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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Today I received the Windows version of BIAB 2009.5 UltraPak Plus on a USB hard drive. I started the installation with the option to install the BIAB and RB to my C: drive and the RT/RD to my PC's 2nd hard drive. It had run for close to an hour and the progress bar showed it about half completed when the electrical power to the house went out for just a second. Even though the PC is connected to a UPS, for some reason the PC shut down immediately.
Since the installation was only half completed when the power failed, what would be the best strategy to complete the installation? (The only thing I can think of is to delete all the files that had been installed and start the installation from the beginning.)
Last edited by dalemccl; 08/20/09 02:15 PM.
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Follow That Dream Sam Karaoke King -------------------- Turning that corner again - I have to keep following that dream, no matter what
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I agree, while you might be able to start over again from the middle, the safe way would be to reinstall from the beginning.
--And I'd look into another replacement UPS pronto, that should not have happened at all with a properly functioning good quality UPS unit. Make sure the PC is plugged into an uninterruptible socket...
--Mac
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Just to add to the two good answers above, I don't think you need to delete anything first. The BIAB install routine is going to create all necessary new files, and I'm pretty sure it would overwrite any that were already there. On my computer, at least, deleting a folder with hundreds (thousands?) of files takes just as long as copying them.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Thanks everyone. Before reading Matt's reply about letting the installation overwrite the files, I renamed the existing folders and successfully reinstalled to new folders. Now that the installation has been completed, I will delete the original folders just before going to bed and let the delete process run unattended.
And as Mac suggested, the UPS must be defective so I will be shopping for a new UPS. (The PC and monitor are both plugged into uninteruptible sockets, but both shut down when the power failed.)
I'm looking forward to trying the RealTracks and RealDrums later tonight. Both are new for me because I upgraded from Version 7, which is pretty old and was MIDI only.
Last edited by dalemccl; 08/20/09 06:14 PM.
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You're going to love the new features!
About the UPS, I had a problem once when I plugged one into a Furman power strip, rather than directly into the wall outlet. Apparently, the UPS was fine, but would only switch on quickly when it was plugged directly into an AC outlet. Maybe there is an engineering reason for the Furman causing the problem because of its own protective circuitry, or maybe it was coincidence, but in case it helps you, I'm reporting the experience.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Another consideration RE the UPS - could simply need a new battery - we've found you generally get about 2 years of reliable use and then the battery should be replaced. The difficulty involved depends on the UPS, but most are quite easy. In fact, many of the good ones are designed to allow you to change the battery without even shutting down first - check the manual for your unit on this though 'cos not all are. If in doubt, shutdown.
If the monitor is a CRT then having it in the UPS is not a great idea, not a deal breaker but not good either. An LCD would be fine. Also, if you have a laser printer in the UPS then you should move it - they draw far too much current.
Matt's comment about the power board are also apropos - dunno 'bout a "Furman" one (haven't heard of 'em here in Oz) but UPS's should always be plugged straight into the mains.
--=-- My credo: If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing - just ask my missus, she'll tell ya  --=--You're only paranoid if you're wrong!
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Furman power conditioners, voltage regulators and surge suppressors are, arguably, the most used brand in pro audio in the USA. Interesting you don't have them there, Lawrie.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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G'day Matt, thanks for the info. Based on that they may be here, but I deal with computer equipment - the big names here for IT power management and UPS are APC, Nikko and Sola. Furman may well be popular in the audio fraternity here as well, but as that isn't my industry I wouldn't necessarily know. 'ang on a sec............................................................................... OK, just did a search for Aussie websites of companies that sell Furman gear and there are quite a few - but ALL audio related. Oops, wrong industry... 
Last edited by Lawrie; 08/20/09 07:51 PM.
--=-- My credo: If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing - just ask my missus, she'll tell ya --=--You're only paranoid if you're wrong!
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Yes, I understand, but the audio and computer industries converge for music production.
As a DAW, my computer is essential for my audio work, and my audio interfaces are essential add-ons for my computer. It is all powered together since it is all connected together; otherwise, one would get a ground loop hum problem.
