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How do you use the Sound Canvas VA in BIAB, it is a VSTi ?
The DXi synth works fine as Default Synth, but the Roland Canvas don't work. According to the display, the tracks are well fed with MIDI data but, no sound get out.

Well, folks, it is very simple task to link VST-plugin and MIDI-output of any program.
1. You need a free program called MidiYoke. It gives you several virtual MIDI input and output devices. Every version of windows is supported, even Win 2016 Server TP4
2. After that you set the MIDI-output of your favorite program to "Out To MIDI Yoke: 1".
3. You also need any of programs called "VST Host". "VST Host" from Hermann Seib, for example. Or SAVIHost. Or any other free utilities. This kind of "VST Host" programs can load VST-plugin and then you can set its input to "In From MIDI Yoke: 1".

OK with MIDIYoke.
I would dream of a direct integration of VSTi in BIAB without any additionnal software....

No MIDIYoke or LoopBe app needed you can use VSTi's directly in BIAB . But those apps are useful to have for different reasons and in complex config's.

BTW that New Roland VA comes with too many restrictions - you need to click on the buy button and then read the "reminders"

The old Roland sound canvas plugin/app was good but these days $125 is too pricy you can get Coyote Forte for a third that or buy Cakewalk Music Creator here and it comes with TTS-1 a Roland SC like plugin ( sound clone) a lot cheaper. And I am a Roland Fanboy

Larry, could you please detail how you proceed to get the Roland Sound Canvas VSTi as default synth ?

I think this new SC looks interesting. It's more than just a GM synth because they say it has 1600 sounds with lots of editing.

I'm going to DL the trial and I'll report back but it will take a few days.

Just watch the Biab set up video to see how to set it up. It's simple and no problem at all.

Bob

Just added VST Hyper Canvas by doing:

Upper Menu: Opt. -> MIDI/Audio driver setup
Check: Use VSTi/DXi Synth
Button: VSTi/DXi Synth Settings ()
Button: ADD VST...

But i'm agree with

This new-year-2016 Roland Sound Canvas is silenced in a BIAB-VST mode. The channel charts are moving up and down, but no sound cannot be heard.
The MIDIyoke does a job though! Thank you folks, for mentioning new ROLAND module!!

Love to hear your report (i am on phone today so internet crippled)

But sounds like its a vsti version of most Roland GS Sound Canvas 's (for those who don't know GS is an expansion of GM thst allows variations of base 128 GM sounds as weel as other functions - Bob i kniw you know that but i think some reading this thread might not )

So suspect it 's like your Sonic Cell or my sc-8850 (1640 sounds) or SC-880 or SD-80 or 90

Don't get me wrong a good GM with GS expansion sounds/functions plugin is welcome and the "street price" will probably be closer to 100'ish but the listed restrictions by Roland was like a cold shower

And, I just read all the specs, what restrictions?

Bob

I use soft synths as well (Dimension Pro-Cakewalk) which has some excellent sounds), as well as several already mentioned that come with Sonar. But, to echo what JazzMammal said regarding hardware synths/keyboards, I use a first generation Yamaha Motif keyboard, as well as second generation Yamaha ES Motif Rack unit more than soft synths. The advantage of hardware synths is much less overhead on the computer, and, I might add, pretty amazing sounds and replication of various instruments. While not quite as flexible as soft synths, most modern day (and even my hardware synths) can be updated with new sounds/patches, etc., as well as creating customized sounds. Whether playing the keyboard or using the rack synth with my synth enabled guitars, I can capture (mostly) what is played both audio and midi through the instruments and bring it right into notation.
Richard

Bob -

I think these are the restrictions he was referencing (from the Roland web site):

Yeah but that's just normal CYA stuff. You know, "Hey I just tried to play this wonderful midi file I downloaded from a free website and it sounds like crap, what gives?"

When they talk about all those exceptions, it won't read this or that what they're saying is if you load in a midi file that was created say in Kontakt using non GM controllers to get the performance nuances those little nuances won't play correctly because this synth isn't Kontakt. Many users especially here have no clue about those sorts of things. Many folks here simply want brain dead plug and play and once you get above the basic GM synths we've talked about, it doesn't work that way. The better synths require some tweaking from the user.


The one thing I saw was the minimum computer requirements. the CPU should be no problem for older systems but it says 4 gigs of ram. There are still quite a few users here running old XP systems with 2 gigs ram. That apparently won't cut it.

As far as the listing of compatible software, nobody ever lists Biab but Biab handles VST's just fine so it should work but that's why they have a free trial which I will try soon.

Bob

What John said.

NOT trying to discourage, as matter of fact I just re-looked on the spec page and this just confirmed that THIS plugin is IDENTICAL (sound wise and part/poly wise) to my SC-8850


From Roland spec list:

"Number of parts 16 parts

Maximum Polyphony 64 voices

MIDI Format Conforms to GS, GM2, GM

Sound Maps 4 types (SC-8820, SC-88Pro, SC-88, SC-55)"


The SC-8820 and SC-8850 had same sound sets (analogous to how SD 80 and sd-90 have same sound sets) -
(look here to see who supplied the SC-8850 patch map to PG.)

Which makes it really good GM (GS/GM2) plug-in but sounds will be little dated. And PERFECT for BIAB and fast song generation for all non-real track parts!

I USE my SC 8850, I also use my old Alesis Nanosynth but when serious "endgame" is needed I use other rack gear or other plug-ins than SC, or TTS-1, or Forte, or even "plug ins" like Dim Pro!

actually the biggest gotcha for ME would be this one (Sonar is my goto DAW)

"Due to host application specifications, you cannot use control changes to make correct bank selections and program changes in the following host application.

