PG Music Home Forums General Discussion Off-Topic GROSSLY off topic - rats - and I REALLY need helpful advice.

Please bear with this long story. It is gross but I need help from anyone who's been through it because until I get this problem solved, I can't do my music.

I heard noise coming from the kitchen and something had chewed a hole under my sink so I patched the hole and then I heard more noise but I couldn't find anything and the noise stopped. I started smelling this repugnant smell at different times of the day but there were no other signs like droppings.

Sadly, I was an idiot. I can't believe how dumb I was and didn't realize what was going on until a rat ran out from the bottom of the dishwasher and sent me screaming out of my kitchen. Now I know that it chewed another hole and must have made a nest behind my dishwasher. I finally found the new hole by shining a flashlight through the crack where the dishwasher sits under the countertop. But all I can see is a hole with an electrical wire hanging right in the middle of it. I've checked inside all the cabinets, behind the refrigerator and moved out the stove which had some signs of insulation being moved otherwise no signs anywhere else.

I got traps from Home Depot and killed two but then a few days later one ran back in when I involuntarily screamed as I saw it coming out. A couple of days later I heard a commotion and went to the kitchen to see a trap trying to be dragged (the trap was too small) back under there - only the broken trap was left behind as I watched a long gross tail slink back in. The way the dishwasher fits into the cabinets, there's a gap between the side cabinets at the floor but it's not big enough to fit any poison in there or under the dishwasher. The large traps fit on the other walls but not under the cabinet overhangs at the floor which is why that trap was too small.

My kitchen has at least six traps set out every day/night and a $40 rat zapper that's being totally ignored. My studio/den is off the kitchen with no door so I've been afraid to be in there although I've found no signs there.

Now it's been several days with no signs or sounds of activity. I don't know what to do. I'm afraid to move the dishwasher out to see what's back there in case the one that got away and the one that was injured are still in there alive or there are more that might run out. The smell is still gross and not as loud but it's not dead animal smell. I want to clean it and disinfect with bleach back there. Plus I need to repair the damage done to the wall and dishwasher.

We have a cat but he's old and incapable of fighting rats. So I'm also concerned about using poison with a cat and all the neighbors around me have dogs. I actually suspect a couple of the neighbors yards is why I have this problem but that's another story....

My nerves are frazzled and the nearest company that specializes in rodent control is 100 miles away. I don't want to pay big money for someone to do what I'm already doing. This is the first time a rat family has chewed it's way inside my house. I had a mouse issue once in TN but we got rid of that fairly quickly. Down here they say there's both roof and norway rats.

I've read about rat control on google until my eyes are bloodshot and I get nauseous. I already know I need to rat proof better outside once they're out. So PLEASE DON'T SCARE ME ANYMORE THAN I ALREADY AM. if you've had experience with this, I'd appreciate some good advice to help me get my kitchen, my studio, and most of all, my peace of mind back.

Honestly, I've considered running away from home but that's not an option.

Thank you for your help. :sad:

Josie,

Everything I have to say on the topic will only scare you more. Not because any of it is true, but because I like sayin' things that scare people. :-)

I'm assuming that the rats are under the house, and they chewed a hole to access the kitchen. This means there are so many down there that they needed more space. Think of them as fuzzy little pioneers moving westward for more land. They probably have guns, but that's a whole 'nother discussion.

I've tried placing signs that say "NO RATS ALLOWED" but the little buggers can't read. And even if they could, they are notoriously disobedient creatures.

And you can't ask for help because as soon as word gets out about the legion of rats living under your house, the health department will come and bulldoze your house.

The really scary thing is that if they can get in your kitchen... they can also get in the bedroom... and probably climb all over you while you sleep. I hear they are drawn by the sound of snoring, just so ya know.

They are almost certainly under the bed. Sorry, but they're rats. Rats have no sense of shame (much like me)

OK, seriously now, some questions:

Full basement? Or crawl space?

If its a crawl space, you might be able to put one end of a vacuum cleaner hose in your car's exhaust, and the other end in the crawl space to gas them. They may not go for other bait, but they can't just ignore carbon monoxide. If you do this, you probably want to stay somewhere else that night (take your pets too) and air out the house when you get back.

Apart from that, continuing with the mechanical traps, D-con type poison and even those sticky sheets is about all you can do. You've had some success already, so you know it works. You have to continue until you get them all.

I'd put the sticky sheets at all of the entrances and exits to your crawl space, and also all around any holes so the rat HAS to step on it if he uses the hole.

In spite of my nonsense above, there's probably only a few, and once you get them all and plug the holes, problem solved!

You might want to try something like this:
http://www.electronicpestcontrolpro.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Store_Code=pestcontrol&Screen=PROD&Category_Code=indoorpestcontrol&Product_Code=EPC-12

I have used a similar product for spiders and it worked quite well. That is until it died about 5 years later!

