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I wrote the following response to a post which has since been deleted. I think it's worth reading, so I am re-posting it with personal information removed.
Conflict is unusual on these forums, but not unheard of. The criterion I use is this: If a response speaks to a principle or idea, then it's just a disagreement. If it gets personal, i.e., attacks me, calls names, or is insulting, that person is not worthy of my attention and gets blocked. (Did you know you can do that?) Plus, if it gets truly nasty, a moderator will step in and either close the discussion, or even delete it. Extreme unpleasantness has resulted in users being banned.
Several years ago I got into a knock-down, drag-out political argument with a highly respected forum member that went on for days. Most observers thought it would be shut down, but it never got personal and it was allowed to reach its conclusion. We still disagree, but we also respect each other greatly.
I hope this helps affected members reach some understanding and find peace with what goes on here.
Richard
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Wow. Now that post got nuked.  
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One of my favorite scenes in a movie. And so appropriate here....
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, 1TB WD Black NVMe SSD, 2TB WDC Blue SSD, 1TB WD Blue, 2 TB SK NVMe, 6 TB External, Motu Audio Express 6x6
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It's important to remember that when having a disagreement, each side should exercise mutual respect for each other -- even if they both think the other is insanely stupid. I had a fight here many, many years ago and hopefully learned from the experience. Here's what I learned: - The obvious but sometime the hardest to see - you are disagreeing about topics, not people, their intelligence or personality - no personal attacks - keep things civilized and as diplomatic as you can
- Acknowledge their point as valid, but then explain why you think yours is better. This is very important.
- If you can't acknowledge their point as valid, acknowledge their intentions as being valid (Example: I know we are both earnestly trying to solve the same problem, but here is why I think my solution is better)
- Keep your opinions as opinions and keep all things stated as facts real, verified facts - it helps to cite verifications from respected sources
- Realize there comes a time when you have to agree to disagree and honor that
Trying to adhere to these guidelines has kept me out of many a fight online. And it's important to remember, once the fight starts, neither party will budge from their position so that flame war is not only distasteful, but it becomes a way to make it impossible to convince the other party that your side is right - in other words, it's counterproductive to the max. Of course, this is only what works for me and is all entirely my opinion and does not (but should) apply to politicians and on-line propaganda sources disguised as news programs. Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
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there's much wisdom in these words guys! Thanks for stating in a way that is so easy to understand and use!
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Decided to take a step back after the awesome responses I have gotten from people both with this thread and PM's. Dang guys! You are better people than I am! Thanks for being there for both sides in this. I'll give it some time. It would be a shame to flush the great things here over something like this I guess. Plus, I now know of the block button! I will say this. I want to make sure that it's known publicly that I mean no disrespect at all in the forums. I believe EVERY piece of advice I received was given with good intent! EVERY SINGLE PIECE. However, when advice on a topic turns into questioning an individuals motives and them as a person...that is personal, and I think it's understandable where someone would take that personally. It was meant to be personal. You can say my ideas are idiotic, but don't say I'm and idiot kind of thing. Does that makes sense? Anyway, I didn't think I was hungry, but I'm going to get some humble pie. I called in my order ahead of time and they told me I've eaten almost all of it! I told them to bake another as I'm sure I'll be back for more. Thanks everyone! Really...truly...Thank You!
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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Personally I ALWAYS stay clear when politics enter a thread. Always ends up in abuse.
Same on fb.
I also stay out of religious discussions as well for that same reason. I've been in and out of forums for 15 + years so have learnt a thing or two, sometimes the hard way
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Wow. Now that post got nuked. By the way, this totally captured the feeling. I laughed pretty hard, and on several occasions seeing this. It's just funny! Well played!
Last edited by HearToLearn; 12/12/15 02:58 PM.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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Personally I ALWAYS stay clear when politics enter a thread. Always ends up in abuse.
Same on fb.
I also stay out of religious discussions as well for that same reason. I've been in and out of forums for 15 + years so have learnt a thing or two, sometimes the hard way This may be where I have been going wrong. I have only stuck to a few, what I thought were safe subjects. Politics, religion, gun control, immigration and sexual orientation. If I can figure out which ONE of those to stop talking about, I think I will have this whole forum thing under control 
Last edited by HearToLearn; 12/12/15 03:01 PM.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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..........deleted.........
Now days, I have better things to do with my time than to comment on threads posted by fools and buffoons looking for trouble. That applies here as well as on other sites on the net. Nothing I say will alter the viewpoint of a fool, so why waste my time?
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 12/13/15 03:20 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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..........deleted.........