That leads to the next problem: what order to connect everything. The Furman conditions the power and regulates the voltage, which all electronic equipment benefits from, and makes a convenient power strip. The APC UPS protects the PC from crashing on power brownouts and interruptions. But if you plug the UPS into the Furman, the UPS doesn't seem to work quickly enough. If you plug the Furman into the UPS, then other heavy-draw equipment is connected to the UPS that should not be. I've worked in both the computer and audio industries, and I still haven't figured out the best way to wire it.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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G'day Matt, you raise some valid points. Perhaps a consideration is that the larger APC units - not sure about the others I mentioned - are true sine wave and power condition as part and parcel of the overall protection - from the 1kVA SmartUPS up I believe, though you might need to go to the 1.5 kVA. My memory may not be exact on which models. Whatever, use the SmartUPS, not the BackUPS, as the former have better features - particularly in the management area. With that said, PC's have switch mode PSU's anyway. So long as the power supplied is within the design input range you should get pretty good power out and the better quality ones have pretty good regulation too. Theoretically this should apply to any equipment that uses switch mode supplies. It all depends on quality and how over engineered the supply is. If it's running close to its limits it will fail sooner and not do its job as well. Perhaps what is really needed is a true online UPS - these guys always run on the inverter and if there is a mains failure there is no switch over as it is already running - ya pay for these suckers but they are arguably the best way to go. Get one big enough and you can run everything on it - hope ya got big pockets for all the cash you'll need to buy one Otherwise, if you connect the UPS and the conditioning equipment to the same power outlet then there should be no ground loop problem as they are all going back to a common ground connection that is close to the equipment. UPS on the gear that needs it and power conditioner on the other stuff. Should be fine.
--=-- My credo: If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing - just ask my missus, she'll tell ya --=--You're only paranoid if you're wrong!
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This is one area where a lappie is better than a desktop - pull the plug on a lappie and it reverts to battery immediately. The way lappies are built nowadays, they really are desktop replacements. My latest lappie is an HP EliteBook 8730w with 2.8GHz Duo Core CPU, 4GB RAM and a 300GB HDD plus more ports than you can shake a stick at and a 17" screen  Oh! Did I mention that I can take it with me wherever I go?
Follow That Dream Sam Karaoke King -------------------- Turning that corner again - I have to keep following that dream, no matter what
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Thanks, Lawrie. A huge UPS would work for everything except the laser printer. Good idea.
I didn't mean to muddy the discussion, but part of my problem is that I have a 20-amp outlet as required by the Furman, and this outlet is tied back to the same ground as the outlet in the other room containing the rest of the studio equipment. This prevents the ground loop between the bedroom that is the control station and the other bedroom that is the recording space. Then, in the control room, I have another regular AC outlet not tied to the same ground. I don't want to use that for the mid-size UPS because of potential ground loop, but if I don't, the UPS doesn't cut in fast enough in a power outage. Did you ever read "Catch 22"?
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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G'day Matt, hmm - a dilemma to be sure - how about this: Have a sub distribution board installed in one of the rooms - probably the control room - and ALL the power for both rooms is distributed from this board. That includes the 20A outlet for the Furman and whatever outlet is required for the UPS. That way the grounds are tied together at the sub board which is only gonna be a few feet from the outlets in question - you could even have those 2 outlets on the sub board itself - then we're only talking inches. The shorter the ground wires the less likely there'll be potential differences between them and thus less likelihood for noise to be introduced from that source. Probably be cheaper than a large online UPS too. As an aside, do you know if the US uses the MEN* system in power distribution the way we do here in Oz or does the way you use split phase distribution preclude it? *MEN = Multiple Earthed Neutral RE Catch 22. Never managed to finish reading the book - just got too stupid for me, though I did watch the movie - also too stupid
--=-- My credo: If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing - just ask my missus, she'll tell ya --=--You're only paranoid if you're wrong!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
You're going to love the new features!
About the UPS, I had a problem once when I plugged one into a Furman power strip, rather than directly into the wall outlet. Apparently, the UPS was fine, but would only switch on quickly when it was plugged directly into an AC outlet. Maybe there is an engineering reason for the Furman causing the problem because of its own protective circuitry, or maybe it was coincidence, but in case it helps you, I'm reporting the experience.
No maybe to it, the MOVs in the Furman would kick in first, clamping the AC line so fast that the UPS wouldn't be able to detect a fault in time.
No need for the Furman there, any good UPS has its own transient suppression system of MOVs in it anyway, plus the same or equal harmonic suppression and EMI/RFI filtering.
In short, placing the Furman before the UPS effectively put "blinders" on the UPS...
