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I'm sure we are all aware of this, but still an interesting article. Vocal Comping
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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Interesting article. Most likely not much new information for users in this forum but some maybe surprised the practice is as common as it is.
I thought the quotes by Mike Senior and Ken Lewis were pretty good. I REALLY appreciated the tip about hiding edits behind instrument sounds. I also thought the comments about clues to recognizing comps in songs informative.
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Great ..
I'm currently working on narrations for lessons at an academy. Last thing I need is someone pointing out how to spot the edits .. especially when a single vocal track is all there is.
Here's hoping!
Using the same mic/preamp/interface/system in the same room on the same night of the week every week (and wearing the same clothes for luck) ..
Some of this stuff is tough, but it can be done!
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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Thanks for sharing that article Caaron, enjoyed it. One of the tools I use once in a while for the pitch side of things is: Singing CoachYou can create a MIDI file of your vocal melody and plot your voice to a graph on the screen while recording. The graph plots with the MIDI notes so you can tell if you're a little sharp or flat. If you or your singer practice through some runs on this before recording, you may not have as much to comp later. FREE version does not allow you to use your own MIDI files but it shows you how the tool works for deciding on purchase.
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Interesting story. I guess if you have a huge budget, lots of time, and someone else is picking up the engineer's tab.... that works. Oh yeah, and, lets not forget.... a good voice to start with!!
As for me, recording non-top 10 songs in my studio mostly for fun.... I think 3 or 4 takes will work fine, hit it with Melodyne, punch in what ME can't fix in a transparent manner, put the takes in the mix layered and panned, slap some EQ and verb on it and let it roll, because , let's face it..... I'm not exactly singing at the level of Kenny Rogers, George Strait, or any of the big artists for that matter.
100 takes.... I can't even imagine how tedious that would be trying to comp. Knowing how many phrases, words, and syllables are in a given pop song..... then multiply that by 100..... now, listen to, and categorize each and every one..... now, pick the parts and put them together......
.....and don't forget to click the "SAVE" button every now and then.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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I agree just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you need to. A good vocalist should be able to do it in 3 takes and maybe several extra punch ins for harder parts. How did they do it before they got all this digital wizardry? I doubt 100 takes would make an appreciable difference in performance other than wearing out the vocalist.
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I agree just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you need to. A good vocalist should be able to do it in 3 takes and maybe several extra punch ins for harder parts. How did they do it before they got all this digital wizardry? I doubt 100 takes would make an appreciable difference in performance other than wearing out the vocalist. I agree with Herb 100% I don't think what you are saying is what Herb was saying though. Just my opinion. I'm not going to speak for him. For top 10 hits, comping is what they do. It's not "I'm sure some do" they ALL do MANY, MANY takes. For what we do, it's probably not necessary. The reason I say "probably" is, if it's what someone wants to work on, go for it.  It's all fine in my book. I'm not commenting on what someone else should or shouldn't do.
Last edited by HearToLearn; 12/03/15 05:42 AM.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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I guess what I am saying is years ago pretty much none of this was done and many wonderful hits were released. I believe in comping to have insurance that you have enough. 100 takes and editing to the syllable seems excessive to me and you run the risk of getting too sterile but then again I'm not footing the bill and to each his own. I may just be too much an old fart.
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I agree just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you need to. A good vocalist should be able to do it in 3 takes and maybe several extra punch ins for harder parts. How did they do it before they got all this digital wizardry? I doubt 100 takes would make an appreciable difference in performance other than wearing out the vocalist. I agree with Herb 100% I don't think what you are saying is what Herb was saying though. Just my opinion. I'm not going to speak for him. For top 10 hits, comping is what they do. It's not "I'm sure some do" they ALL do MANY, MANY takes. For what we do, it's probably not necessary. The reason I say "probably" is, if it's what someone wants to work on, go for it. It's all fine in my book. I'm not commenting on what someone else should or shouldn't do. Well, they used to have one mic in the studio and there was ONE TAKE.... learn the song, rehearse the song, then sing it into the mic. Hank Williams, Ernest Tubb, Kitty Wells, Bob Wills, Elvis, Patsy Cline,..... the list goes on and on...... all recorded that way and sound just fine. In fact, compare Cline's one take vocals to any of the singers out today. Personally, I think this whole comping thing is a ruse. Kinda like the Wizard in the Wizard of Oz movie, all smoke and mirrors designed to impress someone..... they record all those takes to make it look like they are really a super audiophile (and they may be for all I know) ... to the folks with the money..... in the case of 100 tracks of one lead vocal...... I'd wager they might pick the best one out of the first 5 or so..... cut and paste a few places, essentially comping the track in much the same way I have done with 3 to 5 tracks.....run some transparent Melodyne on a few other nits and call it done..... but then hold off for a few days so they can then say... hey, I slaved over these tracks for the past 5 days or two weeks, or whatever...... by the way, here's my bill for labor. How do you even listen to 100 tracks and say, .... in the 2nd verse, line two, word number 3 last syllable of the 3 syllable word is the best out of all the 100 tracks.... give me a freaking break!!! I'm not a professional singer by any stretch of the imagination, but even I can get a vocal track right and nearly phrase perfect in under 5 takes. But.... I have also rehearsed and learned the song before I hit the record button. Beyond 5 takes, I'm simply taking up more valuable hard drive space and accomplishing nothing useful. I will listen to the tracks, look at them, and decide which one becomes the lead and which ones become the layers for thickening. I generally pick the one that needs less work, less fixing, and is generally better right out of the gate. However, there's really not that much difference between them all. That's why I can easily use them to layer and double the lead without the need to fix them. So.... if the artist cuts 100 tracks for the lead vocal..... how many dozens more are recorded for the harmony vocals?
