The way comping is being addressed here, you guys are correct that it doesn't take 100 takes to get it right. However, many big studio recordings are done over a considerable period of time, sometimes months or more... No takes are discarded.. The singer comes in several times over a period of several months. New vocals are recorded with alternate phrasing. Different mic's may be used to try a different tone. The vocalist may be asked by the producer to try the song with a different emotional vibe.
There may be several 'alternate' versions of the same song, each requiring different phrasing and emotion. New or additional producers may be brought in - their input can change the direction or breath new life into a song everyone knows is a hit but for some reason or other, the magic hasn't been found yet.
100 takes isn't so awesome over a six month period. And in the digital domain today, nothing is discarded.
Listen to the out takes and alternate versions of the Beatles and Beach Boys songs available on YouTube. Many early versions of their hits vary greatly from the final commercial single. Also, back in the day, album versions of a song many times differed from the single release.
I also think you guys may be underestimating how advanced tape splicing/editing was back in the day. They really could take pieces from 5-6 different takes of a song music and vocals and cut/splice them into a single composite. There was also a lot of bouncing between machines to save various versions and experiments... Its not unusual to hear the Beatles stop and restart a song at a bridge or 2nd verse. That could be edited into a completely separate first verse recorded at a different time.
Exactly!
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
Many of my songs are first or second vocal take. Because recently, I haven't even been doing layering. I've gotten really lazy on a few songs.
One take.... punch in on a few mistakes or glitches.... fix the rest with Melodyne...and I'm done.
I didn't mean to insinuate that everyone comping more than 2 dozen tracks was lying about it.... I know they do that, and I know they know what they're doing. It was more like an exaggeration on my part to illustrate how absurd that sounds.... 100 tracks and fixing syllables.
I personally have wondered if the number of times they redo a vocal, or any instrument, swells to the allowed budget!
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
but was he also the vocalist or was he recording someone else?
He was recording others.
Quote:
do professional vocalists really do 100 takes? I can't imagine doing this because after 20+ takes the vocalist is going to be worn out and the rest of the vocal takes are going to be crap anyway - assuming they are done all in one day.
They are NOT all done in a single day by any means.
that would definitely make more sense to do them over more than 1 "session."
I'm absolutely not questioning that your friend did it or not. and I'm sure if one person would do it then there are others who would as well. I just can't imagine it really being practical (which I know you've already said you aren't defending the practicality of it).
Many of my songs are first or second vocal take. Because recently, I haven't even been doing layering. I've gotten really lazy on a few songs.
One take.... punch in on a few mistakes or glitches.... fix the rest with Melodyne...and I'm done.
I didn't mean to insinuate that everyone comping more than 2 dozen tracks was lying about it.... I know they do that, and I know they know what they're doing. It was more like an exaggeration on my part to illustrate how absurd that sounds.... 100 tracks and fixing syllables.
I personally have wondered if the number of times they redo a vocal, or any instrument, swells to the allowed budget!
yep! most places aren't going to come in WAY below budget!
I guess it varies with your work flow. I opened a project and checked the number of 'comps' (edits for one track) .. was surprised. I suppose if the one vocal track has a couple dozen, the others added on may approach 50 pretty quickly here. 100 for professional work doesn't seem unfathomable at all. Heck I may have projects with that many, ain't got time to count 'em!
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome Make your sound your own!
I guess it varies with your work flow. I opened a project and checked the number of 'comps' (edits for one track) .. was surprised. I suppose if the one vocal track has a couple dozen, the others added on may approach 50 pretty quickly here. 100 for professional work doesn't seem unfathomable at all. Heck I may have projects with that many, ain't got time to count 'em!
That helps put it in perspective.
Thanks for posting this!
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
I guess with me I am recording to evaluate live performance.....so I want all my vocals single take to see if they are ready for live performance. I record vocals, backing tracks, and live instruments and then evaluate. It gives you a measure on mixing balance and performance. For me I seldom get thru a vocal completely flawless but totally acceptable. My fiance who has a fantastic voice is pretty much flawless.....drives me crazy. So none of this applies to why we comp...for me it just gives me some insurance that I have enough to work with. When I recorded my band for a demo I wanted it to be completely live so it was a fair representation of us live. Because we didn't do retakes just set up and played thru I had a few I had to toss because of issues I couldn't do anything with.
I am aware of comping, but have to admit that I probably didn't understand the depths that are used to get the 'good' 'better' 'best' takes.
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There are many examples on YouTube of recording sessions where you 'see' comping being done but there's no reference noting it. Usually, the emphasis of the video is a more global subject like in this link to Shania Twain and Lionel Ritchie recording "Endless Love". The recording session is portrayed for the viewer to feel the insecurities and struggles of Shania, so we see her sing a phrase, stop, and so on. But note the recording is being done phrase by phrase. It's not just due to her struggles because even when she nails a take spot on, she stops singing and recording stops. Each and every time. Endless Love
There are many examples on YouTube of recording sessions where you 'see' comping being done but there's no reference noting it. Usually, the emphasis of the video is a more global subject like in this link to Shania Twain and Lionel Ritchie recording "Endless Love". The recording session is portrayed for the viewer to feel the insecurities and struggles of Shania, so we see her sing a phrase, stop, and so on. But note the recording is being done phrase by phrase. It's not just due to her struggles because even when she nails a take spot on, she stops singing and recording stops. Each and every time. Endless Love
A few things struck me about this video.
-What you already pointed out.
-The casualness of the environment.
Gone are some of the illusions of the BIG recording studios to pump out a track like this.
thanks for sharing this! I never knew this was out there...even the remake of the song. VERY cool! I enjoyed it A LOT!
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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There wasn't a lot of comping with Ella .. not so sure about Frank, he always had something up his sleeve. (grin)
I've liked Mr Foster for a long time, it took me a few years to realize I was appreciating his editing/production techniques more than the music. But that's just me. He had a couple solo things I really liked, and they were probably made on a pretty tight budget at the time ..
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome Make your sound your own!
Some really great material in this thread, for sure.
One of my favorite CD's is "David Foster Recordings".
Sheer genius no matter how you look at it. From piano to production and everything in between.
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