--Mac
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Quote:
I didn't mean to muddy the discussion, but part of my problem is that I have a 20-amp outlet as required by the Furman, and this outlet is tied back to the same ground as the outlet in the other room containing the rest of the studio equipment. This prevents the ground loop between the bedroom that is the control station and the other bedroom that is the recording space.
Well, the real answer to that one is that it might -- and it might not -- eliminate possible AC Ground Loop audio interference problems.
Little understood, but what really causes the problem are two separate paths to AC Ground that are of differing resistance. This means that, even though those two outlets may be "tied to the same ground" they could still have different *lengths* of ground connects, causing the problem anyway.
Think about this: ALL AC sockets in your house, if wired properly, are "tied to the same ground" back at the panel.
My advice to recordists on this subject is simple enough: Don't worry about the AC Ground Loop problem unless confronted with it.
In other words, connect things up and if there is no noise, be happy.
If you do encounter noise of the AC Ground Loop variety, the fizzy sounding continual buzz on audio lines, then go ahead and apply methods to correct it such as isolation transformers, etc.
--Mac
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Thank you, Mac. I'm OK on the ground loop problem, and you confirmed why plugging the UPS into the Furman won't work. Appreciate the help and the explanation.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Here's an update.
I got annoyed enough about my UPS shutting down with every little power blip (storm yesterday; lights flickered all day) that I wrote to APC tech support. These folks make the uninterruptible power supply I'm using.
I told them I have only the PC, monitor, router and cable modem on the battery backup. I asked APC why, if my equipment draws only 114 watts and their power supply supports 700, was it shutting down all the time instead of kicking in with battery backup?
They said that the Antec 500 watt power supply is designed with something called PFC, power factor corrected, and that it initially momentarily draws 1.25 time the rated power. That meant that a 500 watt power supply alone was drawing 625 watts. When you add in my monitor and modem and router, it pushed it over the 700 watts rating of my UPS.
Once I disconnected all but the PC, the UPS works fine.
Therefore, I can either buy a replacement UPS for more wattage, or get a second small one for my monitor and router and modem. Either way, APC is happy.
I'm amazed more people do not complain about this, though. The PFC power supplies are popular because they meet Energy Star requirements, which is something anyone would reasonably want to do if they could, but this design means that you need a MUCH bigger UPS that you otherwise would, to accommodate that initial surge.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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I was on the team at the Fire Department when we moved to a new station, and we had these big Unix workstations for 911 on the 3rd floor. The UPS systems hated the generators , and everyone pointed fingers. The power output was unstable enough that the UPS system would ignore the input, and we spent about 400k just getting all that stuff sorted out. I lost a lot of hair. I was the 'compliance officer', to make sure we met all codes, like 3 locked doors between outside and the 911 dispatch centre, and ergonomics, locations of the facility, etc.
I did lose one HUGE battle. Every Fire and Building Code mandated the entire structure have sprinklers, the Chief gave into the all female 911 staff including the divisional Chief Communications Officer, because the sprinklers would electrocute them all. Despite demonstrations that say only 1 head goes off at a time, the spray is fine, you will be ok, and if there is a fire you all move to locations 2 and 3 as backups, they never put the sprinklers in that area. They threatened I had to sign off, I refused, and put notes in the files at City Hall. Stubborn SOB that I am.
Of course my lawyer has a file cabinet of stuff I got overruled on, no one is going to sue my pale butt over stuff the mayor or Fire Chief tried to make me agree to.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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I once spec'd auto-firing Halon extinguishers for a new "inner sanctum" 911 room.
Elegant solution, but I recently heard that they got overruled by environmental regs.
"If its environmentally sound, it doesn't work..."
Matt -- when spec'ing power equipment, it is always apropos to select a device that is able to deliver at least 1-1/2 times the amount of power in the calculated power budget. I like to derate by a factor of 2, usually. A power source that is not running "full tilt" in order to do its required job will run cooler and run longer when derated in that fashion. Its better to have it "loafing" rather than straining towards its maximum ability. Don't overdo the derate, either, though, for specifying one that is way over the power budget can have problems of another sort. 2X is plenty. Or, as we say in engineering circles, "double derated".
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box 2025 Italian Version is Here!
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È stata aggerate la versione in Italiano del programma più amato dagli appassionati di musica, il nostro Band-in-a-Box.
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Di seguito i link per scaricare il pacchetti di lingua italiana aggiornati per Band-in-a-Box e RealBand, anche per chi avesse già comprato la nuova versione in inglese.
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