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 12/03/15 08:47 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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How do you even listen to 100 tracks and say, .... in the 2nd verse, line two, word number 3 last syllable of the 3 syllable word is the best out of all the 100 tracks.... give me a freaking break!!!
I agree - there's no way 1 person can listen to every note sung on an entire song 100 times each to figure out the best one. after just a couple of notes a person's ears will already be fatigued! comping 100 takes of a lead vocal is just not practical at all.
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Please know that when I say this, I'm not saying it is in any way practical. I know personally, it would be WAY WAY WAY beyond what I would ever even care to do. For me, that would put me into complete overwhelm. So are we clear, it's not something I personally would EVER do? Now, that being said, I had a friend who did actually do this. We weren't close friends but enough so that I did get to witness his work. So NOT for me! I found out that he wasn't so much comparing from the aspect of just going in blindly to see which one he liked best out of all of them. It was more an approach of he knew the sound he was looking for and checked to see which he felt was closest to that sound. Those sounds he would compare. That also doesn't mean that he did every single syllable of every word. If they were fine they were fine. If they weren't, sometimes he would have to listen to the same mistake many, many times in different tracks, until he found one that wasn't that way. I'm not in any way defending his methods, just saying I saw it first hand. And it wasn't like he was doing it to impress me by any means. It was his job, and he got amazing results. Bottom line is I don't think people that do this are lying. He was elite, and got paid very well for it. My personal take is, there are people in ANY field of endeavor that take things WAY beyond what the rest of us would. I've heard stories of titans of industry, great athletes, writers, you name it who do things we would never dream of. Just because we think we could get the same results easier, doesn't mean that we can. I'm sorry to say, with all do respect, we (notice I included me in this) can sit and talk, but they are doing AND get far superior results! There are the players on the field, and the fans in the stands. Then there are the armchair quarterbacks. Just my opinion. I'm neither a player on the field, nor an armchair quarterback. I'm probably more flag football level. I play, but come on....do I really think I'm playing? Nope He was a great guy, well respected, AND down to earth. I will also say he committed suicide. I've always wondered, but don't know, if it had anything to do with his obsessiveness. Striving for perfection can be taken too far, in my book.
Last edited by HearToLearn; 12/03/15 09:58 AM.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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I will take a first or second take any day because after that you lose the emotion and the live feel. I will take a first or second take even if it has a couple of small warts in it. If it has a large wart the cut and paste works just fine for me. YMMV.
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I will take a first or second take any day because after that you lose the emotion and the live feel. I will take a first or second take even if it has a couple of small warts in it. If it has a large wart the cut and paste works just fine for me. YMMV. There's not enough tricks or comps to make MY vocal work 
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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I will take a first or second take any day because after that you lose the emotion and the live feel. I will take a first or second take even if it has a couple of small warts in it. If it has a large wart the cut and paste works just fine for me. YMMV. With today's DAW's, it's best to hit record even on your warm up time. And I LOVE punch in capability. My motto is to always record more than I need in case I need more than I have.... Gems sometimes happen unintentionally, even if you're just playing around. There was a YouTube video about vocal recording from Alan Parsons that's no longer up on YouTube but there was a portion featuring Michael McDonald. He said in the interview he normally has to practice 3-4 hours before his voice is suitable to him to begin actual serious takes.
