PG Music Home Forums General Discussion Off-Topic What do you all think of Taxi? Be Honest

I used to operate a limousine service. My regulars knew I was a musician, so they appreciated the name—Roll Star (with a star logo between the two words).

Richard

Well, I know exactly one guy who uses TAXI, the aforementioned Steve Guiles, and TAXI has gotten him placement in several TV shows and commercials.

That said, Steve's abilities are deep and wide and his hook-writing is pretty amazing. Any manner of pop/rock is in his wheelhouse. He is a prolific songwriter. I'm talking 100+ songs a year. As a hobbyist.

Steve is still employed as a middle school teacher - that's his main paying gig.

To say that once TAXI gets you a placement, that it eliminates the need for the service itself because you have a relationship with the end client, that isn't necessarily true. These clients have access to thousands upon thousands of songs as source material and what you were able to provide to fit the mood of a shot of a certain commercial does not mean that you are now going to be employed forever by that client.

I'm thinking of famous song placements for a particular end customer. Volkswagen is pretty well versed in this arena. In the past 15 years or so, there are some brilliant song placements by VW's ad agency ranging from Nick Drake's "Pink Moon" https://youtu.be/BIOW9fLT9eY to Clannad's "Theme from Harry's Game" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KpNzalFKPo to Da Da Da by Trio: https://youtu.be/jdccNAOvPHg to Molly's Chambers by Kings of Leon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKOnYX05btM to Fly By Night by Rush: https://youtu.be/V57v_UlaZP0

Pretty hard to think of a more diverse sounding group of songs placed in commercials. Yet, each song fit the theme and mood of the commercial. I'm guessing they will continue to make great matches.

Anyways, Steve has had pretty decent success with Taxi, and now he's known by Taxi and they consider him a go-to guy for simple straight up pop stuff.

You had mentioned some things to me in some post of songs that I had written and I made the changes that you suggested. I cant remember what songs they where, but you where right. I changed it for the better and it became a better song. If you have the old post of that could you repost it so I can see what song it was, and I will post a link to where it's located? The first draft, and the second draft. Well, I hope you can find this and let me know. Thanks.....

For some of you that missed this, here is a song that I wrote "At The Foot Of The Cross" My verse sounds the same as the chorus, I am thinking about re-writing this because of that flaw in my song. After I took the Coursera course, I noticed this right off the Bat. So you tell me what you think, Should I re-write it and make the course different, or should I just leave it the way that it is, it is a pretty song. Here is the link. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyHBDjLk42Q

Occasionally you have to let one through -- so she or he can say: TAXI helped me, I made it.

Just like most musicians will never be stars, although some will gain some local or regional fame of sorts.... so too with writers.

Out of a few thousand writers, a small handful will write tunes good enough and be in the right place with the right people and turn it into a career. Out of all the TAXI people, there's a small handful who are full time and paying their bills and taxes from writing for film & TV. There are a greater number who are part timers and make a few thousand dollars a year from placements. There's an even larger group with one or two placements and signings..... and who haven't covered their costs at this point quite yet.

Obviously if you're making money and that covers your dues, you would stay. There's a pretty heavy turnover rate in the music publisher/library world..... new ones come and old ones go all the time. Some of the libraries I am signed to have been sold to other companies. I get updates and listing emails from the libraries I am with. That's where I now work on placing my new cues.

There's more than one road to the destination. Taxi is but one of those roads. Call it a toll road if you like.


After thought to edit:

DO the math..... you want to make a full time living writing cues for film & TV? What does that mean? For sake of discussion... lets say $50,000 gross a year. That's reasonable.

With a cue price payout of $5 a play for a short spot in a TV show, that would require 10,000 plays a year or 27.4 plays a day 365 days a year. Throw in a few cues that pay out $200 or more a play and you can reduce the $5 plays a bit. Obviously, to reach that level of plays, you need thousands of cues out there signed, and being used daily. Anything less and you will not be able to pay your bills. So, if you have a few hundred cues, and think you're going to make a steady income.... think again.

