Hey Guys, Thanks for the great help. The best forum ever. I'm helping my 15yr old son put together a band with the best young player from two states. We are using some midi files for some backing like slight keyboards, piano, horns etc. We want to put a click track in the drummers left ear so that the drummer will have a "dead on meter". and also send the other tracks to the P.A. I have edited the drum track that come with the midi file in piano roll but that is just a terrible way to do it. Can anyone tell me the best way to put in a click track in the file.
I hope I explained this well enough to make sense!
If you have MIDI tracks you should have the tempo set/controlled by the MIDI file. This is assumed. If not, Realband can fix this, but generally this should be OK.
Go to a blank track. Change type to MIDI Go to Event List and add a single note at 1-1-0 using channel 10 and Eb2 for the note. Do this again for 1-2-0, 1-3-0 and 1-4-0. Now you should have one measure of click using a sidestick for the 1-2-3-4 of the first measure (MIDI). Test to verify. Copy/Paste this for the length of the song. (ProTip: I made a .MID file of this that is 100 measures long to avoid doing the previous steps over and over and now I just import that using Load Scrap feature)
Now you can export/render that MIDI track to an Audio track. Set it up as an audio track in your project and route it to an output that is routed to only the drummer's headphones. This may require a sound card with multiple separate stereo outputs if you want stereo, but if in mono a basic card can work by separating L/R. It would also benefit from a headphone mixer. I've used a couple Powerplay PRO-8 headphone mixers for quite a few years without issue. This allows a totally separated feed to the drummers headphones compared to rest of band. <grin>
So a little more info is needed to add more suggestions; what do you have for sound card, mixer and headphone amp? The physical routing is the tough part. The RB part is easy.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome Make your sound your own!
In RB open your project and use File-Scrap-Load Scrap path to load it onto your clipboard. Hit rewind so the cursor is at the beginning of the song, and use Edit-Paste to paste it to a new blank track. This is how you import one MIDI file (or SEQ file) into another in RB. I use this file below to avoid the steps in the 2nd paragraph of the above post.
You should now have a new sidestick click track in MIDI.
As mentioned; route it to the drummer somehow. A multi-output sound card is the easiest way, maybe you can route that MIDI to a different synth to reroute it, or turn it into audio, or other ways.. There are lots of routing options available, but you'll need one.
What I would do is use a drum stick count in like a real drummer often does.... tapping the sticks together so everyone in the band can hear..... once the song starts, the click should NOT be needed, so stop the click at the beginning of the song. If you have other instruments playing simple be sure the drummer can hear them cleanly. Even if it's just a piano or strumming acoustic guitar in parts of the song, the live players should be able to easily follow the beat.
The drummer should be able to follow along easily without having to fret over the click and staying with it. Drummers notoriously hate a click. So just give them the starting count in.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
There are times when a click is needed throughout, and times when just the count-in is needed. You make the call!
We had songs/shows that used SEQ files to run lights, change guitar patches, synth patches, reverb units, etc. .. so sometimes the drummer staying with the click is crucial. Having the guitar change sound 1 note before it was supposed to could be embarrassing.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome Make your sound your own!
once the song starts, the click should NOT be needed
Sorry to disagree, but if there are other tracked parts in the song, DEFINITELY have a click the whole time! I don't even know pro players that go without it IF there are tracks to be played to.
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so stop the click at the beginning of the song. If you have other instruments playing simple be sure the drummer can hear them cleanly. Even if it's just a piano or strumming acoustic guitar in parts of the song, the live players should be able to easily follow the beat.
Especially with them being younger players, be SURE that the click and the backing tracks are the loudest thing he hears BY FAR. He will want live instruments in there barely for reference.
The last thing you want him/her to do is start following the non-tracked instruments! Recipe for disaster.
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The drummer should be able to follow along easily without having to fret over the click and staying with it.
With tracks, a click is saving grace!
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Drummers notoriously hate a click. So just give them the starting count in.
Most pro drummers do not hate a click at all. Clicks have come a long way, and are a necessary part of live playing on a bigger level.