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Please know that when I say this, I'm not saying it is in any way practical. I know personally, it would be WAY WAY WAY beyond what I would ever even care to do. For me, that would put me into complete overwhelm. So are we clear, it's not something I personally would EVER do? Now, that being said, I had a friend who did actually do this. We weren't close friends but enough so that I did get to witness his work. So NOT for me! I found out that he wasn't so much comparing from the aspect of just going in blindly to see which one he liked best out of all of them. It was more an approach of he knew the sound he was looking for and checked to see which he felt was closest to that sound. Those sounds he would compare. That also doesn't mean that he did every single syllable of every word. If they were fine they were fine. If they weren't, sometimes he would have to listen to the same mistake many, many times in different tracks, until he found one that wasn't that way. I'm not in any way defending his methods, just saying I saw it first hand. And it wasn't like he was doing it to impress me by any means. It was his job, and he got amazing results. Bottom line is I don't think people that do this are lying. He was elite, and got paid very well for it. My personal take is, there are people in ANY field of endeavor that take things WAY beyond what the rest of us would. I've heard stories of titans of industry, great athletes, writers, you name it who do things we would never dream of. Just because we think we could get the same results easier, doesn't mean that we can. I'm sorry to say, with all do respect, we (notice I included me in this) can sit and talk, but they are doing AND get far superior results! There are the players on the field, and the fans in the stands. Then there are the armchair quarterbacks. Just my opinion. I'm neither a player on the field, nor an armchair quarterback. I'm probably more flag football level. I play, but come on....do I really think I'm playing? Nope He was a great guy, well respected, AND down to earth. I will also say he committed suicide. I've always wondered, but don't know, if it had anything to do with his obsessiveness. Striving for perfection can be taken too far, in my book. but was he also the vocalist or was he recording someone else? do professional vocalists really do 100 takes? I can't imagine doing this because after 20+ takes the vocalist is going to be worn out and the rest of the vocal takes are going to be crap anyway - assuming they are done all in one day.
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Many of my songs are first or second vocal take. Because recently, I haven't even been doing layering. I've gotten really lazy on a few songs.
One take.... punch in on a few mistakes or glitches.... fix the rest with Melodyne...and I'm done.
I didn't mean to insinuate that everyone comping more than 2 dozen tracks was lying about it.... I know they do that, and I know they know what they're doing. It was more like an exaggeration on my part to illustrate how absurd that sounds.... 100 tracks and fixing syllables.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Well, they used to have one mic in the studio and there was ONE TAKE.... learn the song, rehearse the song, then sing it into the mic. Hank Williams, Ernest Tubb, Kitty Wells, Bob Wills, Elvis, Patsy Cline,..... the list goes on and on...... all recorded that way and sound just fine. In fact, compare Cline's one take vocals to any of the singers out today. I love a lot of the old music and certainly appreciate how they had to do it! Can you imagine nowadays having to splice a tape when I can do that digitally in a few seconds? But, I also recognize that, regardless of whether or not you prefer it, today's music, studio performance, recording, mixing, mastering, etc. is far more sophisticated, and I would say a lot better, than my old Hank Williams records! That is just obvious progress during 60+ years of experience! How do you even listen to 100 tracks and say, .... in the 2nd verse, line two, word number 3 last syllable of the 3 syllable word is the best out of all the 100 tracks.... give me a freaking break!!! Yeah, I agree 100%! I find it a chore to even work through 5 tracks. It encourages me to work harder to learn and sing the song better because that part is actually more fun than the sorting through a bunch of mediocre performances!
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With today's DAW's, it's best to hit record even on your warm up time. And I LOVE punch in capability. My motto is to always record more than I need in case I need more than I have....
Gems sometimes happen unintentionally, even if you're just playing around. So true!! I've had both sides of this. 1-Had something because we were recording. 2-Missed something because we weren't There was a YouTube video about vocal recording from Alan Parsons that's no longer up on YouTube but there was a portion featuring Michael McDonald. He said in the interview he normally has to practice 3-4 hours before his voice is suitable to him to begin actual serious takes. I would have LOVED to see that!
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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The way comping is being addressed here, you guys are correct that it doesn't take 100 takes to get it right. However, many big studio recordings are done over a considerable period of time, sometimes months or more... No takes are discarded.. The singer comes in several times over a period of several months. New vocals are recorded with alternate phrasing. Different mic's may be used to try a different tone. The vocalist may be asked by the producer to try the song with a different emotional vibe.
There may be several 'alternate' versions of the same song, each requiring different phrasing and emotion. New or additional producers may be brought in - their input can change the direction or breath new life into a song everyone knows is a hit but for some reason or other, the magic hasn't been found yet.
100 takes isn't so awesome over a six month period.
And in the digital domain today, nothing is discarded.
Listen to the out takes and alternate versions of the Beatles and Beach Boys songs available on YouTube. Many early versions of their hits vary greatly from the final commercial single. Also, back in the day, album versions of a song many times differed from the single release.