[Windows]

・Cakewalk
SONAR PLATINUM / Professional / Artist(32bit Edition / 64bit Edition)

"

but I WILL DOWNLOAD AND TRY TRAIL in spite of all this. But will (probably) wait till price comes down for me to seriously consider buying (mainly since it's duplicative to what I already have in HW and other SW)

but your report will be useful to others here - so please ignore my doom and gloom

actually to beat this horse to death

Looking at list of patches they are one for one identical to SC-8850. Sound maps use same banks with same names - ditto drum maps to an SC-8850. BTW it DOES sound IDENTICAL to the SC-8850, here is a youtube on this it shows some sounds/patches with VA and then again with SC-8850.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QP_67GQkKn4

But if want a BETTER review of what it does well and not well (this is for "iStuff" which I don’t own any of but same sounds/app) actually go to around 13 min if you like "voices" and especially jazz scat (~15:30+ min)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v24enzx3Beo


the included SC-55 maps even include the CM-64 LA and CM 64 PCM sounds (which for gamers might come in handy - if you use the right VSTi .dll wrapper - TBD).

So if it were cheaper I might buy it as a SW substitute to using/carrying my SC-8850 and cables.

SIDE BAR: Since folks here that have a Ketron and swear by them for acoustic sounds - it would be nice if they had a Ketron plug-in counterpart to this one!

Since we got off topic a little wonder why PG doesn’t pursue selling Ketron's SD-2's or one of the other Ketron variations here?

Larry

(I'm probably talking myself in to buying it after all)

I don't think you're beating anything Larry, this is good info and it's great that you have the hardware version to compare to, I always heard good things about the 8850.

I think the real question regarding cost, is this significantly better sounding than the Forte Dxi or TTS-1? Those two are $40 each, if this is that much better I think it's worth it because what's the next step up? Not $2-300, it's more like $4-500.

The cool thing about having this as a plugin is the fast rendering of your song to audio. Software can render a song in 15-30 seconds while a hardware module has to be routed back to your computer using the audio ins and you record the playback in real time, there's no "rendering" with a hardware synth. A six minute song takes six minutes to record to audio.

Bob

Some users have comments about the sound of this VSTi, so how have you tested this VSTi in BIAB ?
Has anybody get Roland Sound Canvas VA working in BIAB as default synth without MidiYoke or other virtual cable?

Yes I was just about to comment

But you NEED JBridge. As dumb as it sounds I cannot get the 32 bit trail version to work in BIAB (or even Powertracks) (more later once I figure it out - it seems to be a sample rate issue interfering with BIAB BUT I'm still investigating so don't quote me, it could be ANYTHING (including "short between headsets") - remember it's a TRAIL version)

The 64 bit trial VERSION DOES WORK (via JBbridge).\


as with adding any VSTi/DXi as default:

1. click on the "Plugins" button

2. Click on the "Realtime VST/DXi Plugin in settgins

3. Click on the "default Synth"

4. at the top of the window that opens click on the TOP (first) slot and run scroll bar doe top bottom that says "add VSTi plugin"

5. POINT to the 64 bit version of the Sound Canvas .dll if you installed the trial with defaults than it is at

"C:\Program Files\Roland\Sound Canvas VA\SOUND Canvas VA.dll"


If you ALREADY added the 32 bit version (it has same name as 64 bit) you must FIRST delete it from the list in BIAB becasue the .dll's have the same name BIAB won't try and load the second version even though it's different (it's the 64 bit one) but BIAB sees the same name so it doesn't try to "reload" it.

You need to delete 32 bit one using the Options button in the VST plugins pull down window and you will see the remove VST button.

NOTE the FIRST time you open the Sound Canvas window in BIAB the "Parts" (or "FX' or "Options") portion of screen is cut off and you need send at least one instruments change to it then close BIAB and re-open to get the full Sound Canvas screen.

It is a BIAB display issue I will document it and send to PG support. I've had previous issues with large VSTi screens that BIAB wouldn't show whole "window" for in the past.


The output VOLUME of this VSTi (even at MAX for each part) seems to be low. And the total mix needs to be adjusted to level it all.



The 32 bit version of Sound Canvas VA works in 32 bit Mixcraft - but when I load a GM song ("Saturday in the Park") it sends the GM set to the Sound Canvas - it seems to ignore this - the parts play but are all the default Piano - also investigating that issue.

However the same song in 32 it Reaper works as expected and compared to my external SC-8850 sounds identical (when levels are set the same)

In 32 bit PowerTracks (2014) it loads up, has same display issue as BIAB (initially), and song sends all the right parts to the Sound Canvas VA VSTi but can't get any audio with - it causes no issues with running PowerTracks like it does in BIAB - just no audio.

STILL investigating (call me a geek)


.

the

I've read most of the responses here. I have to agree with some and disagree with others.

Coyote Forte is decent enough for an inexpensive GM soundset, but it is not "great", IMO.

TTS-1 is about the same as Coyote, IMO.

Hardware CAN be better in a lot of cases, but it depends on the hardware. I do tend to use a Yamaha MOXF on a lot of sounds, but some of its sounds are not great, either.

I also use Kontakt on some things, and on some things I use some of the cakewalk softsynths; SI Strings, SI bass, Soundcenter, DimPro, Rapture.

Mostly what the answer to this thread boils down to this:
it's about what you can afford for your level of satisfaction with the sounds. if you can afford Kontakt and can hear a difference between it and Coyote, then get it! if you can afford a hardware synth and can hear a difference, get it! if you are satisfied with Coyote and don't want to spend any more money, then don't!

just my 2 cents

Larry,
In my mind, I was speaking about the 32-bit version!
yes the 64-bit is very functional.
Thanks for helping !