|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
|
eddie1261
Unregistered
|
|
eddie1261
Unregistered
|
I was taught a long time ago about chord formulas. The basic thing of it is that no matter what note you play on your piano you can count the half steps in the formula to make your chord.
For example, if you play a C, that becomes 0. To make a major chord the formula is 0-2-1-1 1/2, so with C being 0, you count up 2 half steps (0, half, one, one and a half, two) and land on the E. Then the E becomes 0 and you count 1 1/2 (0, half, one , one and a half) and land on G. Add another 1 1/2 for a dominant 7th. Minor is 0-1 1/2-2. Again add another 1 1/2 for a minor 7.
And so forth. Did anybody else have a teacher who taught that method? Most teachers seem to teach "Major = 1,3,5, 1, b3, 5" and so forth. My guy actually taught me the half step method.
Last edited by eddie1261; 10/25/15 07:35 AM. Reason: typos
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,125
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,125 |
Well, not me Eddie. I learned all the chords and their inversions in more-or-less the 1-3-5 method. I hadn't heard of this method until now.
I didn't really understand the statement: "so with C being 0, you count up 2 half steps (0, half, one, one and a half, two) and land on the E. "
If C is 0 and you count up 2 half steps you wind up on D, surely? (C=0, first 1/2 step up is C#, 2nd half step up is D)
I think I like my method better...
Trev
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,612
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,612 |
The formula of counting half-steps is used in defining scales, but I never heard it used for chords.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
|
eddie1261
Unregistered
|
|
eddie1261
Unregistered
|
That is really old school teaching and remember I was short of 5 years old when I started. My teacher thought it would be easier on all of us young students to just count half steps. I mean, to a kid not yet 5, to look at the keyboard, and center my view on C, E is not the 3rd key up from the C. There are 2 black keys in there so E is the 5th key up from the C. This was his way of teaching half steps from whole steps. It wasn't "the third in the scale" because at that age, just sitting at a piano on day 1, I didn't know what a C scale was.
So, ANY key you start on, C, F, Ab.... that key is "zero" and you count your half steps from there to figure out that in Ab, C is the third in that scale.
It worked out well for me. Just like "5 lines and 4 spaces". My first question, and I remember this almost 60 years later, was "But what about the big space under and over those lines? Those are spaces too, aren't they? Really big spaces." And he did not let me touch a piano until I knew that stuff. I sat at a plastic molded keyboard and he would point to a dot drawn on staff paper on a blackboard and I had to show him where on that little keyboard the note was that he was pointing to. 6 weeks of that. Then we moved to "If you are playing in D, point to D, and I say move to the 4th, what is the next chord?" He completely BEAT theory into my head for almost about 10 weeks before I could move to an instrument that made sound. And then the ear training started where for the last 15 minutes of my hour he would play a note , with my back turned, and say "Okay. Can you tell me what that note is?" And if I got it right (40% of the time back then) he would play another note and make me identify it. Early lessons were always perfect intervals. Root, 5th, back to root, 6th, dominant 7th, back to root, then 4th.... He had a unique way of teaching and it varied from student to student. I still have at least close to perfect pitch, for sure I have relative pitch. I took lessons from him for 5 years and we often didn't play. We just talked and looked at sheet music and identified more and more complex notation. Tied notes, what the Italian stuff meant.... 7 years old then and learning terms like forte, pianissimo, fermata, grave.... he was intense. Old gruff German guy who I learned later in life was a marshmallow filled teddy bear.
But I digress, as I often will..... That's where I learned chord formulas.
Last edited by eddie1261; 10/25/15 07:23 PM. Reason: typos
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913 |
Eddie, I just recently learned this type of thing for scales in the Jazz Improvisation course at Berklee. Someone here pointed me to the Jamey Aebersold freebie .pdf, and the scales thing starts at page 13 or so. There's a direct connection, of course, between the scales and the chords. One of my piano teachers taught it similarly to what you describe particularly for chord theory. But she related it to intervals and how many half steps were in the intervals. -Scott Jamey Aebersold reference here btw: http://www.jazzbooks.com/mm5/download/FQBK-handbook.pdf
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,509
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,509 |
I've never heard of this before.