I also think you guys may be underestimating how advanced tape splicing/editing was back in the day. They really could take pieces from 5-6 different takes of a song music and vocals and cut/splice them into a single composite. There was also a lot of bouncing between machines to save various versions and experiments...
Its not unusual to hear the Beatles stop and restart a song at a bridge or 2nd verse. That could be edited into a completely separate first verse recorded at a different time.
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but was he also the vocalist or was he recording someone else? He was recording others. do professional vocalists really do 100 takes? I can't imagine doing this because after 20+ takes the vocalist is going to be worn out and the rest of the vocal takes are going to be crap anyway - assuming they are done all in one day. They are NOT all done in a single day by any means.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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If you have any questions about which package is the best option for you, just let us know. We're here to help!
202 New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2026!
With Band-in-a-Box® 2026, we've released 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 468-488) in a variety of genres—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Funk & World (Sets 468-475):
Our new jazz, funk & blues RealTracks include a groovin’ collection of RealTracks and RealDrums! These include more requested “soul jazz” RealTracks featuring artists Neil Swainson (bass), Charles Treadway (organ), Brent Mason (guitar), and Wes Little (drums). There are new “smooth jazz” styles (4), which include a RealTracks first: muted trumpet, as well as slick new smooth jazz brushes options for drums. Blues lovers will be thrilled—there are more “classic acoustic blues” styles, including guitar (5), bass (4), and drums (10) with blues master Colin Linden, featuring understated and tasty background acoustic soloing, plus brushes drums and acoustic bass. There are also new electric blues RealTracks, including electric blues with PG favorite Johnny Hiland (3) and soulful electric slide guitar from Colin Linden (4). If you love funk & gospel, there are great new options this year, including gospel organ (3) from Charles Treadway, as well as new funk, tango, and rock ’n’ roll drums (3) and bass (1). And for big, bold arrangements, we have uptempo soul horns (4) featuring a three-part hip horn section with options for a full mix or stems of each individual horn — plus an accompanying rhythm section (4) of drums, bass, guitar, and electric piano!
Rock & Pop (Sets 476–482):
Our new rock & pop RealTracks bring a powerful mix of requested favorites, fresh genres, and modern chart-inspired styles! We have more of our popular “Producer Layered Acoustic Guitars (15)” featuring Band-in-a-Box favorite Brent Mason. We’ve continued our much-requested disco styles (10), and added new Celtic guitar (5) with a more basic, accessible approach than our previous Drop-D or DADGAD offerings. There are also highly requested yacht rock styles (17), inspired by the smooth, polished soft-rock sound of the late ’70s and early ’80s — laid-back grooves, silky electric pianos, warm textures, elegant harmonic movement, and pristine production aesthetics. Fans of heavier styles will love our new glam metal (13), capturing the flashy, high-energy sound of ’80s arena-ready guitar rock. We also have a set of rootsy modern-folk rock (18), with a warm, organic sound combining contemporary folk textures and driving acoustic strumming. And we’ve added lots of new modern pop styles (16) — the kinds of sounds you’re hearing on the radio today, featuring exciting new drums, synths, and cutting-edge RealTracks arrangements.
Country, & Americana (Sets 483–488):
Our new country & Americana RealTracks deliver a rich collection of acoustic, electric, and roots-inspired styles! We have new country pop (9) with legendary guitarist Brent Mason. There is also a potpourri (14) of bouzouki, guitars, banjo, and more, perfect for adding texture and character to contemporary acoustic arrangements. We’ve added funky country guitar (5) with PG favorite Brent Mason, along with classic pedal steel styles (5) featuring steel great Doug Jernigan. There are more country songwriter styles (8) that provide intimate, rootsy foundations for storytelling and modern Americana writing. Finally, we have “background soloing” acoustic guitar (12) with Brent Mason — simpler, but still very tasty acoustic lines designed to sit beautifully behind vocals or act as a subtle standalone solo part.
Check out all the 202 new RealTracks (in sets 468-488)!
And, if you are looking for more, the 2026 49-PAK (for $49) includes an impressive collection of 20 bonus RealTracks, featuring exciting and inspiring additions to add to your RealTracks library. You'll get new country-rhythm guitar styles from PG Music favorites Johnny Hiland and Brent Mason, along with modern-pop grooves that capture today’s radio-ready sound! There are also new indie-folk styles with guitar, bass, 6-string bass used as a high-chording instrument, acoustic guitar, and banjo. Plus, dedicated "cymbal fills" RealDrums provide an added layer that work very well with low-key folky styles with other percussion.
The 2026 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2026 49-PAK!
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
With your version 2026 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
- Playable RealTracks Set 5
- RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
- SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
- iOS Android Band-in-a-Box® App
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
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