PG Music Home Forums General Discussion Off-Topic Separate Drums In BIAB

While chasing this problem I have lost my Sample Tank Drum sounds(and all other ST sounds) all together. Until I find them ??? I will not be able to fix the situation, as the drum sounds now are coyote wave table sounds, not the ones I want to use.

Probably the default MIDI synth selection.
Try going back to the MIDI Devices area and check the setting for 'Reroute all MIDI to Default DXi Synth', then select the synth of choice.

I'll try that

" (and remember millions of top40 hits use MIDI drums in the first place) and after re-mix they sound better than Real Drums."

Ya know Notes, you are always making statements like this, but never posting examples or proof to back it up. The videos & audio on your site sounds like every other midi band I have heard, better than most, but not as "pro" and "better" like you state all the time.

This is NOT a slam on your music or sound, but Midi is Midi, and there are very few folks who can program it convincingly.

Now, as for EDITING midi, that is fine, it IS quicker than audio for sure. And using the Midi you can improve on the drum sound, especially badly recorded drums. But a well recorded kit will sound better than ANY midi-replaced triggered samples, mainly because the samples used will never match up to the rest of the kit......unless you replace the whole kit, and then what is the use? Real drummers have a saying about midi done like this...

"Count to four & be a bore"

Having a REAL drummers performance across multiple tracks would be light years ahead in quality to any midi, except for music that needs a locked-to-the-clock beat.

A tool I have used with fantastic results for years is a free-b called Toontrack Drumtracker. It pulls the hits out of an audio track & converts them to Midi, keeping the feel of the track. It has been gone for awhile now, but there are other programs out there that can do the same, and the drums will sound way better than any midi track.

I am working on getting net access at my new digs next week, and when I do I will get a demo up of what I am talking about.

As for the op request, this has been made before, but really a few of us in my area just does not see it happening. If you take a look at the Smart Loops Multi-Track Loops, that would be the way to do it. You have a Stereo File to build the track, and then when you are ready to mix you import the matching multi-tracks. The problem with that is you would need to have ALL the multi-tracks from the start, for this reason alone...

Each mic picks up the sound of other drums & cymbals. If you start trying to just extract each sound out a stereo file & then rebuild the track on separate ones, it will sound funny & disconnected...try it and see.

After a few listens, even in a mix, you will notice it....

rharv I been messing around in RB adding new RealTracks in blank tracks. I posed in a different thread that I wanted individual percussion instrument RealDrums. Like a tambourine RealDrum sound, wood block,or cowbell. Easily an addition to RealDrum library of sounds that would only require PG to record realdrum individual tracks for these instruments. Then the issue would be, changing the playback speed of a single track in RealBand so the cowbell would sync with the other drum track. Or maybe that already happens when you generate a new track in RB I'm not sure

As others have mentioned, if you open up the RealDrum tracks, there are a series of isolated hits at the end. Not a terribly extensive collection - only a single velocity per hit - but it'll do in a pinch.

I was mixing a track last week that had a 6/8 RealDrum track. The feel was perfect... But the drummer wouldn't let up on the cymbals, and I needed something a bit less overblown on the verses.

I couldn't find anything comparable in my MIDI drum library, and didn't really feel like playing the track in by hand. I ended up grabbing the samples from the end of the RealDrum track and putting together a new performance in my DAW, using the original track as a guide.

I'm sure that a drummer would hear the difference in a moment. Fortunately, drummers weren't the target audience.

Because I used the isolated hits from the end of the track, I didn't end up with the bleed you're talking about, and the track matched the other sections.

But it would have been so much easier with multitrack drums... Just turn down the cymbals, and live with a bit of microphone bleed.

For a drummer it is may be possible to go to the end of track pluck out the correct sound and then place into the DAW track in just the right place. For a guitarist like myself its impossible. I would like something more user friendly, like individual drum tracks.

Maybe for your needs a loop would work better.
RB handles loops just fine as well as RealTracks.
The loop should automatically adjust the speed if your tempo is correct. There are thousands of free loops out there.