I do understand we are talking about a young player here. IF you are going to use tracks, PLEASE give the kids a great way to stick with the tracks. Don't set them up for failure.
Here is my advice, and take it for what it's worth.
Do NOT complicate this. The more technology you have to use live the great chance of something going wrong.
The simplest version of what you are talking about that I have used and see used fairly often for small shows is an ipod/mp3 player.
The downside is you would be limited to mono backing tracks. Typically not a big deal in a smaller setting anyway.
Pan all of the instrument tracks about 70% right. This gives you a small amount in the left ear as well.
Next pan the click sounds (yes soundS) 100 % right. This means that NON of it will be coming into the tracks (right) channel.
*please be sure there is NO reverb/effects on the click as it may bleed into the right side as a result. If you hear the click in the right side at all, this may be the culprit!
One last thing with this. What's nice about an mp3 file is the other kids can also have copies to practice with as much as they would like on there own!
Make sure you have a backup player with all of the files you will need "just in case"
Also, make sure you leave enough space (extra blank bars) at the end of the song so it doesn't go instantly into the next, unless that is what you are going for!
THE CLICK ITSELF
The old stick click..1,2,3,4...is still somewhat used but there are MUCH better options!
You can still have that, but ADD IN shaker or bongos, or tambourine...or all of them...anything to help establish a sense of groove! It helps people get the feel.
Some other considerations are vocally adding the name of the song before the countin, so they KNOW what song it is. You can give little vocal references like "Intro", "Verse", "Chorus" "Guitar solo". This helps A TON! You never wonder where you are. YOU KNOW!
On that subject, I would also add "End song, Press stop" This prevents the next song from starting unexpectedly!
That's a start. Use it, don't use it. It's all good by me. I just wanted to let you know more how things are done. Of course the pros are using laptops and redundancy systems but this is the starting out version that is just as effective for now
I hope that helps. Ask if you have any questions. I have played/toured live and am a studio drummer. I love to help
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
A friend of mine made a video for such questions. It's a bit sad how few views it's gotten. Anyway, it's great to prepare kids for what they may end up doing
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
Thanks Caaron! You really know your stuff! I talked to my sons guitar teacher last week and he told me the same stuff. Although he doesn't necessarily like the clicks, tracks and all the rest, he did admit that back when he toured they used clicks for everything from timing to lights and pyrotechnics. I also found out that RUSH uses click tracks and sequencers for their whole show (always have). I have followed up on the Ipod idea and I believe I can use a small six channel mixer next to the drummer and let him control the click track and the backing tracks with the Ipod. Of course patch that one into the main mixer. I have also e-mailed the people who make the backing tracks and ask them to include a click track with the midi files that I get from them to make it even easier!
I also found out that RUSH uses click tracks and sequencers for their whole show (always have)
I forgot to comment on this. Yes indeed! In fact, a little trick I've seen them do is where they put a stop in a song. Wait (what appears to be) a totally random amount of time, and BAM!...all hit a note together WITHOUT even looking at each other! Then another break, and BAM! BAM! BAM!...all perfect with each other!
I was amazed at their timing! I couldn't believe it! A few years later I figured that out and started using some of that for bands I did some programming for. It allows you to be a little loser looking.
In fact, most people don't know that clicks can be variable speed if programmed to do so!
There is a lot you can do with them with a bit of creativity. And you are right, pyrotechnics, lighting, instrument effects, video, can all be synced perfectly...and in a way that would be nearly impossible or impossible to humanly do.
That doesn't mean it HAS to be rigid though!
Also, your mixer should work great. It would also allow him to control click, tracks and a stage mic (if needed) volume separately.
You may want to purchase some sound isolation headphones or earbuds if you don't own in ears for him to use.
Walmart has some Skull Candy ear buds that can do this to a point. I use them when mowing the lawn! They are only $10 but work pretty great for me.
Just make sure he has volumes low enough to not damage ears. The isolation of the headphones will help a lot with this.
Good luck!
Last edited by HearToLearn; 08/03/1507:24 AM.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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