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Hi, This may be the other side of the world from BB but there is a lot to learn that can be applied to BB on this video. https://youtu.be/XWMKAX8ChucCheers, Billy
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Billy,
Great info, thanks!
Don
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Enjoyed that, thanks for sharing.
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There were several aspects in this video I found interesting in comparison to my BB workflow and equating the session musicians to RealTrack/midi/Supermidi BB musicians.
Their workflow in the video begins with a rough outline of a song, they listen, evaluate and rehearse the song, finding and developing the groove of the song along the way. Once they find the groove, they can quickly record the actual sound/vibe into the demo. I think this part of the session is similar to most recording sessions, be it demo or tracking a major cut.
Whereas, I begin a song, lyrics, melody and chord progression and proceed to the demo or final recording stage all in a single BB song. Sometimes because of all the evaluating and auditioning of styles and instruments, my final version is not a recording of the song initially created in my head. Not in style, instrumentation or even time signature and tempo. Band in a Box itself becomes an integrated co-writer/producer of my original song. That's completely different than what this video portrays.
It makes me wonder how my outcome is affected by this in the area of commercialism and accounts for the Band in a Box sound that is sometimes easily identifiable.
The video also mentions another interesting topic regarding the speed of production. Here, it is pointed out that in the Demo stage, a session usually works to complete 3-4 different songs as opposed to a release recording where it's illustrated that Lionel Richie had 3 three hour sessions per day for three days having 27 hours in the single song, "Stuck on You". I recall an earlier video post here on the forum a few months ago with Alan Parsons on recording vocals. In the video, Michael McDonald relates how he normally has to sing for 3-4 hours before he gets a vocal suitable for a recorded take. It was mentioned in a documentary about the day John Lennon was killed that the work scheduled for the studio on the day he was killed was to overdub and punch in vocals. Nine hours of a major studio with top level engineers, producers and artists just to tweak vocals. Amazing to me.
Finally, I recommend if you have the opportunity, to take time to view one of the YouTube recommended videos that are attached to the above video. It chronicles Shania Twain, developing a demo of one of her original songs with David Foster. It is also an excellent 'development of a demo' from the professional point of view. Shania Twain's self imposed vocal insecurity as she has struggled back was surprising.
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This video would have been a little more instructive if we could hear the vocal...copyright issues
I pick up little things like " I covered the vox up with the drum fill, have to re do that"
That is a huge deal actually, not a small thing and he caught it as soon as he played the track back.
Learning to think like a pro can only be done by being there next to the pro...via video in this case.
The internet is crazy cool for getting to "set in" on a session like this.
Billy
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It makes me wonder how my outcome is affected by this in the area of commercialism and accounts for the Band in a Box sound that is sometimes easily identifiable. You've identified a problem/crutch.  This is a good thing It chronicles Shania Twain, developing a demo of one of her original songs with David Foster. If you have David Foster working on your 'demo' it really shouldn't be considered a demo anymore. <grin> If I had him working on a song with me I'd be touting it as collaboration.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Thank you for posting this!
There have been several times where people make comments about "the pros do it in one take" or "they come in without rehearsing and just do it perfectly the first time." I usually don't comment, but know that is BY FAR not typical if ever. I think those are passed down stories from people who are not experienced in professional recordings.
This is video is the type of situation I typically see. Musicians need to communicate to get it right. It may not always take a long time to do; but there is plenty of communication and working to get the right feel, sound, tempo...all of it.
So again I thank you for posting this.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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It is an impressive thing to watch seasoned studio musicians "do their thing".
Also nice that they recorded a session to share...
One thing that they did not show in this case is how good those guys are at writing charts.
They had one done beforehand - most likely by Paul since he was obviously in charge.
In a typical demo session, they will be doing 4-5 songs for a "customer" (songwriter(s)) who simply bring a cassette tape of a quick guitar/vocal - as rudimentary as it gets.
