1. Input 4 bars intro 2. Input 16 bars verse 3. Set repeat to begin at bar 5 and last for 16 bars
Doesn't work. Plays continues as if the repeat sign wasn't there. Doesn't matter if I check "insert new bars" or not. That's dumb anyway. There are no new bars. There are 16 bars that are repeated. That's what "repeat" means. What does "insert new bars" actually mean?
4. Input 12 bars for solos. 5. Set new repeat to begin at bar 21 and last for 12 bars.
Works. Doesn't matter if I check "insert new bars" or not.
Don't tell me to write the whole thing out. That's dumb.
1. I don't care to. 2. I want to know if repeat works or not.
By the way, where's the explanation of the difference between a red repeat sign and a black one?
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
Thanks, but no. Already had the song beginning at 5. I put end at 100. Doesn't matter because the repeat either plays or not after measure 20. After that there may be any number of things, and indeed there is a 12 bar section with it's own repeat. And only 1 "chorus".
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
UNFOLD the song under the songs form.... rather than use repeats, unfold it to one linear song form....
Simply highlight the part you want to repeat.
Click, hold, and drag.... select COPY and then PASTE it to where you want the repeat to start.
Do the intro.... 4 bars... do the verse 16 bars.... copy the 16 bars.... Paste into bar 21.... waaa laaa... you have a repeat. write the chorus to the song or any solo parts... paste the verse again into the bar after the solo or chorus.... write any tags or insert the ending.
This is a very fast, simple, easy to use, and straightforward way to work in BB. It's linear in fashion so there's never any doubt where you are in the song.
Do you need to start in the middle of the second verse or at the beginning of the third verse? Just click there and press PLAY. No guesswork involved.
In a similar fashion, you can rearrange and delete unwanted parts of a song. To me, working in the UNFOLDED form is the "only way" to work.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 05/23/1602:24 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
But, repeats are supposed to work without unfolding.
If I understand the O/P's original request correctly, it was how to use repeats, not how to unfold so as not to use repeats.
I'm a little interested in what is the cause of his problem, not how to find an alternative delivery method.
Tom?
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
But, repeats are supposed to work without unfolding.
If I understand the O/P's original request correctly, it was how to use repeats, not how to unfold so as not to use repeats.
I'm a little interested in what is the cause of his problem, not how to find an alternative delivery method.
Tom?
Yes absolutely they are supposed to work and they likely do.
As a new user, I too tried to figure out how to make things work by the book using repeats and all the other musical road signs like DC al Coda.... etc... I found it to be very frustrating.
I personally like the path of least resistance when I'm being creative so once I discovered how to unfold, I found not one reason to worry with the road signs.
Yeah, he did ask about the repeats.... but perhaps he wasn't aware that a better way exists in the same way that I once didn't realize it either.
More power to you folks who know how to use the road signs in your songs. I have no problem with that whatsoever. I just want the fastest, easiest way to get that song down so I can get to the tracking.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
I think we first need to establish Tom means repeats, as in first / second ending kind, or simply as a repeat using the BIAB "number of choruses"
If it is the first, Guitarhacker's approach is certainly the easiest. It's not hard to add the endings, repeats, DS etc., once the basic linear song is created.
The basic BIAB chorus repeat is even simpler to create, although it has less flexibility. Based on what I see in Tom's initial question is that the song is exactly 20 bars long (not 100). The settings should be 5 / 16 / 3 (to the right of the tempo and key). For more 'repeats' change the 3 to what ever he needs. No need to change or add anything to the chord / melody structure.
What am I missing?
BIAB for Windows Version 2019 (643) Windows 10 (1909)
I looked at the tutorial, which seems to be the same as the help. Am I safe in assuming it is?
It says:
"It appears from looking at the chordsheet that this 32 bar form consists of two 16 bar sections, with a 1st ending at bar 9, and a 2nd ending at bar 25."
I don't get it. How did this chordsheet come to be? Who entered the chords that way, and why? It "appears to consist of" . . . didn't the person who wrote it know what he was doing? Just entering chords, tra la . . . and it happened to come out right?
To "repeat":
1. Input 4 bars intro 2. Input 16 bars verse 3. Set repeat to begin at bar 5 and last for 16 bars
Doesn't work. Doesn't matter if I check "insert new bars" or not. That's dumb anyway. There are no new bars. There are 16 bars that are repeated. That's what "repeat" means.
