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Joined: Aug 2013
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OP
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I know this is probably been stated a zillion times but I went back 15 pages and didn't find it so if it has been stated, then consider this a bump.
The most frustrating limitation of BiaB for me is the chord entry screen itself. We are limited to a maximum of 4 single chord entries per measure. In most cases that has been sufficient for my needs and I'm sure for many others as well.
However, chords don't always change "on the beat". Sometimes we want a chord change on an upbeat, for example. I find this especially true more for rests than for actual sounded chords but it applies either way.
I would love to see the GUI reworked to allow for at least 1/8th note chord entry. Sixteenths would be cool too but eighths would be great. Most sequencers allow for this kind of event entry and honestly would it be so difficult for PG to rework the GUI to do this? To keep things clean they could even maintain the current look but allow the user to click into a measure and have it to expand further in another window or something.
And yes, I know you can get creative and play with the tempo and double-time features, etc to get around the limitations but how much easier would it be if you didn't HAVE to?
And what about accenting the beats? That would be helpful as well.
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Welcome to the forum!
Yes, the ability to have more than four chords per bar has been requested many times so the desire is well known. Place my vote on the side of the line that would like to see it happen. I also believe it will happen somewhere down the road.
But, to play devil's advocate for a moment, I don't agree with your reason why. While I agree most DAWs have eighth or sixteenth note capability, so what? BiaB is not a DAW, it is an auto accompany tool. PowerTracks is PG Music's DAW.
Jim Fogle - 2025 BiaB (Build 1128) RB (Build 5) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk Sonar - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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... PowerTracks is PG Music's DAW. And so is RealBand!
BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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... PowerTracks is PG Music's DAW. And so is RealBand! So very true VideoTrack.
Jim Fogle - 2025 BiaB (Build 1128) RB (Build 5) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk Sonar - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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OP
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Thank you for the welcome. I appreciate it.
I wasn't really referring so much to DAWs as sequencers but old-fashioned sequencers themselves. While I know such features as Real Tracks aren't MIDI, I think if such chord entry is possible on such archaic machines, then surely PG can find a way to make it happen in 2016.
Besides it really shouldn't be so hard to replace the current 4 bar entry system with an 8 bar one. The only snag I can think of (since I'm not sure of the algorithm in the first place) is that it may conflict with some of the previously-released Real Tracks. I'm not sure how tightly the marriage is between the GUI and the algorithm that creates the WAV files for the RT.
Either way a technology company that has created such amazing software should be able to find a solution since so many of their users have requested it.
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Do we really need more than 4 chords per bar, or just the abilty to put them in different places.
As a guitar player, I cringe at music the expects me to change chords 4 times in a bar, i just don't see that it would be possible to do 8, and for sure, never 16.
However pushing the chord is more meaningful. So allowing 8 possible locations, but 4 chords per bar might be realistic.
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I'll bet that you have played four chords per measure before. If you have played the blues or rock songs, especially those from the 50s, you must have played something like A-A6-A7-A6 in one measure.
I think using 16th notes as place markers for chords would work. For instance you are playing the song I'm a Man you need to place chords like this: E for each 1e+,a,2e+,a,3e+,a beat, a D on the 4e+ and A for beat 4a. That would be 8 chord strums and three chords per measure.
Note one beat consists of 1e+a or one eee and a with the chords on the beats being held 1e+.
I hope this is not too confusing.
[edit] for typo
Last edited by MarioD; 01/11/16 10:34 AM.
I got banned from Weight Watchers for dropping a bag of M&Ms on the floor.
It was the best game of Hungry Hippos I've ever seen!
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Journeyman
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I certainly have played 4 chords per bar, but i can't imagine playing even 6, especially if they are 'different'
C-Am-F-G7-C-F-G7-C would be horrendous, unless it was at 30bps. But 4 chords with 8 strums is possible, or shifting the chord change off the beat, but never 8 chords.
I leave that to the drummer.
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8th note resolution would give you the ability to have up to 8 chords per bar. I can't imagine needing more than that, and with pushes, you can move a beat a 16th note to the left (wouldn't need 8th note pushes, since you would have 8th note resolution anyway). I also wish they would implement (for lack of a better term) a pull, which moves the chord a 16th note to the right. That allows for many combinations of two chords to sit next to each other.
I would think that implementing such a thing would just require identifying a file as an older, legacy file (by some flag present), and then just remapping accordingly when you open it and then when you save it back, it's in the new format. Yes, it won't be compatible with older versions of the software, but occasionally you have to let go the need to be backward compatible with version 1 twenty years later.
It would seem that the RT/RD/MIDI engines to generate the arrangements would mainly have to be adjusted to perform the appropriate math to get everything to land on the correct beat (or off-beat).
Even Jammer Pro 6 offered 8th note chord resolution back in 2005.
Of course, I could be way off-base here as to the complexity (or lack thereof) of doing this.
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Journeyman
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I am still not convinced that we need more than 4 chords per bar, but I can understand the they need not be exactly on the beat.
Looking at note entry as an example, could we look at "triplet" resolution? You can plce the chord before, on, or after the beat. But still only 4 chords per bar. That i think is both a pull and a push.
I can't believe that it would make any difference to me but I am sure some people think it would actually be useful.
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When most us are talking about 8th note chord entry, it's not because we want 8 chords in a measure, (only in rare cases), we want to be able to enter in ie; the and of 4 to beat one of the next measure. Currently we can only enter a push to beat one and no chord on beat one, unless you use one of Bob Norton's styles or double your tempo. A case where I might want 8 chords in a measure would the the second measure of "Sophisticated Lady". I would play II-Vs on each beat for the melody line. In Ab second measure: Dbm7-Gb7, Cm7-F7, Bm7-E7, Bbm7-Eb7. Ray
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Dave, if we could do both a pull and a push, it would go a long way toward what Ray correctly identified as the problem. Even then, as far as 4 chords being enough per bar, here is a simple but common pattern I wish I could do with chords:
4 eighth notes in a row, an eighth rest, an eighth note, an eighth rest, and an eighth note. There could be a measure rest following, or a shot on beat one of the next bar. It's a common pattern that we can't do now, and even if we could, requires more than 4 chords per bar. Just one of many possible examples.
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It is not unusual for church hymns to change chords each beat and then throw in a few on the "and" of a beat, resulting in 5, sometimes 6 chords in a bar. I also have quite a number of songs that have a chord change on the "and" of beat 4 and then on the downbeat of the next bar, so it may not have more than 4 in the bar but the issue is how to place them properly.
The problem with the push is you can only push from the beat and then you can't have another chord immediately following it on the beat once you push.
I would think that 8th note chord resolution would fix 98% of the problems.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2025/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com
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