to create cover songs than there are writing original songs... I'm one of them. It does seem a little bit odd to find myself thinking that I don't fit in here anymore because of the focus on song writing, which doesn't interest me. Finding a way to engage the cover song oriented customers without simultaneously incurring legal liability would be huge, in my opinion. I think a live streaming application like Street Jelly is the best way to draw in the cover song crowd, because they tend to be performers who are accustomed to getting on stage in front of an audience. And, that type of license is probably the least expensive of all.
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[quote=Pat Marr
I agree with you that there are probably more people using BIAB to create cover songs than there are writing original songs... I'm one of them. It does seem a little bit odd to find myself thinking that I don't fit in here anymore because of the focus on song writing, which doesn't interest me. Finding a way to engage the cover song oriented customers without simultaneously incurring legal liability would be huge, in my opinion.
[/quote]
I have a repertoire of 650 cover songs and every time I create a new one I spend a long time mixing styles trying to get it to sound right. Oh how I wish I could hear how other people have tackled the same songs and even share our BIAB song files.
BTW, since I cannot memorize music, I have copied the sheet music for every one of those 650 and keep them binders with plastic sleeves so I can play my keyboard live by flipping the pages. Every measure on every page is numbered to correspond with the measures in BIAB so that I can keep track of repeats etc. It's a labor of love!
Tony
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I have a repertoire of 650 cover songs and every time I create a new one I spend a long time mixing styles trying to get it to sound right. Oh how I wish I could hear how other people have tackled the same songs and even share our BIAB song files.
Tony
Tony, are you aware of the BIAB YAHOO GROUP? They have several download directories where people post cover songs they've created. They aren't affiliated with PGMusic, they are more a labor of love built around the contributions made by many. The files you'll find there are supposed to have had the lyrics and melody removed to avoid copyright infringement. If you want to share files, that's probably the place to look first. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Band-in-a-Box/info https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Band-in-a-Box-Files/info https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Band-in-a-Box-Files2/info
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Hi Dani, Thanks for that idea, and it's good to hear from you again. They key would be if there is a site that people could use that does pay the royalties. One option could be YouTube, which does pay royalties http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/youtubes-billion-dollar-payout-provide-new-revenue-for-musicians-20140205"YouTube doesn't divulge how much it pays performers, songwriters, labels and publishers in advertising revenue, but music-business sources say it ranges from 60 cents to $2 for every 1,000 views. A performer receives royalties every time a YouTube or Vevo user clicks on a video, and a songwriter usually gets money whenever a cover version of a song (as in Baauer's "Harlem Shake" spinoffs early last year) generates enough views to draw advertisements." Anyway, if people could list sites that do allow cover songs and pay royalties, then we could have a forum here that people could post the info and links to their songs that are hosted on the other site. This is the same as the User Showcase Forum - where the songs are not hosted on pgmusic.com, they are hosted on the User's (Composers) site. What do people think about YouTube for this? ie) you can post links to your songs that are on YouTube in a pg music forum, and describe what RealTracks are used etc. You would have your song on YouTube, so you'd need to comply with their terms of service. Failing that, what other sites are there that pay royalties to the songs' composers?
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Peter, www.motagator.com is owned by fellow BIABer Paul Asher of Nottingham, England. My understanding is that Paul (Motagator) pays all royalties and fees on covers posted there. It might be prudent to discuss these points directly with Paul at the email address posted on the site. Membership is free including some storage space for member's music. Membership also includes a Storefront for selling one's music and memorabilia. (I will PM Paul's private email address - if necessary)
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Thanks for taking an interest here, Peter, because I'm sure we all want to do the right thing by PG Music.
You asked about sites including YouTube. I have posted very little on YouTube (have maybe 12,000 hits total), but some of my friends have been posting original songs for years and have many tens of thousands of views, yet no one I know has ever received a royalty from YouTube plays. Of course, we are just obscure jazz and folk musicians, but I do receive regular royalties from Pandora, Spotify, iTunes, Music Choice TV, and others.
These are for regular CD tracks, though, where I am both the primary artist and the publisher. I also have many compositions (written with BIAB) recorded on other artists' CDs, but I receive nothing from that other than the original mechanical license payments. It seems the online services can only deal with artist and publisher. So, for those wanting to post covers, I don't have an answer.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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I like the idea of a forum with links to YouTube covers. And originals.
A YouTube forum.
Seems straight forward enough. (Didn't realize covers were ok on YouTube). Cheers.
Last edited by RichMac; 05/07/15 11:31 AM.
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Pulling my covers down immediately!
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Don??? I must have missed something…
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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The only problem with YT is creating the video. Most of us just take the audio out from the computer and that's it but for YT you need a vid. That's a whole other level of complexity like, the setting for the vid, who's manning the camera, figuring out the software, syncing the video from the camera to the audio from the computer, all that mundane crap.
Plus of course I can't play along to my Biab tracks sitting in my chair in my bathrobe without a care as to how everything looks...now it's like a public performance gig, gotta put on my rockstar outfit, hide the wall art I don't want going out to the world...wonder when the Bowl is available for a shoot?
Back to Earth, one simple way to show off Biab is to play along with the backing tracks but no vocals or instrumental melody. Just don't sing, play the tracks, take some solos. If it's an instrumental piece just play the solo sections or rewrite the melody a bit. It's not that hard. Instead of posting the correct name of the tune like Brown Sugar or Summertime call it Green Sugar or Summertree or something. We'll figure it out.
If you post a link to Soundcloud where you have Arkansas Motel posted but it somehow sounds something like Hotel California, how's that going to impact PGM?
Bob
Last edited by jazzmammal; 05/07/15 01:13 PM.
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