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It's the weirdest thing that just started happening about 2 weeks ago...about the same time that I switched from using the headphone output on my laptop to a USB with an audio interface (Edirol), although I don't see how that could have anything to do with it. I'm still using the latest build of BIAB 2015, waiting on build 432 of BIAB 2016 before I install the updated version of the program. But there were no changes or updates made to the 2015 version 2 weeks ago that I know of; I certainly didn't download or install anything.
Here's the problem: on some slow songs, I have been using RealTrack #1841 (synthpad strings, high) only on the final held chord of the song at low volume. I use MIDI strings for the rest of the song but in the 2015 upgrade, a legato feature that was added that prevents me from effectively reducing the MIDI strings volume for that final chord because any notes that were already being played are not affected. So on that final chord I mute the MIDI strings and bring "back to normal" the RT #1841 on what would normally be the guitar track which had been muted until that final chord. This workaround has worked just fine week after week, month after month until about 2 weeks ago.
The problem is that now the RT #1841 plays in a different key as if it had been transposed or frozen in a different key, but nothing like that has been done. And if I change to a different RT, regenerate and play the song, then switch back to RT #1841, it sounds correct. BUT - when I power down and then back up again later, the RT is once again playing the wrong chord, usually a half step higher or a whole step lower...weird.
I tried "Restore to Factory Settings" and it did not have any effect on this problem.
Any ideas?
Jim
Psalm 33:3 Sing unto him a new song; play skillfully with a loud noise.
BIAB 2018 build 519; Dell Inspiron N4110, Windows 10 64 bit, Intel Core i3-2350m running at 2.29 GHz, Memory: 6 GB DDR3, SDRAM 1MHz
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That is weird, agreed. I think you should consult PG Music Support for this one.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Will do, and I'll let you know what they say.
Jim
Psalm 33:3 Sing unto him a new song; play skillfully with a loud noise.
BIAB 2018 build 519; Dell Inspiron N4110, Windows 10 64 bit, Intel Core i3-2350m running at 2.29 GHz, Memory: 6 GB DDR3, SDRAM 1MHz
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And if I change to a different RT, regenerate and play the song, then switch back to RT #1841, it sounds correct. BUT - when I power down and then back up again later, the RT is once again playing the wrong chord, usually a half step higher or a whole step lower...weird.
Any ideas? Sounds to me like the RT is regenerating when you power off and on. Try the work-around you used to get it sounding right and then freeze the track.
Boyd
Win10 - 16GB-RAM - BiaB 2019 - Mixbus 4 - Slate Bundle - Komplete 10 - Ozone 8 - Neutron 2 - Waves Gold
Ample Sound Guitars & Basses - Pianoteq 6 - SSD5 - SD3 - JamStix 4 - Omnisphere - UVI Falcon - EastWest Play
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That is weird, agreed. I think you should consult PG Music Support for this one. This happens constantly and randomly to me too, usually on that beautiful final "held" chord you just came up with  FWIW it seems to be on Synth RTs and occasionally piano. I posted thread about it, sent sgu files and mp3 sound samples to PG but it never got resolved. Just regen and regen the track until it gets it right the one time and Freeze it!!! Its a PITA but its a workaround. Ian BTW -COULD it be something to do with the computer power needed to generate all tracks together. Typically i end up using all 7 tracks and ive noticed that if i create an new sgu of my tune with only (say) bass, drums and that pesky synth on it, it doesnt exhibit the strange behaviour.
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OK, let's explore that.
Jim and Sixchannel, what is your single-core Geekbench score?
What is your setting for Preferences, RealTracks, Fast Generation?
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Are you keeping your work on BB and or Real Band.... or are you exporting it to a DAW to finish the mixing?
Provide as much detail on what's happening and the set up of the gear as you can.
If you're exporting and the DAW sees it as a certain type of clip.... I think it's called a groove clip or an acidized clip, the DAW can change the key on that automatically.
I forget what I was doing last week but that happened to me. In one key in the PG stuff and into the DAW, it changed keys on me. I found the box that was checked... unchecked it and waa laa... back to the right key.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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OK, let's explore that.
Jim and Sixchannel, what is your single-core Geekbench score?
What is your setting for Preferences, RealTracks, Fast Generation?
Hi Matt My Geekbench score is 4427. Intel Core 2 Quad Q8300 @2.5Ghz. 4.00DDR RAM (think thats the Max I can have anyway with XP Pro) SDRAM 334Mz In Prefs - RealTracks Settings, I have "speed up of generation" checked. I think thats the default - cant remember ever touching it. Ian
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Are you keeping your work on BB and or Real Band.... or are you exporting it to a DAW to finish the mixing?
Hi Herb - It stays in BB until I have the Arrangement as I want it, then freeze tracks and export as wav to DAW. I might have to run the Synth track (if it is that at the time) several times to get one that isnt playing bizarre notes. When it gets it right - FREEZE!!! lol! Ian
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Ian, that's plenty fast enough, by twice or so.
The default value of the Fast Generation checkbox was recently called into question in testing, but it shouldn't affect you or have anything to do with your problem in this thread.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Herb, I am keeping my songs in BIAB, not using any DAW.
Matt, my single-core geekbench score (with Norton 360 running) is 1778.
