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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,590
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Expert
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,590 |
Maybe you need to tell them about how commercial songs are made in studios that they listen to on the radio/tv etc. When was the last time they heard a busker doing hard tuning with chorus and delay on purpose?!:-)
Windows 10 Home 20H2 Build 19042.487
BIAB 2021 (Build 818)
Intel(R) Core(TM), i3-4160, CPU @3.60 GHz RAM 16 GB, 64 Bit X64-based processor
Zoom UAC-2 (USB 3 interface-built in midi)
VoiceLive 3 Extreme, Sputnik Valve Condenser Mic
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Mario - like you, I'm not trying to "start a war"... but.. those pedal steel examples sound like ... good MIDI representations of pedal steel, not like a real pedal steel. It - and a good fiddle solo - are still the things that I have never heard "done right" via MIDI. Your sax/wind controller stuff - EXCELLENT - as good as real... some things can be done - you've proved that... respectfully, floyd btw... in fact... it was the never-ending search for "how do I get pedal steel and fiddle (that sounds "real") in my songs at home" that lead me to BIAB 3 years ago. End of search. I echo Floyd's comments. The end of my search was BB. Once I heard the steel guitar it was mission accomplished. I have yet to find any VST that replicates certain instruments properly. Fiddle and Steel are just 2 that I deal with in my music. Horns are also notoriously hard to replicate with midi. There are several sample packs now that do articulate the horns better. Guitar synths are also coming along nicely. However, to this point in time, BiaB and RB are the only products on the market that do fiddle and steel properly. I had a song of mine posted in the cakewalk forum. It had a fiddle fill or perhaps a solo in it... I don't recall which song it was. But, a guy who ran a studio for a living, and is a highly respected contributor in the CW forums commented on the song regarding the fiddle solo. His comment was, "Man, that sounds so real I can hear the rosin on the bow and the strings"...... you can not get that kind of sound with a fiddle VST using midi I don't care how long you set and program the midi note control parameters. On the wavelore steel VST..... it sounds like a bad midi piano that lets you bend the notes. 4 years ago I had this discussion: http://forum.cakewalk.com/Pedal-Steel-Guitar-Synth-m2356828.aspx
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jun 2006
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OP
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Hi folks thanks for the support! Didnt need it really - I'm a bit evangelical over our awesome RTs - but my friend in SA is utterly convinced that it is all midi. Grr! SO - I've set him a task.  I've sent him one of my ALL RT SGU's and simply asked him to send me back the midi file he makes from it.  He may be some time!!! Cheers ian I'm still waiting!! Ian BTW - I'm still waiting!!!lol! Ian
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2010
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Expert
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Expert
Joined: Jan 2010
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On the wavelore steel VST..... it sounds like a bad midi piano that lets you bend the notes. So I'm not the only one who has the impression it is a piano trying to sound like a steel guitar.
Desktop; i7-2600k, 8 GB mem., Win 10 Pro, BIAB 2017; RB 2017 - latest build
Laptop: i5-2410M, 4 GB mem, Win 10 Pro, BIAB 2017; RB 2017 - latest build
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Apr 2009
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On the wavelore steel VST..... it sounds like a bad midi piano that lets you bend the notes. So I'm not the only one who has the impression it is a piano trying to sound like a steel guitar. lol
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Apr 2013
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On the wavelore steel VST..... it sounds like a bad midi piano that lets you bend the notes. So I'm not the only one who has the impression it is a piano trying to sound like a steel guitar. Here's the same setup (Kontakt and keyboard input) by a guy with a little more technological ability it appears. Gary White - Wavelore Pedal Steel Demo His demo, while still not perfect, is the best midi Pedal steel I've heard. The actual demo starts around 1:32 but it is worthwhile to listen to the entire video if you have time. He gives a good explanation of the scripting and midi programming involved to create the sound.
Last edited by c_fogle; 09/20/15 02:35 PM.
BIAB 2025:RB 2025, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,849
Veteran
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Veteran
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Posts: 8,849 |
BIAB 2025:RB 2025, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 430
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 430 |
Hi Ian,
Tell your friend that I live in Benoni in South Africa and if he comes to visit me I will show him the source files on my PC and demo for him how its done...
Henry..
I'm doing allright for Country Trash ....