I was taught intervals for scales, and learned them first - major and the family of minor scales.
Then 135 + extensions.
But I can see where the formula is a good tool.
There is more than one right way to do most things.
Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 716
Journeyman
|
|
Journeyman
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 716 |
The half step method is used in pitch-class set theory in atonal music but unless you're into that in a big way most people get by with 1, b3, 5 rather than 0,3,7.
I guess the emphasis in modernist music is on the chromatic scale rather than diatonic reference points and the method allows you to see the relative size of intervals measured by a common unit from a given tonic note.
In Schenker's view this allows you to make a connection between C, Eb G and C E G since the distance in half steps between E and G is equal to that of C and Eb, while both chords end in 7 half steps (G).
That comes more into it's own when you consider sets like C Db F# and C F F# which are linked in the same way. Its like saying a b2nd followed by a p4th is in the same family as a P4th followed by a b2nd; it's just in the reverse order.
Alan
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 24,906
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 24,906 |
I have never heard of this method before however I can see value in it.
I was also taught intervals, scales (major and minor) then how to form chords from a major scale, i.e. a minor scale consists of 1, b3, 5 of a major scale, etc.
Life is short so make sure you spend as much time as possible on the Internet arguing with strangers.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 24,906
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 24,906 |
Eddie, I just recently learned this type of thing for scales in the Jazz Improvisation course at Berklee. Someone here pointed me to the Jamey Aebersold freebie .pdf, and the scales thing starts at page 13 or so. There's a direct connection, of course, between the scales and the chords. One of my piano teachers taught it similarly to what you describe particularly for chord theory. But she related it to intervals and how many half steps were in the intervals. -Scott Jamey Aebersold reference here btw: http://www.jazzbooks.com/mm5/download/FQBK-handbook.pdf Scott, thank you so much for sharing this. I DLed it so that I could not only read it but also to send to a couple of musician friends.
Life is short so make sure you spend as much time as possible on the Internet arguing with strangers.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,980
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,980 |
nope.
I understand theory,,, the steps and halfs and such but don't use it in any meaningful way to construct chords.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 10/26/15 07:30 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913 |
Wait a minute: Nobody else learned that a diminished chord was two minor intervals put side by side and what not? And that a minor interval was 3 half steps etc.?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,610
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,610 |
Wait a minute: Nobody else learned that a diminished chord was two minor intervals put side by side and what not? And that a minor interval was 3 half steps etc.? You mean minor 3rd intervals. That was one of the ways I learned. Mostly by memorizing and transposing though.
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913 |
Yes Ray, that is what I meant. Augmented is two major third intervals, etc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,987
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,987 |
Scott, your mailbox is full. Please PM me.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
|
eddie1261
Unregistered
|
|
eddie1261
Unregistered
|
I was also taught intervals, scales (major and minor) then how to form chords from a major scale, i.e. a minor scale consists of 1, b3, 5 of a major scale, etc. The point is that I was not even 5 years old yet and had never sat at a piano to KNOW scales and intervals. As I learned "whole whole half, whole whole whole half" made a scale, then I could start. To tell a kid 2 months short that "Oh a major chord is just 1-3-5", what does that mean? So for me, once I knew half steps, those formulas, all based on half steps, allowed me to learn chords quicker. Same church, different hymnal. 1-3-5 mean nothing to me at that age, but I could count 0, 1/2, 1, 1&1/2, etc. That meant that no matter what key I started at, I could make a major chord with no regard to white and black keys, by knowing 0-2-1&1/2. I didn't have to know that G has 1 sharp and Ab has 4 flats, because remember, I had no idea what a sharp and a flat was yet. Again, same church, different hymnal.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,612
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,612 |
Hi Eddie. I don't think anyone is arguing with you. It seems a reasonable way to introduce theory to a child. You had asked if anyone else learned that way and apparently none of us did, but that doesn't mean there is no merit in the method you describe. I found it intriguing.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 483
Journeyman
|
|
Journeyman
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 483 |
If the topic is just chords I figured out early on as a young player (sax) that 3 chromatic steps (or 1/2 steps) is minor and 4 is major and that by combining them you can create maj. minor, aug. dim. chords. Then by adding a 7th 1 half step or 2 half steps below the octave gave me a pretty basic way to understand chords as a 10 yr. old.