That said, getting the individual instruments has nothing to do with being a drummer, really. I do it and I am not a drummer by any means.
It is easy once you do it.

Open the actual wma file in RB, scroll to end, highlight the drum, copy/paste to another track and export it as a wav.
For example; bb\Drums\BluesRockSlowEv^\BluesRockSlowEv^_085_Style.wma

Now you have a sample. Doing each drum is pretty quick as they are all in a row usually. Within minutes you have your own kit of samples.

Copy/Paste these samples or open them up inside a sample player and use that as a VSTi.. a virtual realdrum set controlled by MIDI.
I have been given permission to give this one away:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb01/articles/fxpansion.asp
(click the pic to enlarge)

It's an older version, but works well for what it is.
PG should see about licensing it and having MIDI'd realdrums available in the software.
It's great when you need to add a crash or a ride to a section, etc.

rharv,

Thanks for posting the above, it's an incredibly creative solution for customising Realdrums.

Noel

The mentioned player is here -
http://www.masteringmatters.com/stuff/DR005.zip

Unzipping the file will reveal a text file with the free license number and a second zip file containing the actual plugin.
FXPansion gave me both the license number and permission to share on this forum.

@rharv I'm not trying to pluck out the sounds that are in a Real Drum Track, bass drum hihat etc. I'm trying to add a tambourine to a song. Or a wood block, cowbell.

I have listened to a whole lot of loops in BIAB library. Unsuccessfully placed them in BIAB or RB, by generating the track. Mine are not adjusting automatically to the tempo.

Also I have been digging through the loops, which are mostly BASS/Drum Crazy sounds, Electronic type no loops of single percussion instruments.

Loops are all over the internet for what you are after .. if it were me and I just wanted to add a cowbell on the beat, I'd grab a sample and copy/paste. Do a measure, then copy/paste that measure 200 times or whatever.. If I wanted a more complex pattern I'd consider my options.

Not saying I dislike your idea of RDs like this, I was just trying to help get the job done.
I'm used to just going with what I know works; have to when people are standing around looking at you. (grin)

When you open a loop in RB, look at the name; it will give the tempo and number of bars (like 132,4)
So in the Tempo box below I make sure the Tempo matches (132) and the number of beats matches (16 since it is 4 bars 4/4) and the Stretch check box is enabled .. then they line right up.

FWIW I just tested using the Tambourine Loop included in RB and it worked as expected here.

Sometimes you have to futz with downloaded ones, but many seem to work well. Especially if you know two items above concerning the downloaded file. I always check the description when downloading to see if that data is available.

rharv "FWIW I just tested using the Tambourine Loop included in RB and it worked as expected here."

I was looking in the BIAB Style picker for tambourine/wood blocks/cowbell/claves etc loops. I didn't know there were loops in RB.

Here they are located in the File structure below
(an internal hard disk copy of my everythingPak I keep updated as much as I can)
E:\BB_HardDriveBU\EverythingPAK\bb\RealTracks\Loops

Or select Generate Loop from right-click, etc

Generate the track in RB not try to add it as a RT in BIAB?

I *think* BiaB supports Loops too, but by the time I am to this point I would already be in RB. (just my work flow)
Hopefully others chime in.

I use BiaB to get chords and a basic style .. after that I move to RB right away. So any loop work here would be using RB.

rharv WOW was I missing the boat here. Finally understanding how to use loops in BIAB. I started with a style that had Bass Piano and Drums. It had the right feel. Then I right clicked on the Drum track and selected "select a loop for this track" What I think happened when I choose a loop. It added it to the drum track? The loop had a whistle like sound, a triangle like sound and a rather good kick sound. I had to scroll all the way down to get the loop. And I didn't write down the loop name, rats, I was just testing it out. Great groove I muted the piano, added a jazz guitar and created a custom style.

It probably put it wherever the cursor was. Remember to rewind first.
Set cursor on first bar you want loop to start.

Like I said there are tons around the web.

Try it in RB too, works pretty much the same way, but easier to set a From-Thru and generate just sections you want. ..