OK! This is maybe the Best Post Ever! Lines like "This means there are so many down there that they needed more space." and "probably climb all over you while you sleep" are still cracking me up!!!

OK, I know you are more serious in this post but WTF??? Are you seriously suggesting someone pump car exhaust into their house???

To anyone reading this: DON'T DO THIS!!! YOU MAY DIE!

We had one under our house.

There's no easy or "nice" fix.

I set out rat poison and the little sucker ate it up. Devoured enough to kill 12 rats or nearly 100 mice.

The thing is.... once it dies, you really, really need to find it as quickly as possible and get it out. It took several weeks for the stench to abate.

That's why it might be a good idea to let the pro's handle the problem if you're squeamish about crawling under the house and seeking the source of the odor and then dragging it out. Double trouble if it crawls up in a wall or under the cabinets to expire.


Once you get it out, repair all the holes and ways in. Easier to keep them out than to try to extricate them once they're in.

Fortunately, our visitor did not have a family. It was a loner and that was still a huge problem.

My first course of action would be to call an exterminator, not try to fix this myself. They know all the "rat tricks" about how they come and go and can do a much better job than you guessing that you know all the entry points and such. Whatever they charge you, it's well worth it to get it behind you.

And write a song about it. Maybe call it "Come And Rat Me Out".

And, they will not attack you. Heck if they had hair on their tails they'd be right cute. In your situation I'd trap and release them...but I'm weird like that with animals. So...I'd also suggest getting a pro.

Aren't rats clever intelligent little animals some people even keep them as pets, a few on show in my local pet shop.

Never had them in house though one time several years ago I would wake up every morning and see a few wasps on floor, couldn't figure out how they got in until Pest Control told me to stand outside house in late afternoon and I would see them swarming around their nest way up in the roof.

The pest control man came out just to check without his protective clothing and was looking into closet in roof space trying to figure out exactly where they were, I said "maybe If I give you an old broom shaft you can poke around in there"

"I have done some silly things in my life" he said "but poking around a wasps nest with a broom shaft would be the silliest"

He came back the next day all suited up and sprayed the powder stuff in, which got rid of them.

Hope you get your pet problem (ah slip of the tongue I mean pest problem) sorted out soon Josie.

Musiclover

Just about any kind of fumigation involves filling the house with something poisonous. The trick is, DON'T STICK AROUND while its in the air!

And unlike a lot of poisons that are particulate and coat the walls and ductwork unless you get it off, CO is just a gas that blows away if you leave the windows open.

I'd guess that most people take a vacation while their house is being fumigated. And it works pretty quickly. A weekend excursion would be long enough.

I only suggested it because Josie said she didn't want to hire a pro. I agree with everybody who advised calling somebody who does it for a living.

During a rat plague in my home town in the early 60's, my father managed to jam a rat between a cupboard door and it's frame. The rat squealed for quite a while before it managed to escape.

Overnight ALL the rats left and we never saw another one right up to when they sold the building in the late 70's.

Sooo, maybe catch one and make it squeal for a while???

Josie,

I recently retired from a 33 year career in Public Health which included work in all major areas of disease control including control of Disease Vectors such as rats. I think I can share a few things with you that won't scare you more and can help you get a handle on your problem.

1. It is unlikely that the rats are nesting inside of your house. Rats typically dig dens in the ground (exception would be roof rats) and they take excursions out for food usually not more than 100 feet from the den. Mice usually nest inside the house. Mice of course are much smaller than rats.

2. Before you do anything else, the trick to controlling rats is to identify the food source because that is what caused them to come live with you. Don't even think about poisoning them before you do this because as long as their primary food source is available, they won't usually take any kind of bait. They also are not going to have any incentive to leave until their food source dries up.

3. The usual suspects for food sources in and around a residence are unsecured household garbage, pet food, pet droppings, fruit and nut trees, and seeds in bird feeders. Pet food should be taken up if not eaten immediately. Rats get lots of good nutrition from dog dishes and dog droppings in the yard. If you must have bird feeders there are devices to keep rats from climbing up to the seeds. If you have fruit trees, get the fallen fruit picked up. It is important to remove ALL potential food sources and keep them cleaned up. Don't neglect cooperating with your neighbors because if the food source is there, and you don't get the source removed, you will never, NEVER, get rid of your rats.

4. Rats are mostly nocturnal, so if you are seeing them during the day it usually means that the population has gotten so large that some are getting forced out of the nests. A large population indicates that there is A LOT OF FOOD somewhere for them.

5. Rats usually try to keep their whiskers in contact with a wall, so you can generally find run marks on the wall from the grease deposited from the body hair. These runs when identified are where you need to place your heavy duty rat glue traps and your bait.

6. Look outside for the dens. They are just going to be holes in the ground, often near the house. If you can identify the dens, then you can place some rat poison in them, but only do this after you have completely deprived them of their food source for at least 3 days. Be careful with poison placement. You don't want to poison the pets and the kids. As the bait gets eaten that you have placed on the runs and at the dens, replace it. It usually takes about 3 doses to kill a large rat. There are bait boxes that you can place the poison in that allows the rats access but limits access to larger animals.