They slap that in a player and the musicians write the chart as they listen. One time through. They then chat around about what they hear to make sure they all have they same thing. Then, as you see, a quick "groove check", some discussion about various parts and hit record. One take is typical (once all the preliminary set up in done). A few punch ins for a missed note here or there. This is typical of songwriter demo sessions. Generally, there is a long standing relationship between the writers and the musicians, so everyone knows what they are after.
Generally, one of the songwriters is in the vocal booth to provide a scratch vocal as they go.
A seasoned demo singer will be brought in later to do the vocals - in a separate session - you can't waste the musicians time getting the vocals right. It makes for some funny vocals when a a couple of guys have written a "girl song"...
Keep in mind what this costs. A 4-5 song session (which is typical at high end studios because everyone gets more bang for their buck) will cost $2000 ($400-$500 per song). So BIAB cost basically the same as one song - and it's FREE after that!
Also...keep in mind, these guys do this 24/7. And they only have to do their part. And they work together day-in and day-out. Coming up with the grooves and licks that fit what they hear on that simple cassette demo is nothing to them - it's automatic.
As you do your BIAB production, you have to do all the thinking. Think like a guitar player. Think like a fiddle player. A steel player. A drummer (who can do that?!?)
SO, it is going to be a bit tougher to "get that groove". But the tracks are there that will give it to you.
You just need to learn to listen like a producer - and then poke around RTs until you find something that will give you what you need.
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It makes me wonder how my outcome is affected by this in the area of commercialism and accounts for the Band in a Box sound that is sometimes easily identifiable. You've identified a problem/crutch. This is a good thing Yes. It seems so. I'm excited to see how well I can take advantage of the knowledge and improve my recordings. It chronicles Shania Twain, developing a demo of one of her original songs with David Foster. If you have David Foster working on your 'demo' it really shouldn't be considered a demo anymore. <grin> If I had him working on a song with me I'd be touting it as collaboration. I've not kept up with all of what Shania Twain has endured and don't know if there is a medical condition regarding her voice but I found it interesting the insecurity she showed with her vocals and also the vulnerability and intimidation toward working with David Foster. Mr. Foster displayed a lot of respect for the talents of Shania Twain to both her vocals and songwriting. Of course, there was nothing for her to be nervous about. I'm amazed at how ordinary some talented celebrities think of themselves.
BIAB 2026:RB 2026, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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"SO, it is going to be a bit tougher to "get that groove". But the tracks are there that will give it to you.
You just need to learn to listen like a producer - and then poke around RTs until you find something that will give you what you need."
I agree with you. My mindset is that what we have with RealTracks, and the ability to regenerate them to some degree, is not very discernible from what we would receive if we had the opportunity to record in one of the big studio's and the RealTrack artists of BIAB were the session musicians for our demo. We would receive a generic, superbly played instrumental with small changes to correct an error or create a livelier part if needed.
So, depending on our individual level of talent, experience and technological ability, how we compare to one of these top level musician demo sessions productions using BIAB comes down to lacking the producer and engineer, disregarding the quantity and quality of the equipment and studio of course. But these studios are also now working daily with tracks recorded in environments and with equipment that is the same as what we have.