I think we first need to establish Tom means repeats, as in first / second ending kind, or simply as a repeat using the BIAB "number of choruses"
Neither. There's only one kind of repeat.
Quote:
These form markers are present for every song, unless you disable them by Preferences | Display. These are not the type of repeats/endings we’re referring to here however. The repeats/endings we are talking about now occur during the form, and are the 1st/2nd endings, DS al Coda and other repeat types that you see on a typical lead sheet.
Wrong on both counts.
1. The form markers enclose a part that is to be repeated. That is a repeat.
2. 1st/2nd endings etc. are navigation instructions, not repeats. You can have DS al coda without a repeat. Repeat means repeat.
Yes absolutely they are supposed to work and they likely do.
"Likely"?
Quote:
As a new user, I too tried to figure out how to make things work by the book using repeats and all the other musical road signs like DC al Coda.... etc... I found it to be very frustrating.
"Likely"?
This is what I found about "unfold":
Quote:
If you have a song with 3 choruses, and want to convert it to a single large chorus, this command "unfolds" the song into just that; one BIG chorus. This is useful for customizing a song (e.g., changing styles and/or patches at different bars, etc.)
This feature is accessible under the Edit menu.
I don't see what it has to do with repeats other than the whole-form repeat that BIAB inserts. I frequently have 2 repeats within a song and sometimes 3 or even 4. Not much point in unfolding them if I can't create them in the first place. What would I be unfolding?
In any case, my purpose is not to make style or patch changes. And if it were . . .
If you have 2 sections where the chords are identical, but there are patch or style changes, between them, it's not one section repeated, it's two different sections. Why would I want to disguise two sections as one with erroneous use of the repeat sign, implying that they are the same, when they aren't?
Yes absolutely they are supposed to work and they likely do.
"Likely"?
Quote:
As a new user, I too tried to figure out how to make things work by the book using repeats and all the other musical road signs like DC al Coda.... etc... I found it to be very frustrating.
"Likely"?
This is what I found about "unfold":
Quote:
If you have a song with 3 choruses, and want to convert it to a single large chorus, this command "unfolds" the song into just that; one BIG chorus. This is useful for customizing a song (e.g., changing styles and/or patches at different bars, etc.)
This feature is accessible under the Edit menu.
I don't see what it has to do with repeats other than the whole-form repeat that BIAB inserts. I frequently have 2 repeats within a song and sometimes 3 or even 4. Not much point in unfolding them if I can't create them in the first place. What would I be unfolding?
In any case, my purpose is not to make style or patch changes. And if it were . . .
If you have 2 sections where the chords are identical, but there are patch or style changes, between them, it's not one section repeated, it's two different sections. Why would I want to disguise two sections as one with erroneous use of the repeat sign, implying that they are the same, when they aren't?
Likely... yep,,,, I don't use them so I would assume it "likely" works like it's supposed too. I've seen folks ask this same question in the past. Like I mentioned earlier, I'm not a fanatic for following the music rules of the road regarding the signs.... if I can copy and paste to get it done faster and easier, I will do that. Unfolded, or in a linear form.... as PG calls it "one big chorus" I can see where I am in the song and whether I'm in the first or third verse. Doing that with signs is a bit more difficult. In addition, adding tags and other custom things to the song is a straightforward process of simply writing the chords that you want played rather than trying to figure out how to do tags with a triple repeat and then throw in a bridge, and back to the chorus for the tag all using the musical signs to tell BB where to go and how to get there. In my unfolded form, doing THAT is a breeze. Not so using signs.
Whether you use the musical signposts for the repeat ||: music :|| or if you simply use a copy and paste to duplicate the first verse several times, it all sounds exactly alike. So yeah, it's still a repeat of the music from the first verse no matter how you get it done.
I really do not mean to sound argumentative on this.... if you want to learn how to negotiate BB using signs, by all means, have at it and have fun. We need folks who know how to do that so that they can teach the new users the tricks of the trade. I'll just be over here unfolding and copying and pasting to get my repeats and I'll be suggesting that folks try this method too if they want to keep it simple.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
It's not hard to add the endings, repeats, DS etc., once the basic linear song is created.
I don't understand what you mean by "linear".
In writing music, you write sections, and then you add repeats and navigational directions, and you're done. That's how I've always done it. That's how it is on every piece of sheet music I've ever seen. What's the "basic linear" part?
