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Joined: Apr 2016
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Hey Everyone.
I'm relatively new to the BiaB world, but I have been running into a problem:
I'm working on a song that is 132BPM. Nothing too complex, however at that tempo, it has a chord change on the 4 of a few measures. Here's my hiccup...
I would like it to have a dark, half-time ballad kind of vibe. There is a perfect style for what I want (BALBMS2.STY for those who might have it) but it has a 65BPM reading. But at 66BPM, I can no longer get that transition chord in there (I don't think you can do a chord on the 'and' of 4 and have another chord on the 1 of the following measure.) So my question is:
How can I utilize a half-time style at a regular tempo? This would be more than ideal, since there are several ballad styles I'd like to use, but I need the faster tempo markings for chord changes.
Or are there any really killer half-time feeling styles out there that I just haven't found yet?
Any help would be awesome. Thank you.
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Welcome to the forum. Do you play horns (or maybe accordion or organ)?
Not at my BIAB computer now, but when choosing individual RealTracks, there is an option (I think it's near the right-hand side of the dialog box) to have the RealTrack play at normal or half-time speed.
To the best of my knowledge, the same adjustment cannot be made on RealDrums, so you will have to find one that sounds right at your tempo with no such setting adjustment.
If notation is not important to you, don't overlook the choice in the Edit menu to Expand the song to twice length, and experiment with the tempo. While it sometimes takes effort to find what you want, BIAB can be more flexible than it sometimes appears at first. That's the only way BIAB can give you a chord on the and and another chord directly on the following beat, becuase Pushes only go 'backwards'. Notes Norton (nortonmusic.com) is a third party provider of styles and has made what he calls Expanded Styles to accomplish getting around this limitation also.
I write lots of sambas that BIAB wants to see at tempos of 200 to 220 or so, but I would rather write at cut time of 100 to 120. The program can automatically adjust the feel as you make large tempo adjustments. Sometimes you get what you are looking for, so experiment.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Apr 2016
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Thanks Matt.
No. I'm actually a drummer/bassist/vocalist. Moving Air is the name of my recording studio. When trying to come up with a name, I just thought, "what is sound?" And that was that.
I tried the half-time setting, and it does shift it to be usable, but it still dpesn't dp the change on the 4, so I'm still in the same boat. It either misses it completely, or it comes in on the 3. Any other suggestions?
I would love for BiaB to come out with some deep groove, half-time RealTracks. I've had more than a few times where that would have been amazingly useful.
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Let's back up and take nothing for granted here. Do you know to enter a comma between a chord on beat three and beat four? Or just a comma followed by a chord?
Let's say you want Em7 on beat one, and A7 on beat four. Type em7 [Enter] , A7 [Enter]
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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I did not know that. However, I have just been right-clicking in the measure and using the "Chord Settings..." menu selection. There I assign what chord goes to what beat, if any particular beat gets a 'push,' etc.
It works like a champ when the chord structure is used in "normal time." However, when I switched the instruments to "half time," then it no longer followed on beat four.
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Yes, that's a good way to enter chords. I learned the method to type with commas decades ago so I still use primarily that. I think it's probably a lot faster once you know how. A caret character ^ preceding a chord causes a 1/8 push. Details in Help, Pushes Shots and Holds.
Your last statement is something I do not understand, and I need to do some tests to see what you see. Can you describe precisely how you "switched the instruments to half time" and what exactly you mean by "no longer followed"? Give me step by step, and tell me what you see and what you expected to see. Maybe add some screen prints?
We'll get there.
Oh, and Moving Air is a fine user name, considering the physics of musical sound.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Remember when you told me how to change the RealTracks from 'normal' to 'half time' in an earlier post? That's what I was referring to.
As for the "not following" part, what I mean is this: if I have a song and say it's at 140BPM, and the measures look like this (Cm / / / | / / G Bb | Cm...) [slashed are just empty beat spacers] and I set the RealTracks to 'half time', the tracks will not get the Bb on beat four of the second measure. So half time settings do not catch changes like that.
That's the problem I'm having. With as popular as songs with half time feels are, I'm a little surprised that BiaB doesn't have a lot to offer in that regard.
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Hmm. I'll give this a try.
Did some testing. Moving_Air, I may have given you the right idea but in the wrong direction.
Try setting your RealTrack instrument(s) to Double-time instead of Normal or Half-time. This can sometimes work when you have a tempo much slower than the style is usually written for.
In my tests in a samba at quarter=120, I was able to duplicate that Half-time left off all but the chord on beat one. Also, Normal played four chords per bar but sounded choppy. Try Double-time.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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if I'm understanding you correctly, I don't think the double time thing would apply. Here's the problem with it:
I'm doing a song at 132 BPM. It has a half time feel. However, at 132 BPM, it has that progression of cord changes on 3 and 4. Anything I apply at 132 absolutely does the 3 and 4 change, but it's completely the wrong feel. So if I set things to half time, I get the proper feel, however then it does not catch the chord changes.
I would reprogram the entire song at 66 BPM if I could, but then it becomes chord changes on 4 +, and then back to root on 1. And there's no way to program that, that I am aware of.
This is my half time dilemma.
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Perhaps....
Maybe you can do this using a DAW. It would take planning and forethought....
Render the parts in BB and export tracks. You would need to make 2 versions of the song. One in one tempo and the other in a doubled multiple or halving of the original tempo. Add the needed measures.... the faster one would need to have exactly twice the number of measures as the slower one....
Choose the tracks you need to make the end product. You could even splice a part.... drums for example.... from both tracks so the fills are correct.
I have contemplated something like this but have never felt the need to actually spend the time to try it. I normally take a different path like changing the song or putting it into the ash heap.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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OK. I understand the problem and was able to duplicate it using the Half-time setting. I'm going to pass this along to Support to see if they have a suggestion, now that you have confirmed this is the 'feel' you want.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Correction. Rethinking. I finally had time to enter your exact song.
I'm now using the style you indicated, BALBMS2.STY, which is all RealTracks, at tempo = 132 (even though that's way above the recommended tempo range). Checking, all RealTracks are set to Normal.
I hear a nice change with all three chords in bars 2 & 3: Gm,Bb then Cm
I understand if I change, say, the organ to Half-time, then it misses the Bb chord.
But can you explain in more detail what is wrong with the sound (you called it 'the feel') with the default, Normal version for each RealTrack? It sounded pretty good to me.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Yes, the normal version sounds fine, but when you have a song at 132, and you want it to feel like it's at 66, there's no good way to do it and keep the chord changes in there.
I'm trying to come up with a "Midnight in Montgomery" (Alan Jackson) kind of vibe. I just don't see it being currently possible with BiaB.
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Unless someone else can help here, I suggest you make a post in the Styles Wishlist forum. You have info specific enough for a clear request. A link to a music example such as on YouTube would help those of us not familiar with this genre.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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