BIAB 2026:RB 2026, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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As you do your BIAB production, you have to do all the thinking. Think like a guitar player. Think like a fiddle player. A steel player. A drummer (who can do that?!?) SO, it is going to be a bit tougher to "get that groove". But the tracks are there that will give it to you. Everything you wrote is right on but since this thread is about doing a demo that is going to be presented to a producer or publisher... Biab will not cut it by itself. It's fine to lay out the song, get the basic elements there but to use Biab tracks for the whole thing except for your vocal or you playing? I could be wrong and there are exceptions to everything but imho I don't think so. Example when he stops the session to say he wants to put the Pretty Woman drum lick in there as a break. That is a good idea and adds a real nice bit of spice to the song. Somebody trying to do this demo in Biab is going to have their Real Drum track just playing through that or they're going to try to somehow cut and paste a fill in there that will not flow correctly. This is exactly the sort of thing that gives away the fact that it's a Biab created demo. These guys are not stupid, they know all about Biab and all the RT/RD's. The guitarist and keyboard guy are playing somewhat generic but still specific parts for this demo. They don't sound like what the guitar or organ RT's sound like. When Harvey Gerst was posting here a few years ago he explained in detail how he might create an 8 bar RT to fill in a background guitar strum part because the guitarist had already gone home and they didn't want to pay him to come back so he filled that in with an RT. Huge difference between that and using Biab for the whole thing. Biab is a wonderful tool but if you're serious about presenting a demo to producers or publishers you need what's being shown in this video. Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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.. and intimidation toward working with David Foster. I can understand that part for sure. When you work with people that have those kind of credentials you *should* feel a bit intimidated. I know I would. /It may actually help with the extra effort side of things I'm excited to see how well I can take advantage of the knowledge and improve my recordings. Stay true to the song. Use these tools but put down an original scratch track of the idea so you can refocus and make better decisions along the way if needed. I've wandered off track many times playing with RT's etc, but found this little trick well worth the few minutes it takes. A couple of times it reminded me of a bridge or other little tidbit I had forgotten. It doesn't need to be pretty, just get the idea down before you forget it. Previously I would do it with pieces that others had asked me to help develop, but then I realized I should do it for me too.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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As you do your BIAB production, you have to do all the thinking. Think like a guitar player. Think like a fiddle player. A steel player. A drummer (who can do that?!?) SO, it is going to be a bit tougher to "get that groove". But the tracks are there that will give it to you. Everything you wrote is right on but since this thread is about doing a demo that is going to be presented to a producer or publisher... Biab will not cut it by itself. It's fine to lay out the song, get the basic elements there but to use Biab tracks for the whole thing except for your vocal or you playing? I could be wrong and there are exceptions to everything but imho I don't think so. Example when he stops the session to say he wants to put the Pretty Woman drum lick in there as a break. That is a good idea and adds a real nice bit of spice to the song. Somebody trying to do this demo in Biab is going to have their Real Drum track just playing through that or they're going to try to somehow cut and paste a fill in there that will not flow correctly. This is exactly the sort of thing that gives away the fact that it's a Biab created demo. These guys are not stupid, they know all about Biab and all the RT/RD's. The guitarist and keyboard guy are playing somewhat generic but still specific parts for this demo. They don't sound like what the guitar or organ RT's sound like. When Harvey Gerst was posting here a few years ago he explained in detail how he might create an 8 bar RT to fill in a background guitar strum part because the guitarist had already gone home and they didn't want to pay him to come back so he filled that in with an RT. Huge difference between that and using Biab for the whole thing. Biab is a wonderful tool but if you're serious about presenting a demo to producers or publishers you need what's being shown in this video. Bob I think you are exactly right Bob. If I could time travel back to 1960 and take BIAB with me I'd be golden! But nowadays the requirements for an actual demo are sky high and with musicians like those in that crew, there is absolutely no room for canned bits and pieces. But, for folks like me where music is a hobby, BIAB is a truly delightful way for imagining my songs are real!
