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I'm a drummer and am wondering how far to go with fills. I know it depends a bit on the sound you are looking for, and to answer that, I'm looking for commercial country.
I am hesitant to put bigger drum fills in for fear of overplaying...yet, I hear the occasional great drum fill in many of today's commercial country songs.
I think of the songs Ringo played on, and artists like Tom Petty. Deceptively simple, yet perfect drum parts.
Yet, I feel I would like to add a fill in my songs as somewhat of a signature.
Then the questions start. Is it about the song or the drums? Is it about me showing I can drum or the song? Is playing a fill showing you can play, or showing a lack of maturity in my playing. Arg! LOL
Thoughts please! Do you like to hear a drummer put his occasional signature in, or prefer a wallpaper player?
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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My thoughts are that every band member should think about the mix and how my part can fit. A drummer, guitarist, bassist, keyboardist etc that overplays their parts can deteriorate the blend and ruin the song.
In some songs the drummer can add lots of fills however in other songs a simple beat with few fills will be a better choice. It will depend on the song and the audience.
PS - the biggest offenders of overplaying are drummers and lead guitarist IMHO.
It takes courage for a man to admit his wife was wrong.
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Nothing like a perfectly timed, perfectly placed fill, regardless of the instrument.
Several of the songs I have done in BB have some awesome drum fills in a few places.
Like so many things, to much of anything will ruin the best recipe.
Use your best discretion in using fills.
My motto is "LESS IS MORE"
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Depends on your fills and when they happen. Like Mario said; you can add to a song, and as Herb alluded to; you can do too much and detract. In my mind 'Fool in the Rain' has a lot of drum fills .. but all in exactly the right place so they work. A good drummer knows when a fill will add and when it won't. Your real question doesn't really happen until further down in your post. Is it about the song or the drums? It's about the song. If you make it about the drums you are no longer a team player in my mind. Especially if it is intentional and not because you don't know better.  you asked!
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Listen to Itchycoo Park by Small Faces Itchycoo Park. The song has a simple but well thought out drum fill that is essential to the song. Would the same fill (with effects) be as effective in another song? Likely not. The fill(s) need to match the song. For a more modern and up-to-date touch listen to what the drummers on Taylor Swift or Pharrell Williams recordings do for fills.
Last edited by JimFogle; 07/22/15 03:37 PM. Reason: typo
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It's about the song. If you make it about the drums you are no longer a team player in my mind. Especially if it is intentional and not because you don't know better.
smile you asked! Yeah, those were rhetorical questions. BUT sometimes you, or at least I, get caught up in doing "cool" instead of what it needs. At that point, I step back and ask those questions as a reminder to myself. It gives me the bigger picture! I will listen to the examples given today, although I already know some of them. I'm actually well aware of drumming and am a decent enough drummer. I hope that doesn't come across as big headed. There are PLENTY of drummers that make me look like I'm on day one! That being said, I have always been hired for a live presence and asked to push the envelope a bit to give music an edge. The studio side is a different bea(s)t to be sure. I totally agree the the worst offenders are the lead guitarists and drummers! I think that's why I am aware of it. There seems to be a fine line between "do your own thing, forget about what others think" and "to be commercially successful..." I'm just trying to navigate those waters. It may be a way too technical approach, but I have actually been studying songs in the genre, with the same type of feel, and emotion and gauging how many fills I hear. It is giving me a ballpark of where to be. If I have twice as many fills in the same type of song...check myself. If I don't have a single fill...check myself. ha! I'm exaggerating here for effect, but I feel it's great to study what is already successful for clues. From there...I am able to apply that to my own playing, and focus on just being me from there! Now watered down me, just "aware" me. Playing what's needed for the occasion. Thanks for the help. I may post an example soon, but I'm pretty early into the process yet. I know you can't please everyone, and opinions very 
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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Hi Caaron, I am (or at least was)a drummer in my days, and most always my biggest sin was that I was a "quiet" player as far as "volume" goes. Having said that, most people didn't have any problem with that. Then again, some tunes almost "scream" for a fill at certain times which almost sound logical. Then again, it all depends on what kind of music one play. But overall I think is a matter of good taste or not.
Later
Mike B.