7. Your local Health Department may have people who will come to your home for free and help you identify food sources and dens. After you get the food sources secured they will place poison near the den for you. These services are usually free. Look for VECTOR CONTROL under your local Health Department listings or call the Health Department's information desk and ask if they have a rat control division. Professional exterminators usually cost a lot and seldom do as good of a job. Also getting the Health Department involved means that if the food source is identified and found to be on your neighbor's property, they have the authority to go next door and tell them to get it cleaned up.

8. It usually takes a regimen of both trapping and poisoning along with food source removal to get a rat problem under control in a relatively short time.

This is getting a bit long so if you have specific questions ask here or shoot me an email: smithkf51@comcast.net

Hope this helps.

Josie,

A couple of decades ago I bought an ultrasonic device that just plugs into an electrical socket. (I see that Mario has given you a link to one such device.) It's fantastic. I've never had mice, rats, possums, birds in eaves, etc., since. It takes a couple of weeks for the animals to work out that it's more comfortable not to be near the house. After that, they stay away and you'll never be plagued again.

Here are some on Amazon...

Ultrasonic Pest Repellers

Regards,
Noel

Thank you guys. No crawl space - slab foundation. Somehow it got in the wall and chewed it's way in through the wall. One of my backyard neighbors has lots of citrus trees so I'm thinking it could be a roof rat that sneaked in and fell in the wall - I could be wrong. I wish I'd took a picture of one I trapped.

Pat, I'm too chicken to try the car exhaust. I guess I'll stick it out with the traps and the zapper for a few more days and hope for the best.

Mario, I haven't tried a repelling sound device, from the research I've seen they don't work well for rats.

Bud, As an animal lover I feel bad about killing them. The rat zapper will electrocute them if they'll go in it which is the most humane way I could find, followed by the snap traps.

Eddie, If i can't get my nerve up to move out the dishwasher then I'll have to call somebody but I'm trying to save that money for paying to get all the trees trimmed back far enough that nothing else can ever jump on the roof and around here tree trimmers are expensive. I figure even if this one came in some other way, at least that's one entry point made more difficult in the future. Maybe just talking to a pro might be helpful. I'm going to try.

Musiclover - these are wild not pet rats - they are dirty, stinky, and can make me sick. They destroyed my wall to get in here and had they chewed the wire in that hole my house could've burned down. I don't like killing them but I have no choice. I've never been in a situation like this before. I think it's hard to imagine and appreciate until it happens to a person or their wife. Believe me I wish they'd just leave on their own.

Herb - We had a squirrel we think - could've been something else - die in the wall after the hurricane when the blue tarp was covering our smashed in roof. The smell was indescribably horrid and then came the flies. So you're right on all points. And I hate to admit it but if I could get the poison in that hole or under the dishwasher where I could tell if it's being eaten I'm about desperate enough to try it and face the consequences.

I really appreciate everyone's concern. It's hard to admit this problem got in my house even among friends...but I am trying to find the humor in it somewhere. I'm becoming an expert on microwave dinners.

Here's hoping for the best and soon.

Thanks again to each of you.

Lawrie,

I haven't seen anything since the last one got injured and escaped the trap. Before that the last one that got trapped fought and squealed for all it was worth - I was shaking like a leaf from hearing it myself until it finally died. Then I switched to larger traps.

Your family was very lucky and I hope my luck is that good.

That is at least one food source for your unwanted guests.

Thank you so much Keith! I am going to call the health department and see if I can get some help because I am surrounded by neighbors with citrus trees, dogs fed outside, bird feeders, bird baths, and one has a wood pile outside on an old shed porch. I told one of the neighbors I was eeeing rats and instead of taking down their bird feeder they just started turning their outside lights on at night.

I have removed all the inside sources of food no more dry cat food left out and cat bowl washed. My outside garbage is secure. I'm the only one with no outdoor pets in the backyard so I guess my yard is the safe haven after they've munched around the neighborhood and they found a way in my house.

Thank you so much for your email and I may be contacting you when I can get to my real computer - it's very hard to type on this little thing I'm using for web access in the living room.

That's not been my experience. I'm a huge fan of the devices and have been using this form of pest repeller for a long time. My repeller has two frequency settings and periodically I just change from one to the other.

I used to live in the country, surrounded by very-close-proximity bush, trees and shubbery. Rats, possums, mice, birds were always a problem. I bought one of these devices just to try it out because it was clean. Nothing seemed to happen at first. I could still hear things in the roof. Then, around two weeks later, I noticed that all internal wanderings had ceased. They never came back.

Thought I'd pass on my thoughts in case they're of value...

Noel

Noel,

Thank you. I'll give them another look. Can you recommend a specific model or brand that you use?