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This is a video of a sort of "demo" I did in Fort Worth Texas. The back story is that a friend and I wrote the lyrics over the internet. I got on a plane in Miami early and flew to Dallas, rented a car and got to the studio at around six. The guys showed up around seven. We joked that everyone could only do one take and that is how it got cut. I talked to the drummer for about two min and told Curtis the engineer to hit record. The drummer and I played the song through, me on guitar. Big John the bass player showed up about that time and we did the vocal in one take. I showed the lyrics to Robert and he sang it right off the sheet having never seen it before. We single tracked the guitar lead, harmonica, piano, and steel guitar. By 10:00 we were finished. Dr Wu was walking around with his video camera and he made the video except for the color intro which I cut in. Curtis and I stayed up till 3:00 mixing. To tired to go back to the hotel I went to sleep at the studio. Never go to a studio that does not have a bed...lol What you see is a short version of what went on. It would have been ever so cool if I had BB then to rough out the song. I was a bit stressed out putting everything together with the guys, showing Robert a bit of how to sing the song, playing guitar, running out to get some beer...lol This was max fun and I wish I had the money to do it once a week...lol https://youtu.be/lE8PABawHEsWhile everyone experiences PTSD differently, there are three main types of symptoms: Re-experiencing the traumatic event. Avoiding reminders of the trauma. Increased anxiety and emotional arousal The song is a bit serious but making it was fun Cheers, Billy PS...I will look for the lyrics EDIT: I had to dig to find this...lol PTSD SONG Sound effect intro We did for our country they did it for me Like the vets from Vietnam back in nineteen seventy three All the guys from World War Two dug in for the fight Bullets flying every where in the middle of the night You found yourself in a hole over there You met the beast better beware Trying to kill you but you don’t care Keep on marching my brother One foot in front of the other Solo You were there in country, you were the elite Now you’re here back in the world walking down the street Startled by the smallest sound of a car passing by You try your best to hide it, the tear from your eye You found yourself in a hole over there You met the beast better beware Trying to kill you but you don’t care Keep on marching my brother One foot in front of the other Solo You keep you gun by side you you know it’s not right When you wake up screaming in the middle of the night The doctor takes the history and then he writes it down You just keep on thinking they gona put me in the ground You found yourself in a hole over there You met the beast better beware Trying to kill you but you don’t care Keep on marching my brother One foot in front of the other Solo You know the beast is a monster that lives inside your brain Every day you wake up he’s driving you insane Government says there ain’t no cure you put a gun up to your head Your finger is on the trigger nothing more to be said You found yourself in a hole over there You met the beast better beware Trying to kill you but you don’t care Keep on marching my brother One foot in front of the other Sound effect out Perhaps I should move this to it's own thread.
Last edited by Planobilly; 08/02/15 01:53 PM.
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OK, I am starting to get it. First it is not Pianobilly, but Planobilly. And Billy plays guitar.
Some good old rock and roll there, thanks for sharing.
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I always got a kick out of the name, although it made me think he was from TX ..
/// I thought 'Ziggy' played guitar?? ///
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Yes...Plain old Billy...really old...lol.. from Plano Texas...lol
Actually from Houston but there it was Blind Lemon Simmons...lol
Lived in Plano Texas for a few years down the street from Andy Timmons, a real guitar player.
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I always got a kick out of the name, although it made me think he was from TX ..
/// I thought 'Ziggy' played guitar?? /// Ziggy aka John Ziegler got to cool for Texas and moved to LA to teach guitar and play at the Baked Potato, spent way to much time hanging around Larry Carlton...lol A little arcane Texas history...lol...guitar slingers, hum dingers, dead ringers... https://youtu.be/aCPjLSKJ3DAYou guys are gona kill me soon...lol Billy
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Depending on the style of music I suppose...IMHO I feel you could totally pull off a demo with BIAB. Yes you will have to tweak a few things (as pointed out) to give it a few signatures, but there is a lot that could be used very effectively. What you can't use is the "generate and that's good enough" attitude for sure. From what I typically hear, BIAB or a local band in the studio, what usually is missing is arrangement. It's not knowing how to develop all sorts of hooks...and repetition of them. Last, and most important many times, is the vocals. If those aren't there, good luck. Yes there are exceptions, but if the goal is a song that people like, a voice they like helps in that  Just my 2 cents. I may be getting my 2 cents back soon...lol. Great topic!
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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BIAB is really good software and with enough skill and willingness to spend large amounts of time getting all that can be gotten from the program one could come up with a pretty good sounding demo.
But...only in certain styles, and I think there would always be the need to play something live.
You could pull a thirty thousand pound trailer with your pickup truck but why would you?
I really like BIAB and I am glad I have it but I don't think it is logical to ask the software to do something way out of it design parameters, even if it can be done. It is just to much work and there are much quicker ways of doing things.
I am not willing to spend three hundred hours getting something out of BIAB that I can buy for a hundred bucks for example. That's just not cost effective, for me a least.
Last word on this subject...There also is no sure way to get what you want from a first class pro studio. Everything has limits.