In BIAB, repeats are essentially a print function. BIAB plays the song from the begining to the end, and the Fake book allows you to see and print the music as typical sheet music.
So a 32 bar song played 3 times through is in fact 96 bars in BIAB. If you layout your song this way, you can then add the repeats (and or endings, or DS) as needed.
This is the linear format that has been described.
BIAB for Windows Version 2019 (643) Windows 10 (1909)
In writing music, you write sections, and then you add repeats and navigational directions, and you're done. That's how I've always done it. That's how it is on every piece of sheet music I've ever seen. What's the "basic linear" part?
Linear simply means from measure 1 through the last measure in a complete and straightforward direction. No repeating of what has been played already.... in other words you don't ever jump back.... you always are going on to the next measure. Follow the yellow brick road.
That's what happens to the folded up song when you UNFOLD it. It becomes linear. NO navigational beacons or road signs are needed. You're always moving to the very next measure....always.
You can still write sections. You simply copy and paste them if you need to repeat that section. There's no need for navigational directions. You never reverse direction or go back. You simply and only move forward.
In this format, you know exactly where you are, you know what's coming, and there are no surprises. Adding new parts, bridges, tags, spacial events, choruses, more verses, are very, very easy to do. NO programming of the repeats and where to go, or "how do I do this or that?" .... you simply progress from one measure to the next in a forward direction adding the musical chords as you need them. And heaven forbid you want to change something in a folded song's verse without changing the other verses to match. In Linear, no problem. Just make that change and it only happens where you made the change.
Since BB can easily handle somewhere around 250 (or more) measures, and the average song is generally less than half that number, working in the linear is really the best way to work. Once you try working linear, there's a good chance you will not go back to folded song form. Unfolding is literally the FIRST thing I do when I start a new project.
EDIT: I write a verse and a chorus. I copy and paste the verse where I want it to repeat.... I do likewise with the chorus.... I insert 8 blank measures to add a bridge if I need it and type in the chords, I might copy half or a full verse for the solo depending.... and then I copy the last line of the chorus and paste it a few times for a tag. It is simple and takes less time to build a song in this manner than it does to figure out the placement of the nav beacons and make it all work like it's supposed to with the repeats and the "go to here's".... If you're doing much more than a simple repeat, using the signs can become confusing.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 05/24/1602:21 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
I've just finished going through it. This is the first time I've used the repeats, codas, etc and it took me about 15 minutes.
These are my observations from the exercise...
1. Performances are always linear and like an orchestra or a jazz group, etc., BIAB plays linearly from the start of the song to the end of the song. In this regard, BIAB is not like sheet music. As I see it, sheet music is a navigational, notational summary of a song while BIAB is the linear performance of a song.
2. Even when the different forms of repeats and partial repeats of a section are enabled in BIAB, BIAB still performs linearly. It's just that the display of the music is pulled together so that it represents sheet music format. This is what Dave is meaning.
If you haven't yet done so, I encourage you to open "Miles1 Tutorial (no repeats yet)" in BIAB and follow the instructions in the tutorial. After doing that, I think you'll see what I mean when you use the Fakesheet button as suggested in the tutorial.
To see how the 'insert bars' work, try this exercise...
1. Make sure that the Fakesheet mode is enabled by selecting the top option as shown below (that is, "Display chord sheet in fake sheet mode").
2. Start a new song (File | New). The chord sheet will be 32 bars long with C in bar 1.
3. Enter an 8-bar chord progression.
4. Right-click on bar 8, and select "Repeat/Codas/1st-2nd Endings".
5. Follow the 1, 2, 3, 4 on the image below.
6. After you've clicked on "Ok, Make Repeat" click on the "Fakesheet" button again and deactivate the top option "Display chord sheet in fake sheet mode".
What you'll now see is your original 8-bar chord pattern repeated in greyed-out bars 9 - 16. This is what BIAB will be playing once the song is generated. To this end, the process has automatically created the bars that BIAB will need for playback. For visual convenience, though, once the Fakesheet mode is enabled, the performance will take on the appearance of sheet music.
A number of different kinds of repeats can be defined in a single song.
Overall, what BIAB does is to take sheet-music-like instructions and convert them into performance-styled linear playback. The Fakesheet toggle allows the view to be in the style of sheet music or a linear performance. At the end of the day, just like Dave said, the same number of bars will be used whichever way you go.
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