The big dollar payouts are normally one time license fees. TAXI loves to advertise them but in all the time with TAXI and even now just getting their emails, I do not think I have ever heard of a single TAXI member scoring one of the big payouts of $25k or more on a national TV commercial.... I might be wrong, but I can't recall hearing that news. So you write a song for a big name car commercial that is going to run nation wide in a publicity campaign. They will buy the rights outright for a one time payday. It might be $25,000 or it might be $5000.... split that with the publisher 50/50 if there's one of those representing the song.... or keep the full amount on a direct to end user deal and split it all with the tax man.... however, those deals are few and far between and are akin to winning the lottery because the competition for those spots is brutal with a foot in the door going to any writers who have already worked with the company in the past.

Got to go to my day gig, which does in fact pay the bills.... TTYAL....

If he is writing hundreds of a songs a year, and he has been with them for years and has gotten "several" placements...



Enough said.



You are misunderstanding that statement. It's saying that you no longer need taxi for THAT client. Why would you? Are you under the impression these end line clients use taxi exclusively?



If he is a "go to guy", I would assume he's not the only person who is decent at what he does. They would have a roster of great writers for their clients. I just really haven't at all heard that to be the case.

Again, I may be wrong. I'm just giving my opinion of what I've seen. Perhaps you have seen much more than I have.

I think Herb about summed it up for me. He made some GREAT points...again in my opinion.

Trapper,

TAXI does a live show about once a week or so that you can watch for free. Watch the ones with Robin Frederick - she literally wrote the best selling book of all time on songwriting. (And just so you know in her book she recommends BIAB.) She also wrote the first definitve book on tv/film songwriting. Watch the videos with Jason Blume and the ones with Suzan Koc. The one with Kara DioGuardi. Rob Chiarelli. Too many good ones to mention. It's a great show. Michael is quite informative and entertaining all on his own. He didn't engineer gold records or build TAXI by being a duffuss or a con artist. These are big time major leaguers sharing their knowledge. There are also videos about what new members can expect, videos with members, videos with screeners, videos to teach you different genres. Watch them when you have 90 mins to spare, then decide for yourself.

Here's the youtube link for TAXI TV Live videos. Click the "more" button at the bottom for more videos. You can also watch on ustream live and see the chatroom but I like the youtube videos because I'm not available when it's live from LA. It'll usually be on youtube by the next day.
https://www.youtube.com/user/taximusic/videos

I am not a member but Ian was. Ian was also a former forum member here who passed away suddenly. (God rest his soul. I still think of him and miss him very much.) Anyway Ian was a member of TAXI. He told me that he absolutely loved it and it made him a stronger songwriter. He had renewed for another year when that terrible accident took his life.

BTW, the LA workshop that comes free with membership - that alone would cost as much as the yearly membership when compared with most other big name workshops. Out of my budget at the moment to fly across country but great deal for those who can afford the airfare, meals and lodging.

Plus 1 to Josie's comments and not to overlook that your chance to actually get a placement increase 100% when you become a member and can actually submit a song....

A few comments....


Yeah, the LA convention is free with your membership... 2 tickets. However, in my case, it was around a thousand dollars for airfare and hotel and food.

NSAI also has a similar event in Nashville. The tickets are not free.... a couple hundred bucks and, you still gotta get there and have a place to stay and eat. I was getting set up to go to one of those as well but the costs were still near a thousand dollars and I was planning to drive the 500 miles. I never did go to that one.


Once you get signed with someone..... that person may not call you back or send you the new listings they have, so, theoretically, you would want to keep membership to pick up those listings.

Yes, there are several libraries who use TAXI members exclusively. 100% of their listing requests go to and through TAXI and they do not accept any submissions of songs from any other place. One of these just happens to be the guy "catherder" who has or had (at that time) a lock on several of the biggest daytime TV shows on the air. He was using just over 100 TAXI members with a handful of those getting 90% of the placements in those shows.