Billy
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If you have any questions about which package is the best option for you, just let us know. We're here to help!
202 New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2026!
With Band-in-a-Box® 2026, we've released 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 468-488) in a variety of genres—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Funk & World (Sets 468-475):
Our new jazz, funk & blues RealTracks include a groovin’ collection of RealTracks and RealDrums! These include more requested “soul jazz” RealTracks featuring artists Neil Swainson (bass), Charles Treadway (organ), Brent Mason (guitar), and Wes Little (drums). There are new “smooth jazz” styles (4), which include a RealTracks first: muted trumpet, as well as slick new smooth jazz brushes options for drums. Blues lovers will be thrilled—there are more “classic acoustic blues” styles, including guitar (5), bass (4), and drums (10) with blues master Colin Linden, featuring understated and tasty background acoustic soloing, plus brushes drums and acoustic bass. There are also new electric blues RealTracks, including electric blues with PG favorite Johnny Hiland (3) and soulful electric slide guitar from Colin Linden (4). If you love funk & gospel, there are great new options this year, including gospel organ (3) from Charles Treadway, as well as new funk, tango, and rock ’n’ roll drums (3) and bass (1). And for big, bold arrangements, we have uptempo soul horns (4) featuring a three-part hip horn section with options for a full mix or stems of each individual horn — plus an accompanying rhythm section (4) of drums, bass, guitar, and electric piano!
Rock & Pop (Sets 476–482):
Our new rock & pop RealTracks bring a powerful mix of requested favorites, fresh genres, and modern chart-inspired styles! We have more of our popular “Producer Layered Acoustic Guitars (15)” featuring Band-in-a-Box favorite Brent Mason. We’ve continued our much-requested disco styles (10), and added new Celtic guitar (5) with a more basic, accessible approach than our previous Drop-D or DADGAD offerings. There are also highly requested yacht rock styles (17), inspired by the smooth, polished soft-rock sound of the late ’70s and early ’80s — laid-back grooves, silky electric pianos, warm textures, elegant harmonic movement, and pristine production aesthetics. Fans of heavier styles will love our new glam metal (13), capturing the flashy, high-energy sound of ’80s arena-ready guitar rock. We also have a set of rootsy modern-folk rock (18), with a warm, organic sound combining contemporary folk textures and driving acoustic strumming. And we’ve added lots of new modern pop styles (16) — the kinds of sounds you’re hearing on the radio today, featuring exciting new drums, synths, and cutting-edge RealTracks arrangements.
Country, & Americana (Sets 483–488):
Our new country & Americana RealTracks deliver a rich collection of acoustic, electric, and roots-inspired styles! We have new country pop (9) with legendary guitarist Brent Mason. There is also a potpourri (14) of bouzouki, guitars, banjo, and more, perfect for adding texture and character to contemporary acoustic arrangements. We’ve added funky country guitar (5) with PG favorite Brent Mason, along with classic pedal steel styles (5) featuring steel great Doug Jernigan. There are more country songwriter styles (8) that provide intimate, rootsy foundations for storytelling and modern Americana writing. Finally, we have “background soloing” acoustic guitar (12) with Brent Mason — simpler, but still very tasty acoustic lines designed to sit beautifully behind vocals or act as a subtle standalone solo part.
Check out all the 202 new RealTracks (in sets 468-488)!
And, if you are looking for more, the 2026 49-PAK (for $49) includes an impressive collection of 20 bonus RealTracks, featuring exciting and inspiring additions to add to your RealTracks library. You'll get new country-rhythm guitar styles from PG Music favorites Johnny Hiland and Brent Mason, along with modern-pop grooves that capture today’s radio-ready sound! There are also new indie-folk styles with guitar, bass, 6-string bass used as a high-chording instrument, acoustic guitar, and banjo. Plus, dedicated "cymbal fills" RealDrums provide an added layer that work very well with low-key folky styles with other percussion.
The 2026 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2026 49-PAK!
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
With your version 2026 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
- Playable RealTracks Set 5
- RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
- SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
- iOS Android Band-in-a-Box® App
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
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