Although I am a very good sight reader, I can play an entire gig playing by ear most likely from learning to improvise by intervals.
I guess there is no one "best" way to learn.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,509
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,509 |
As I said before, there is more than one right way to do almost anything.
Different minds retain things if shown in different ways. Perhaps both ways should be taught, and that way the student will retain either the way he/she assimilates it the best or perhaps both to use whichever tool is appropriate for any particular situation.
Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Last Chance! The Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® Special Ends Today (May 31, 2026) at 11:59pm PDT!
Time really is running out! Save up to 50% on Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® upgrades and receive a FREE Bonus PAK—only when you order by 11:59 PM PDT today!
We've added many major new features and new content in a redesigned Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
Version 2026 introduces a modernized GUI redesign across the program, with updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, and a new Dark Mode option. There’s also a new side toolbar for quicker access to commonly used windows, and the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, making it easier to customize your workspace.
Another exciting new addition is the amazing new AI-Notes feature, which can transcribe polyphonic audio into MIDI. View the results in notation or play them back as MIDI, and choose whether to transcribe an entire track or transcribe specific parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®.
There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, and much more!
Upgrade your Band-in-a-Box for Mac® to save up to 50% on most Band-in-a-Box® 2026 upgrade packages!
Plus, when you order your Band-in-a-Box® 2026 Mac upgrade during our special, you'll receive a Free Bonus PAK of exciting new add-ons.
If you need any help deciding which package is the best option for you, just let us know. We are here to help!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 Mac Special Offers Extended Until May 31st!
Good news- we've extended our Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® special offers until May 31, 2026!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 is packed with major new features, enhancements, and an incredible lineup of new content! The program now sports a sleek, modern GUI redesign across the entire interface, including updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, a new dark mode option, and more. The brand-new side toolbar provides quicker access to key windows, while the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, creating a flexible, clutter-free workspace. We have an amazing new “AI-Notes” feature. This transcribes polyphonic audio into MIDI so you can view it in notation or play it back as MIDI. You can transcribe an entire track (all pitched instruments and drums) or focus on individual parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, and much more!
There are over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®.
When you order purchase Band-in-a-Box® 2026 before 11:59 PM PDT on May 31st, you'll also receive a Free Bonus PAK packed with exciting new add-ons.
Check out the Band-in-a-Box® for Mac packages page to find the best package for you.
Holiday Weekend Hours
It's Victoria Day Long Weekend in Canada. Our Customer Service hours are:
Saturday, May 16: Closed
Sunday, May 17: Closed
Monday, May 18: 8:00am - 4:00pm
Regular hours resume Tuesday, May 19th!
Today's the Last Day of the Band-in-a-Box 2026® for Mac Special!
Order before 11:59pm PDT today (May 15, 2026) to save up to 50% off your Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® upgrade and receive a FREE Bonus PAK loaded with great new Add-ons to use with this new version!
Don't wait - order today!
Check out all the new features in the redesigned Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac - Special Offers End at 11:59pm PDT on Friday, May 15th, 2026!
Order before 11:59pm PDT on Friday, May 15th and SAVE up to 50% on most Band-in-a-Box® version 2026 for Mac Upgrade packages... and that's not all! With your version 2026 for Mac purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks... that's 222 NEW RealTracks available with version Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac!
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® today for as little as $49! Check out the Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all available purchase options.
Learn more about the Free Bonus PAK and 49-PAK here.
If you have any questions about which package is the best option for you, just let us know. We're here to help!