Now days, I have better things to do with my time than to comment on threads posted by fools and buffoons looking for trouble. That applies here as well as on other sites on the net. Nothing I say will alter the viewpoint of a fool, so why waste my time? I'm not disagreeing with the intent of your statement Herb... I basically agree that engaging in topics where one or more of the participants is looking for a fight is a waste of time. But your choice of words could be interpreted in a way I don't think you intended, so I want to elaborate on the potential misinterpretation. I'm guessing you meant that people who actively look for fights are fools and buffoons. Strong words, but some people might agree with that sentiment. It's a little too close to the danger zone for me. I want to differentiate between the idea that people who stir up strife are fools and the idea that people whose viewpoints differ from our own are fools. (I don't think that's what you meant, but it could easily be read that way) In a healthy society there is a lot of freedom to think and decide for ourselves. I appreciate forums where people can openly talk about their opinions without being attacked by people who disagree. Having said that.. I don't see disagreement as an attack unless it involves the person. Liberty to disagree with a point of view is a key ingredient in a free society... it's something that North Korea does not have, and something that I am very glad is alive and well (for the most part) in western civilization.
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Some good, essentially commonsense points have been provided here. The need to allow others the right to state their views but at the same time respect their point of view is simply democracy at work.
I don't agree with everyone else, but then again, not everyone agrees with me.
And that's quite OK.
BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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The price of free speech is listening to others who don't agree with me. Of course, anyone who doesn't agree with me is an idiot  Of all the forums I tend to frequent, this is the most civilized of them all. I feel we are part of a community, and the ladies and gentlemen that post here are my friends. Occasionally even friends fight, but when it's all over, they are friends again. Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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..........deleted.........
Now days, I have better things to do with my time than to comment on threads posted by fools and buffoons looking for trouble. That applies here as well as on other sites on the net. Nothing I say will alter the viewpoint of a fool, so why waste my time? I'm not disagreeing with the intent of your statement Herb... I basically agree that engaging in topics where one or more of the participants is looking for a fight is a waste of time. But your choice of words could be interpreted in a way I don't think you intended, so I want to elaborate on the potential misinterpretation. I'm guessing you meant that people who actively look for fights are fools and buffoons. Strong words, but some people might agree with that sentiment. It's a little too close to the danger zone for me. I want to differentiate between the idea that people who stir up strife are fools and the idea that people whose viewpoints differ from our own are fools. (I don't think that's what you meant, but it could easily be read that way) In a healthy society there is a lot of freedom to think and decide for ourselves. I appreciate forums where people can openly talk about their opinions without being attacked by people who disagree. Having said that.. I don't see disagreement as an attack unless it involves the person. Liberty to disagree with a point of view is a key ingredient in a free society... it's something that North Korea does not have, and something that I am very glad is alive and well (for the most part) in western civilization. I'm not going to say much more on this other than to say it takes a serious display of ignorance by someone to earn the "fool & buffoon" status, in my opinion. It's not a status I bequeath lightly.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Interesting thread....guess I can comment... As a personal rule I never debate on any subject on any public forum. I've never contributed to any political post. Just because I disagree on any subject doesn't mean I need to state it to see my own typing. But, on another forum I participate in I did respond with my opinion on two different subjects one time only: Those were the belief in a self-exalting religious entity and women being now being allowed to serve in direct ground combat units. I have my strong opinions of both subjects but only responded directly to the OP's question without pontificating as if to invite/enhance the debate baiting. I just spoke from my perspective and that was that. I have nothing to prove to anyone and don't need validation regarding my opinion on any subject....especially an emotionally charged one. I don't have to respect anyone's opinion that differs from mine.... I only have to respect their right to have that opinion.To each their own. Of course, I have been wrong in the past. Mas cafe para mi.....carry on.
Last edited by chulaivet1966; 12/14/15 05:12 AM.
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these are really great observations being made here! I respect the wisdom behind each of them!
regarding the choice to stay out of potentially explosive discussions: I think that is a very common-sense approach that is just about always in the best interest of the person making that decision. But (in my opinion) it does come with a cost in the larger sense.
Change happens incrementally. Rarely does a society go from liberty to oppression overnight. Lots of little changes happen that lead from point A to point B
note the minute but significant difference between the following series of similar statements:
"I prefer not to talk about controversial topics"
"I never talk about controversial topics"
"We don't talk about that around here"
"That topic is prohibited"
"By decree, citizens of _____ are forbidden to speak of___"
In N.Korea, getting caught talking about certain topics is punishable by death. You might say that N. Korea exists at the bottom of the slippery slope.
The Scandinavian countries are a prime example of a society where any topic is open for discussion, and behavior is governed by common sense rather than by social or governmental mandate.
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Pat, that reminds me of Orwell's "Animal Farm".
Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Notes said: Occasionally even friends fight, but when it's all over, they are friends again. Our dear late friend, John Conley, lived to argue but he remained loved by all. I called John the "Cantankerous Canuck". Occasionally, he'd raise his stick off the ice but, next day, he'd find a new pot to stir and someone else to offend. That was just his form of entertainment, verbal recreation. He was knowledgeable about music and BIAB so he was well tolerated by all. I wrote "Tender Adieu" posthumously for John. http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=12286951
Last edited by Don Gaynor; 12/15/15 03:59 AM. Reason: Added song link
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I miss John as well. His acerbic wit was a constant source of amusement. Even as he struggled with his health problems, he retained his offbeat sense of humor.
RIP John.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
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Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
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