I used to care, but things have changed (Bob Dylan)
BIAB 2026W + RB
M-Audio FastTrack C600, Rode NT2-A
Digitech VoiceLive 4
Epiphone Sheraton, Ibanez 12str, Washburn 6str, Cort 6Str Nylon
Yanagisawa Tenor Sax
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,808
Veteran
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On the wavelore steel VST..... it sounds like a bad midi piano that lets you bend the notes. So I'm not the only one who has the impression it is a piano trying to sound like a steel guitar. Here's the same setup (Kontakt and keyboard input) by a guy with a little more technological ability it appears. Gary White - Wavelore Pedal Steel Demo His demo, while still not perfect, is the best midi Pedal steel I've heard. The actual demo starts around 1:32 but it is worthwhile to listen to the entire video if you have time. He gives a good explanation of the scripting and midi programming involved to create the sound. Yeah... imagine the learning curve. You have to first and foremost, be fairly proficient with playing a keyboard. Then, you need to understand all the things he's discussing such as the neck positions and what you can and cannot do at each. It never shows in this video what he had to do on the keyboard to record this stuff in to the midi track. Yeah, it sounds much better than the wavelore demo's. You would think the factory demo would have been done better, huh? I did see a video a few years ago where you could see what the player was doing on the keys.... Sorry, I could not find it. It was very well done and the audio sounded like a steel guitar. It almost convinced me to buy it and try it until about that same time I discovered that BB/RB also did steel, and PG was offering a 100% MBG..... Wavelore was not. They have a free trial version. As I recall, there was little documentation with it. playing around with it in my DAW, I couldn't get that clean steel sound. Heck it might still be in the laptop. The good side to the wavelore is, if you can play keys well enough, and can get the steel player mindset, the possibility exists to play some specific melody lines. That's something that RB will not do. However, for my purposes, the steel in my tunes essentially need to do fills and the occasional solo, and BB/RB does that kind of thing extremely well. So far, I have not had the absolute need for a steel to play the melody. Anyway.... 2 more of my cents
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,944
PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,944 |
>>> it was "suggested" that these are not HUMAN people playing REAL guitars, pianos, accordions etc etc but very very good midi. None of it is ACTUAL, its ALL midi, whether its called a Real Track or not.
Yes, the RealTracks and RealDrums are real people playing real instruments. Even the pianos are real - we record on a Yamaha Disklavier Grand piano - this has the advantage of recording the notes used - but it is the audio recording that we use. Out of the 1,500 RealTracks that we've done, a few are intended to be synth sounds - and those are recorded on a synth of course, because there is no "real instrument" for those.
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Apr 2013
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>>> it was "suggested" that these are not HUMAN people playing REAL guitars, pianos, accordions etc etc but very very good midi. None of it is ACTUAL, its ALL midi, whether its called a Real Track or not.
Yes, the RealTracks and RealDrums are real people playing real instruments. Even the pianos are real - we record on a Yamaha Disklavier Grand piano - this has the advantage of recording the notes used - but it is the audio recording that we use. Out of the 1,500 RealTracks that we've done, a few are intended to be synth sounds - and those are recorded on a synth of course, because there is no "real instrument" for those.
I imagine it has to be somewhat rewarding to have a product that even professionals think it's too good to be true and real but in the end, it really is that good and is actually real.
Last edited by c_fogle; 09/22/15 07:51 AM. Reason: corrected spelling error
BIAB 2025:RB 2025, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,250
Veteran
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OP
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Posts: 2,250 |
>>> it was "suggested" that these are not HUMAN people playing REAL guitars, pianos, accordions etc etc but very very good midi. None of it is ACTUAL, its ALL midi, whether its called a Real Track or not.
Yes, the RealTracks and RealDrums are real people playing real instruments. Even the pianos are real - we record on a Yamaha Disklavier Grand piano - this has the advantage of recording the notes used - but it is the audio recording that we use. Out of the 1,500 RealTracks that we've done, a few are intended to be synth sounds - and those are recorded on a synth of course, because there is no "real instrument" for those.
I imagine it has to be somewhat rewarding to have a product that even professionals thing it's too good to be true and real but in the end, it really is that good and is actually real. Thank you for taking time to repsond, Peter. C Fogle - your quote is spot on! I guess where my SA friend is coming from is that he is seeing midi files for some, I guess, Piano files when he transfers them to RB for further work and so has come to the conclusion that they ALL must be like that. Also - can anyone confirm that some RD tracks are or are not recorded using electronic drums sets, as he says he is sure that some RDs have midi files available? I think he been drinking too much "Home Brew"!! lol! regards and thank you for all the input from everyone. Ian
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Peter Gannon mentioned somw time ago that RealDrums are recorded to stereo files and the midi is transcribed by a human that is listening to the stereo files.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Peter Gannon mentioned somw time ago that RealDrums are recorded to stereo files and the midi is transcribed by a human that is listening to the stereo files. Poor Man!!  I wonder what you have to have done wrong that day to get THAT job!!??  Ian
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Aug 2011
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Expert
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Everything should have midi triggers on to record midi also not just the Yamaha piano, these can be used for realcharts, realdrumcharts and virtual instruments.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Update to Build 10 of RealBand® 2026 for Windows®!
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