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Hi,
This question has to do with extracting a midi bass track from BB.
First I forced the track to midi so I know it is midi.
I imported the midi file to Sonar Platinum and placed it in a midi track. I used a vst called SI Bass guitar to play it out. SI bass comes standard with Sonar.
Some of the notes in the midi file are below the range the vst can play out. What is up with that? This is more a Sonar question than BB but Matt said he uses Sonar Platinum also so perhaps he can put me on track.
I inserted a midi plunin and transposed the notes up plus 12 and of course it will play out.
I think the term for me is "Mididiot" because I have more issues with midi than anything else.
Another question, are the midi files in BB general midi or midi 2 or something else.
Help...drowning on dry land....lol
Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
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Anytime you change softsynths, you run the risk of note ranges not matching up. Sometimes, some softsynths play a completely different octave than what another softsynth plays. So what you did is correct; just transpose the part into what the softsynth expects, and that should put it into the range.
Additionally, some softsynths will have an extended range for certain instruments, that may or may not be the actual range of the associated acoustic instrument. So, low notes (or high notes) may get cut off on one softsynth, but play fine on another softsynth. They do not all obey the same rules.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 12TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 12TB SATA BB2026/UMC204HD&404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Notion/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com (under rehosting/construction)
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Thanks John,
I sort of assumed as much but lacking skills in midi I never know if the problem is with me or just the way the vst works.
I also put the midi track in Dimension Pro with the same results.
I assume most of these bass midi files are created on a keyboard which may play notes below the normal range of a bass guitar.
I will also put this midi bass line in RB and I am sure it will play out as written. I have no idea what polysynth RB uses and if it is general midi or midi 2 or something else or also if one has any control of the bass patch it uses.
Thanks,
Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
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Bass and guitar are written an octave higher than they sound. For example a true concert middle C, on a piano it is on the first ledger line below the treble staff C, is on the third space of the treble staff for a guitarist, i.e. written an octave higher than it sounds. So if your MIDI bass line is for it's actual notes (concert middle C) and your sound source is expecting an octave higher bass line (written) you may loose the lower notes. Sometimes it is visa-versa. Every sound source and MIDI base line is either one way of the other and it's up to you to match them. But all you have to do is to transpose the bass line either up or down an octave so it matches your sound source. For the in-depth Midiots I know there is some controversy over what is middle C. I am using the most common C5 MIDI note 60, read here: http://www.electronics.dit.ie/staff/tscarff/Music_technology/midi/midi_note_numbers_for_octaves.htmhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_%28musical_note%29 I hope this helps and is not too confusing.
Principal: Your child always causes trouble in school.
Me: My child causes trouble at home, do I ever call you?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Thanks Mario,
No...not really confusing,...well...
I generally think in this way...I guess it is correct.
Middle C is C4=261.6Hz
Standard tuning fork A is A4=440Hz
Piano range is A0=27.50Hz to C8=4186Hz
Guitar strings are E2=82.41Hz, A2=110Hz, D3=146.8Hz, G3=196Hz, B3=246.9Hz, E4=329.6Hz
Bass strings are (5th string) B0=30.87Hz, (4th string) E1=41.20Hz, A1=55Hz, D2=73.42Hz, G2=98Hz
I don't have a bass guitar at the moment, other wise I would have just played the bass part myself.
I sometimes just play the bass line on my six string guitar and convert it to midi and change the notes in Melodyne of other software which kind of defeats to purpose of BB use.
Thanks,
Billy
I went to the link you posted so I see why midi would call middle C something it is really not...The MIDI specification only defines note number 60 as "Middle C", and all other notes are relative. The absolute octave number designations shown here are based on Middle C = C5, which is an arbitrary assignment.
Last edited by Planobilly; 07/21/15 06:06 AM.
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
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Hi Billy. As you see, there are many folks with great knowledge, so you don't need me specifically. In fact, I haven't encountered the problems you are seeing, because I don't use softsynths; I use a hardware MIDI synth (a Roland integra-7) which plays anything you throw at it.
A plugin in SONAR should not be needed; for each MIDI track, there is the ability to adjust pitches and you just use plus or minus 12 as appropriate.
As for BIAB, I thought there is a setting to prevent notes below a certain range. I'll look for that.
EDIT: Preferences, Arrange, Lowest Bass Note
Last edited by Matt Finley; 07/21/15 10:30 AM.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Hello Matt,
Thanks, I assumed most anyone could address this issue. Just was pinging you because I know you run Sonar.
I will check out the edit preferences.
Also I have a Technics SX-PR603 which I love but have no midi mapping to Sonar. One day when I get out of kindergarten I will learn how to make the map.
As I have a United States Coast Guard Masters license you would think I could make a map...lol...ok ok no more stupid jokes, at least for today.