Hahaha....my hair was starting to hurt reading all of this. Now it was worth it.

For the record, there would be nothing wrong with looking at it as in investment, much like college. The college would more than likely never pay you, yet what you learn there may serve you a lifetime.

I'm repeating myself a bit, but here it goes for clarification...

If party A loves your work and wants to work with you, at that point, you get to have direct contact with party A. From that point on, taxi is no longer needed to work with party A.

I'm NOT saying party A no longer will need to use taxi to find additional talent. I'm saying to work with YOU they would not need to.

I'm also NOT saying that YOU will not need to work with taxi for projects from parties B, C, D...you would.

I am simply saying that you and party A would no longer need taxi to work together.



As so it is marketed.

This is what I know. Michael Jackson was paid millions to drink Pepsi in their commercials. Wait...not ACTUALLY drink...give the appearance that he did. He didn't drink Pepsi!

I'm not going to explain endorsement deals as I'm sure you all understand them.

I work day in and day out with people who are "exclusive" but do A LOT of work with people "on the side." They are high level, currently in demand, musicians. Not a musician that toured with a band from the 70's. Musicians who are on tour or record for the musicians you hear when you turn the radio right now.

I'm not saying that happens at taxi, I'm just saying it happens everywhere else in this industry.

I would also like to state, I am not anti-Taxi. They bring some great resources to people who can truly use them. I just wish they were a bit more transparent with how they fund themselves.

I think I will back out of the conversation now, as I feel I am coming across (again) as having no clue what I am talking about.

Write on! (or re-write if necessary)

DAMMIT!! I had my resurgent, back to my youth career all planned out and you just shot me down! No musicians who toured in the 70's??? DAMMIT...

NOW what am I gonna do? What WILL I do???

Bob

Ha! Hang here with me my friend!

I'm not sure how my comment will be taken. Just meant it as they weren't people who USED to tour and now look for side projects. Just saying they are the current "in demand" people doing side projects.

Notice, I did NOT lump myself in as being one of them. I will just say...they make me sound WAY better than I am!

Personally, I am a HUGE fan of the musicians from that era!

Caaron, you have misunderstood nearly the entirety of my post.

While Steve writes hundreds of songs per year, very few are written for the purpose of submitting to TAXI. Steve writes for the joy of it, and if there's something that piques his interest on TAXI that he thinks he can fill, he submits. It's a very small fraction of songs that he writes. Last year, he wrote a whole bunch of songs about Minecraft - for the fun of it.

He might do 10 submissions a year through TAXI - why not ask him yourself? He's had placements in commercials, TV shows. He has a very wide variety of styles. Here's his soundcloud page, you can contact him through there: https://soundcloud.com/newcoolnowmusic

Now, let's get to how TAXI works. It's purpose is not to connect music supervisors with ARTISTS, but rather to connect those folks with SONGS. Songs to fit a particular mood, style, purpose, etc. etc. etc. https://www.taxi.com/industry.php

Just like the paint chip displays at Home Depot give one choice of thousands of potential colors. Once you get a color that you like, you don't even have to use the brand of paint that posted the color. In reality, TAXI is even more like taking an object in to Home Depot to be color matched. The paint chip analogy is more like a music library or licensing service like Tune Society and the like. TAXI takes it one step closer to customization - music supervisor posts a listing looking for a whispery male vocalist with ukulele backing and twee glockenspiel melody doubling, with hand percussion rhythm tracks - and you as the supervisor will get to pick from a bunch of different artists submitting songs fitting that description. Your next placement might be needing a dark symphonic bed with an Enya-like haunting vocal over top.

Music supervisors have little reason or intention to deal repeatedly with an artist - that would be akin to going and picking the same color each time you go to paint your living room, then bedroom, bathroom, kitchen, exterior, etc. This isn't saying a relationship building experience isn't possible, but it's not the main role of music supervision.