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Hi Caaron, I am (or at least was)a drummer in my days, and most always my biggest sin was that I was a "quiet" player as far as "volume" goes. Having said that, most people didn't have any problem with that. Then again, some tunes almost "scream" for a fill at certain times which almost sound logical. So you were a drummer, and now (it looks like you are playing a guitar) you have crossed over into being a musician! I know what you mean about the fill part. There are some songs that have been really successful that scream "fill here" to me...and the drummer just keeps time instead of playing a fill. It wouldn't have been my choice...which is what has me second guess myself a bit. Which leads into your next point.. Then again, it all depends on what kind of music one play. But overall I think is a matter of good taste or not. Agreed. I think where my second guessing comes from is it also depends on your references. Going from one genre to another has VERY different implications. There are, to an extent, some expectations. The crossing over is what throws me a bit. Especially with the blending and borrowing of genres and styles. Then you add in taste. What is too salty for some is too bland for another. So I guess my take away is, just be me. Some will like it, some won't. But with me going for a commercial sound, I know there are somewhat guidelines. That is what I am trying to establish for myself. Thanks for the comments!
Last edited by HearToLearn; 07/25/15 06:11 AM.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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Going from one genre to another has VERY different implications. There are, to an extent, some expectations. The crossing over is what throws me a bit. Especially with the blending and borrowing of genres and styles.
I was in a wedding band that played all kinds of genres. We went through a couple of drummers until a friend of mine said my 15 year old daughter plays drums. She was a perfect fit and in fact played drums for us for about 4 years. She was a Ringo type drummer, that is nothing spectacular but always a rock solid beat. I guess that did make her spectacular after all. Plus she could play 50's rock, polkas, country, two step etc. Bass players well that was another story!
It takes courage for a man to admit his wife was wrong.
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Caaron,
Seems a simple solution to me (correct me if I'm wrong).
You are writing/producing modern (current) country.
Put a Luke Bryan CD on your iPod. Slap on some headphones. Sit down to a drum set and learn every song on the CD until you can play along without missing a beat (pun intended - or not...)
When you've got that, move to a Rascal Flatts CD. Rinse. Repeat.
FGL. Rinse. Repeat.
Billy Currington....
After a few, you should pretty much have the current "drum fill feel" down pat.
No need to complicate it.
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Caaron,
Seems a simple solution to me (correct me if I'm wrong).
You are writing/producing modern (current) country.
Put a Luke Bryan CD on your iPod. Slap on some headphones. Sit down to a drum set and learn every song on the CD until you can play along without missing a beat (pun intended - or not...)
When you've got that, move to a Rascal Flatts CD. Rinse. Repeat.
FGL. Rinse. Repeat.
Billy Currington....
After a few, you should pretty much have the current "drum fill feel" down pat.
No need to complicate it.
And that is pretty much what I did. I tend to like to push the envelope...strangely in both directions...too much or too little. I broke it down and I think I have a pretty good instinct for it now. Lay back here, and here, push a bit here. Thanks again! You always have clear cut advice! VERY appreciated as always!
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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Most of the commercial music you hear the drummer is just keeping the beat strong throughout, and will fill in just before a line the band wants emphasized and of course during section changes, and during breaks they will vary their playing only slightly just to break it up. Every instrument should only play as needed to make the song stay interesting to the listener, over playing is a mood killer no matter what instrument it is. Plug in the lead guitar on band in a box before you hit force track to simple arrangement and see how annoying it can be. What happens just like sometimes in live settings you get a perfect sounding track until someone or in biab case the lead guitar player or it could be any of the instruments starts playing smoke on the water; when you are asking it to play Love Me Tender; it goes off tangent and you can feel the band lose some momentum because your ear automatically knows; that just does not sound right. Thankfully they added the simple arrangement feature; cause some of the old timers will tell you there was a time you held onto your seat waiting for what was a beautiful track to go off the rails. I call them the ego maniac tracks. Of course as it is with any instrument; there are times when you will get a chance to show how good a drummer you are; drums more than any instrument i believe is about feeling when the need to add for spice. These professional groups you hear are most of the time playing with guys that eat sleep their craft; and so they have learned by trial and error. My ex father in law once told me about a time in a recording session he did in Nashville. He came in with the song he wrote, the band listened to it once; one of them charted it. and he stepped in front of the mic and they played it flawless. But these were guys who have played so much it just comes natural, as it will eventually come to you as well the more you hone your craft.
My TunesPsalm 57:7 My heart, O God, is steadfast, my heart is steadfast; I will sing and make music.
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Are there any country bands with 'melodic' drumming, where fills are to be expected? Something ala Peart from Rush, where a big part of the overall sound is the 'melodic' fills - can't think of this in country or country/rock, bluegrass, etc. The closest I can think of are not mainstream country bands, but more of an alternative rock/country hybrid - like The Blue Merle Here's one where the drummer does very tasteful fills: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoWA_Lr6aoQNote that most of the fills are very simple - only one that I can count that uses rack toms. I think you have to go to prog-country like String Cheese Incident, to hear fills aplenty.
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I think if you're looking for a formula, it doesn't exist. Knowing what to do and when to do it, is all part of being a good musician.