Cheers,
Billy aka Blind Lemon Simmons
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
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I concur with what others here have posted. It's not a Sonar issue. I use Studio One for my DAW and there are times the midi output from BIAB is not in the "correct" octave. I just do a select all and drag the whole thing up an octave, or transpose the whole track +12.
Rich
Windows 10, 64 bit | BIAB 2019 PlusPak | Studio One 2 Artist
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Thanks Rich,
I have never had much reason to try to understand MIDI in the past. Get on stage, plug in my amp, and play.
So I am like a little kid lost in the shopping mall crying for his mom...lol
Now, setting here playing with all this software and on the internet I am finding a real need to learn new and what seems
like pretty arcane stuff at times.
How fortunate we all are to have a place like this forum with so many kind people who take the time to answer what is most likely the same questions over and over again.
Thanks again,
Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
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Bass and guitar are written an octave higher than they sound. For example a true concert middle C, on a piano it is on the first ledger line below the treble staff C, is on the third space of the treble staff for a guitarist, i.e. written an octave higher than it sounds. So if your MIDI bass line is for it's actual notes (concert middle C) and your sound source is expecting an octave higher bass line (written) you may loose the lower notes. Sometimes it is visa-versa. Every sound source and MIDI base line is either one way of the other and it's up to you to match them. But all you have to do is to transpose the bass line either up or down an octave so it matches your sound source. For the in-depth Midiots I know there is some controversy over what is middle C. I am using the most common C5 MIDI note 60, read here: http://www.electronics.dit.ie/staff/tscarff/Music_technology/midi/midi_note_numbers_for_octaves.htmhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_%28musical_note%29 I hope this helps and is not too confusing. Thanks Mario. Here, I thought it was just Biab's way of utilizing the Bass parts. Yamaha has a Mega Midi software that coverts GM Bass to THEIR Mega Midi (Like our RealTacks) sounds. I had to also transpose the Bass part before sending it through that. Trax
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Thanks Rich,
I have never had much reason to try to understand MIDI in the past. Get on stage, plug in my amp, and play.
So I am like a little kid lost in the shopping mall crying for his mom...lol
Now, setting here playing with all this software and on the internet I am finding a real need to learn new and what seems
like pretty arcane stuff at times.
How fortunate we all are to have a place like this forum with so many kind people who take the time to answer what is most likely the same questions over and over again.
Thanks again,
Billy We are very fortunate for this forum! What you will run in is the fact that some companies will use C4, MIDI note number 60 as middle C while other will use C5 as MIDI note number 60 as middle C. PS - don't cry! Just ask for help here! That works for me! And I need tons of help! Don't believe me-------just ask my wife!
Principal: Your child always causes trouble in school.
Me: My child causes trouble at home, do I ever call you?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Principal: Your child always causes trouble in school.
Me: My child causes trouble at home, do I ever call you?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Now, setting here playing with all this software and on the internet I am finding a real need to learn new and what seems like pretty arcane stuff at times.
This stuff WILL drive you crazy Cap. One thing to keep in mind is there are thousands of folks who have 4 year degrees in audio production and that includes midi. You're not going to pick it up lurking on a few forums, you really have to dig deep just like you've done getting your license. I know all about that, I work with a bunch of merchant sailors including deep sea Masters and Mates who belong to AMO. It takes years of education and experience to get a license like that and it's no different with this stuff. Midi and digital audio has a language all to itself just like your field does. It comes from recording studios. And since midi started to become popular about 25 years ago it is an integral part of any studio. There are literally thousands or maybe even millions of YT vids that go into this plus other forums. A lot of it will be over your head because it's assumed you already know most of the terminology. You just have to dive in and start picking it up but it won't happen overnight just like I couldn't get a Masters license in a month either. Now, I'm not saying you can't have some fun using these programs by simply entering the chords and picking styles but as soon as you start asking technical questions like these, you need some of that background. Just keep asking questions here but also start finding some online courses and start studying. Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Thanks Bob,
Necessity is the mother of invention as they say. The more the demand I have to use MIDI the faster I will learn it.
Computers are pretty simple machines in their basic concept.
Converting musical interface into digital interface into zero and one takes a bit of messing about and actually the computer is not even smart enough to understand zeros and ones, only positive and negative voltage and magnetic fields and such.
There is nothing really super hard about MIDI. I just never had much need for it in the past.
There are a lot of good videos to explain things on lots of subjects and a lot more that drive me crazy. We are now "four min. into the video and the person has not said one useful thing relating to the subject matter....lol
It is really helpful to have a place to go to like this forum with so many people who know how this stuff works.
Give me a few weeks, answer a few questions, and I will have this midi stuff under control to the extent I need to use it.
Thanks for all the help
Cheers,
Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
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While necessity may be the "mother of invention", the father remains a complete mystery.
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lol...I'm not going there...lol
Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
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