Steve is pretty darned versatile as it comes to indie/pop/rock and when he sees a listing like that, he strikes - if he has time. Learning how to correctly match the desire of a listing is one of the things Steve has talked about in the past.

Here's his TAXI page: http://www.taximusic.com/hosting/home.php?artist=sguiles

Take note of his placements on ABC News, Fox network's The Mindy Project, MTV, etc.

I know Steve through two very different channels: 1. I did a review of one of the albums his band, Pushstart Wagon did back in mid 2000's, and then a few years later, we both participate in the February Album Writing Month, and we even did a silly collaboration song about Cheese Pizza, and came to the realization that I had done a review of his band's album a few years earlier.

Quick, anyone reading this thread - name a songwriter you know personally and would consider a friend that makes the bulk of their money writing songs. Very small college of folks that can claim that. The fact that his main paying gig is being a teacher shouldn't be taken as any kind of criticism of his success or failure using TAXI. Steve loves being a teacher. Would he rather have been a rock star? Maybe, but he is pretty passionate about his role as a teacher.

Perhaps TAXI's biggest fault is calling itself an A&R company. Artist & Relations. Not sure it works that way in a traditional understanding of those departments at record companies.

Josie had a great suggestion – listen to what others are submitting.

http://forums.taxi.com/peer-to-peer-f20.html?sid=3a7d804d75f28932ef6736e1ae2fc8c3


Before plonking down the dosh to Taxi, you might want to ask yourself a couple of questions.

“Do I write on this level”? Do I know enough about this side of the business to play in this sandbox? Do my songs grab the listener in the first five seconds? Are my recordings radio-ready? Can I write for a specific listing? Am I delusional?

If you can honestly assess the quality of your “work”, you might save yourself a ton of money. Very few can.

Then, there is always The Starmaker Machine!


Regards,

Bob

Sorry if I did.

I still feel a bit like you are trying to explain to me how Taxi works. I think we just have different views of how it works. I believe your view, according to Taxi, and your friend is correct.

I just have a different view of it is all.

I sort of felt the passion part about your friend coming from a mile a way. I almost stated it before you even mentioned it. I feel a lot of people live there.

IMO there are the...

starving artists

thriving artists

and those who have to support their habit. lol

Believe it or not, I live by a school that has a teacher who retired early from his former job. As stated, he now teaches. He doesn't do it for the money; he does it because it's his passion. That's not someone just saying that either!

I find a lot of people who "don't do their jobs for the money", still collect a paycheck! If that job ends, so does the love affair!

This guy actually works tirelessly. He is there HOURS before the other teachers, and is there many times hours after. Weekends...you name it.

Here is the kicker. He draws NO pay for teaching what-so-ever! In fact, he actually donates A LOT to the computer lab at school both time and financially.

I'm not saying that's the norm, or that most people could ever do that. I'm just saying, I believe THAT guy is really in it because he has a real love for teaching. There is no secondary gain.

Perhaps your friend is similar, in that, it's the reason he writes music? I don't know.

I do know this, if you really love music, and are committed to making a living doing it, you can. There are people on the forum that do that.

So, I will end with this an bow out of the conversation.

All of those who want to stick with or go with Taxi, go for it. If you want my take on it, feel free to PM me. It's not a negative take. As I stated, there are many great tools/resources there.

I hope to see you on the charts, or placed! That would be an awesome thing to celebrate! (To be clear, there is no sarcasm meant here. Seriously, how great would that be able to say "Hey! I know that person")

I forgot to comment on this. I feel this is fantastic advice. Thanks for sharing it!

Caaron,

It did seem like you bagged on him because his main gig is teaching middle school, and you drew a conclusion that his hundreds of songs written per year were for TAXI use and his tens of placements are evidence that TAXI doesn't work.

http://forums.taxi.com/topic129281.html

Again, I think that TAXI's biggest error is calling itself an A&R firm. Song placement, yes, A&R, no.

-Scott