No two songs are the same and you can't look at drum fills in isolation - you need to be aware of what the other instruments are doing and the rhythms which are involved. Then it's a case of making a judgement and playing whatever is appropriate.
As Bob (PgFantastic) said, the pros do it first time, all the time.
ROG.
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I think that no matter the style, the drummer is the most important person on the stage. People don't tap their feet to the lead player. They groove to the backbeat that the drummer and bass player are laying down.
I've seen more bad drummers than good, but the good ones kept the band cooking like a souped up V8, and kept their stage volume in check.
We heard a duo last week. A guitar player with some tracks and a drummer. The singer was good, but everyone was watching the drummer. In addition to being tight and tasteful, he was juggling sticks like a madman. Very entertaining.
Regards,
Bob
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Hi,
To me the drummer is the most important member in a band. Then comes the bass player . And yes, I can hear the guitar players screaming and cursing me all the way from LA for that statement...lol
If you don't have a bottom you don't have a band.
Style aside I often go listen to artist I like and ask myself if I could listen to just the drummer and the bass player. Almost all the acts I like have great drummers and bass players who I can listen to by them self.
Today things are a little better on stage due to better sound systems so I have less trouble hearing what I need to hear. Most good bands I like require that the drummer drives the band and that it not to say it has to be like that every second of every performance. Everyone has to listen to what is going on in the moment.
I really like drum fills that remind me the change is coming NOW because it is easy to get lost in a guitar solo or piano solo and blow right through the changes.
Fills that follow lead parts are way cool. Fills that are there for no good reason makes the music worse not better. Lead players who can follow drum fills are way cool.
Just because a drummer or a guitar player or anyone in the band can do something does not make it musical.
Playing ten thousand notes a nano second on drums or guitar just because you can may seem cool but the music suffers greatly.
Speed and knowing a million licks is not needed to be great. Knowing a million licks is also a cool thing. Knowing when and when not to use them is the difference between the great artist and the good artist.
Think about BB King for a second. He could play one note and you know who was playing and he got your attention with that one note.
Don't get so stressed that you are fearful of doing something wrong and don't get so cocky you think you can't screw up.
Music is a team sport.
No one else can really tell you how you should be playing and least of all musicians.
You can only play for three types of listeners.
1. Yourself
2. Other musicians
3. The public
So decide who you are trying to impress and go for it.
If it is the public you want to impress then it is not very important what you think or what other musicians think. It is only important what the public thinks because they are the ones who the have the check book.
This is pretty to the point of what I think and I have no doubt there will be some disagreement...lol
Best of luck,
Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
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To me the drummer is the most important member in a band. Then comes the bass player . And yes, I can hear the guitar players screaming and cursing me all the way from LA for that statement...lol
Got that right 
You can only play for three types of listeners.
1. Yourself
2. Other musicians
3. The public
So decide who you are trying to impress and go for it.
If it is the public you want to impress then it is not very important what you think or what other musicians think. It is only important what the public thinks because they are the ones who the have the check book.
Billy
I agree. I'm in the play for the public! Give them what they want and they will pay for it. Play for the public is what my musical goal was in my wedding band and I made a lot of money doing just that.
It takes courage for a man to admit his wife was wrong.
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Bass players well that was another story!
I'm with you Mario, I'm with you. Been there, done that... Worked with some sensational ones; and then, well then there were the other ones...
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Professional & Windows 11, Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors
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Bass players well that was another story!
I'm with you Mario, I'm with you. Been there, done that... Worked with some sensational ones; and then, well then there were the other ones... Been there, done that also!
It takes courage for a man to admit his wife was wrong.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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I'm with you Mario, I'm with you. Been there, done that... Worked with some sensational ones; and then, well then there were the other ones... Same here. In fact, it reminds me of a joke which you have all probably hear, but in case you haven't I thought it was pretty funny. How many bass players does it take to change a light bulb? 1. Wait, 5. Now, 1...5...1...5. It makes me appreciate the great bass players all the more. It is one of my favorite instruments when played well! Anyway, thanks for all of the ideas. I did figure out what was having me second guess myself. I have played a lot of rock, Latin, Jazz and swing. I have also played older country to just up to the newer country. But I haven't played the latest "country" for myself out live. I guess I just wasn't first hand familiar with it. I understood it, but didn't experience it yet. When I went to play it, I felt as though I was playing pretty much a rock song. So I kept hesitating thinking I was overplaying. Nope. It's the state of country music...which I understood intellectually but it just felt weird! when that happens I ask for outside perspectives! Thanks for keeping on the path! You all rock!...or country;)
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!
Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 21.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 21 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Introducing XPro Styles PAK 10 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 10 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 10 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 21 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!
Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 21.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 21 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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