In case it makes any difference, I could only run the Geekbench test at 32 bit but my computer is 64 bit. Not sure if that matters. The multi-core score is 3719.
My computer:
Dell Inspiron N4110
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit
Intel Core i3-2350m running at 2.29 GHz
Memory: 6 GB DDR3, SDRAM 1MHz
Processor = GenuineIntel Family 6 model 42 stepping 7
Processor codename = Sandy Bridge
Jim
Psalm 33:3 Sing unto him a new song; play skillfully with a loud noise.
BIAB 2018 build 519; Dell Inspiron N4110, Windows 10 64 bit, Intel Core i3-2350m running at 2.29 GHz, Memory: 6 GB DDR3, SDRAM 1MHz
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Jim, I didn't see much difference in performance from the 32-bit version of Geekbench to the 64-bit one.
I should have keep all the notes from Peter Gannon on this, but my memory tells me that your score may be too low to have Fast Generation of RealTracks checked. The old threshold used to be around 1,500 but with the more rigorous requirements of either BIAB 2015 or 2016 (can't remember which) it changed upward to around 2,000. I'll see if I can find more and if I do, I'll post it here.
However - from Ian's post, it would seem that the Fast Generation checkbox is not related to this particular issue. And I don't think you said whether yours is checked, or not.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Oops, forgot to mention that. Yes, it is checked. But it has been checked ever since I installed BIAB 2015, and I have never had a problem with this before, so it doesn't seem likely to me that fast generation is the culprit.
If the minimum with BIAB 2016 is higher than my score, then I'll uncheck it when I install this year's update. And I'll be interested in seeing the threshold requirements you find.
I have not heard back from PG Music support about this; I'm sure they will eventually respond.
Jim
Psalm 33:3 Sing unto him a new song; play skillfully with a loud noise.
BIAB 2018 build 519; Dell Inspiron N4110, Windows 10 64 bit, Intel Core i3-2350m running at 2.29 GHz, Memory: 6 GB DDR3, SDRAM 1MHz
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I guess I could freeze the track in question when it plays correctly, but it's an inconvenience if and when I do the song in a different key...as I sometimes do (frozen tracks don't change keys). I guess I could save it separately for each key that I might do it in, but I really shouldn't have to do that...
Hopefully someone will come up with the reason this is happening and a solution.
Jim
Psalm 33:3 Sing unto him a new song; play skillfully with a loud noise.
BIAB 2018 build 519; Dell Inspiron N4110, Windows 10 64 bit, Intel Core i3-2350m running at 2.29 GHz, Memory: 6 GB DDR3, SDRAM 1MHz
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I remembered it correctly. Here is a relevant post from Peter Gannon from January 14, 2016, regarding a problem reported by Trygve Larson: A slow PC could cause this. If this is the case, disabling fast generation of RealTracks would diagnose (and fix it). You can do that from Prefs-RealTracks - Speed up Generation of RealTracks - set that to NO.
If that fixes it, it will take longer to generate the song, but the whole thing will play. And you could test the speed of your PC by doing a geekbench ( http://www.primatelabs.com/geekbench/ ) , and telling us the single core speed. Anything about 2,000 should be fine. If this is the case, the songs that would be most troublesome would have lots of RealTracks, lots of chord changes, and be tempo stretched higher - all on a slow PC (slow CPU and/or slow Hard Drive)
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Okay, I'll try unchecking fast generation to see if that helps. But if that's the problem, I don't understand why this never happened until a couple of weeks ago because I've been using this workaround for the final chord for several months, almost a year. And why would it always happen ONLY on the final chord and why would it always happen ONLY on the same track using the same patch? (guitar track, RT #1841 synthpad strings high)
Jim
Psalm 33:3 Sing unto him a new song; play skillfully with a loud noise.
BIAB 2018 build 519; Dell Inspiron N4110, Windows 10 64 bit, Intel Core i3-2350m running at 2.29 GHz, Memory: 6 GB DDR3, SDRAM 1MHz
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Actually Jim - its NOT on always just on the final chord - assuming you Hold it eg C...
If you have a hold ... elsewhere in the music it can do it there too. AFAIC its when you ask it to hold a chord that it does its own thing.
Ian
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There was a substantial update of RealTracks shots and holds a year ago. Just checking, in addition to program updates, have you kept up with RealTrack patches for your version 2015?
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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As far as I know I have installed every update that ever came out. But just to be sure, and I think I know how to do this, but I want to hear it from you experts, just to verify the procedure, how do I confirm that I do already have that substantial update of RealTracks shots and holds from a year ago? And thanks in advance for your help.
Jim
Psalm 33:3 Sing unto him a new song; play skillfully with a loud noise.
BIAB 2018 build 519; Dell Inspiron N4110, Windows 10 64 bit, Intel Core i3-2350m running at 2.29 GHz, Memory: 6 GB DDR3, SDRAM 1MHz
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That's a fair question, and it's not as simple as reading Help, About to see the build #. I suppose there would be an easy test to view something like, does RealTrack X have Holds, but as I no longer have an older version to compare, I don't have an answer. Perhaps Andrew at PG Music could supply an appropriate test.
In general though, if you go into the /BB/RealTracks folder, you should expect to see dates of some folders are around the date of the patch, or within a month or two.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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