202 New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2026!
With Band-in-a-Box® 2026, we've released 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 468-488) in a variety of genres—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Funk & World (Sets 468-475):
Our new jazz, funk & blues RealTracks include a groovin’ collection of RealTracks and RealDrums! These include more requested “soul jazz” RealTracks featuring artists Neil Swainson (bass), Charles Treadway (organ), Brent Mason (guitar), and Wes Little (drums). There are new “smooth jazz” styles (4), which include a RealTracks first: muted trumpet, as well as slick new smooth jazz brushes options for drums. Blues lovers will be thrilled—there are more “classic acoustic blues” styles, including guitar (5), bass (4), and drums (10) with blues master Colin Linden, featuring understated and tasty background acoustic soloing, plus brushes drums and acoustic bass. There are also new electric blues RealTracks, including electric blues with PG favorite Johnny Hiland (3) and soulful electric slide guitar from Colin Linden (4). If you love funk & gospel, there are great new options this year, including gospel organ (3) from Charles Treadway, as well as new funk, tango, and rock ’n’ roll drums (3) and bass (1). And for big, bold arrangements, we have uptempo soul horns (4) featuring a three-part hip horn section with options for a full mix or stems of each individual horn — plus an accompanying rhythm section (4) of drums, bass, guitar, and electric piano!
Rock & Pop (Sets 476–482):
Our new rock & pop RealTracks bring a powerful mix of requested favorites, fresh genres, and modern chart-inspired styles! We have more of our popular “Producer Layered Acoustic Guitars (15)” featuring Band-in-a-Box favorite Brent Mason. We’ve continued our much-requested disco styles (10), and added new Celtic guitar (5) with a more basic, accessible approach than our previous Drop-D or DADGAD offerings. There are also highly requested yacht rock styles (17), inspired by the smooth, polished soft-rock sound of the late ’70s and early ’80s — laid-back grooves, silky electric pianos, warm textures, elegant harmonic movement, and pristine production aesthetics. Fans of heavier styles will love our new glam metal (13), capturing the flashy, high-energy sound of ’80s arena-ready guitar rock. We also have a set of rootsy modern-folk rock (18), with a warm, organic sound combining contemporary folk textures and driving acoustic strumming. And we’ve added lots of new modern pop styles (16) — the kinds of sounds you’re hearing on the radio today, featuring exciting new drums, synths, and cutting-edge RealTracks arrangements.
Country, & Americana (Sets 483–488):
Our new country & Americana RealTracks deliver a rich collection of acoustic, electric, and roots-inspired styles! We have new country pop (9) with legendary guitarist Brent Mason. There is also a potpourri (14) of bouzouki, guitars, banjo, and more, perfect for adding texture and character to contemporary acoustic arrangements. We’ve added funky country guitar (5) with PG favorite Brent Mason, along with classic pedal steel styles (5) featuring steel great Doug Jernigan. There are more country songwriter styles (8) that provide intimate, rootsy foundations for storytelling and modern Americana writing. Finally, we have “background soloing” acoustic guitar (12) with Brent Mason — simpler, but still very tasty acoustic lines designed to sit beautifully behind vocals or act as a subtle standalone solo part.
Check out all the 202 new RealTracks (in sets 468-488)!
And, if you are looking for more, the 2026 49-PAK (for $49) includes an impressive collection of 20 bonus RealTracks, featuring exciting and inspiring additions to add to your RealTracks library. You'll get new country-rhythm guitar styles from PG Music favorites Johnny Hiland and Brent Mason, along with modern-pop grooves that capture today’s radio-ready sound! There are also new indie-folk styles with guitar, bass, 6-string bass used as a high-chording instrument, acoustic guitar, and banjo. Plus, dedicated "cymbal fills" RealDrums provide an added layer that work very well with low-key folky styles with other percussion.
The 2026 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2026 49-PAK!
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
With your version 2026 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
- Playable RealTracks Set 5
- RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
- SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
- iOS Android Band-in-a-Box® App
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums57
Topics86,438
Posts805,127
Members40,121
| |
Most Online64,515
Apr 8th, 2026
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean