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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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When I hit a note on my keyboard, thee is a delay before I hear the note from BiaB. I am using a M-Audio USB to midi interface. Is there a setting to eliminate this or maybe I have to select a different sound. It seems there is about a 1/2 second delay.
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A half second is typical for a basic windows setup using MME drivers. This would be the default settings.
What synth is sending the MIDI and what synth is playing the MIDI (generating the actual sound) and what sound cards/interfaces do you have available?
Knowing these 3 things helps narrow down the answer a bunch (especially 2&3)
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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At this time I am attempting to use what comes with BiaB and Win 10 and this means MME. I read that I should install an ASIO4ALL driver that I will do tomorrow. With this delay, it is impossible to play the keyboard and hear what you are playing so there must be a way to solve this.
Am I asking for to much? I would like to play my midi keyboard along with the BiaB sounds.
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Using ASIO drivers should significantly reduce the latency and allow you to play in real time.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
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Yes... Download the ASIO driver from the manufacturer's web site or load it from the installation disk.... be sure it's the most recent ASIO version for that interface.
ASIO is much better for your interface and it's possible you may need to make some tweeks to the latency and buffers settings but you should be able to easily get the latency numbers under 10ms with ASIO. Anything less that 10ms is practically real time. It's the equivalent delay one hears being 10 feet from the stage amp in a band.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Yes, definitely go with ASIO drivers. Steinberg invented the concept. Their main goal was to virtually eliminate latency.
Guitar Hacker: great info. I never knew what the "real world" affect was. 10 ms = roughly 10 feet away. Good to know!! Thanks.
Gear: Tyros 5, MOX8, SoundCraft EFX12 mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, Yamaha HS-8 monitors, BIAB 2016 UltraPlusPAK, Cubase 8, Steinberg UR-44 interface.
"If everyone played a musical instrument, we wouldn't need police officers or armies." Lee B.
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That's a handy little thing to remember, but it is off by about 10% I think 1ms is actually closer to 11 feet .. 
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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The ASIO4ALL driver fixed the problem. The latency is minimal now. Thanks all.
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Great. Thanks for letting us know it resolved for you.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
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That's a handy little thing to remember, but it is off by about 10% I think 1ms is actually closer to 11 feet .. You misplaced the decimal point.... it's closer to 1.1 feet per second. Do the math. Sound travels approximately 1100 ft per second depending on a number of factors including altitude and temperature.... it takes approximately 5 seconds to travel a mile.... the old count to 5 to determine how far away lightning is from you, we learned as kids... 1100 feet in a second is 1.1 feet per millisecond (Thousandths of a second. The rule of one foot per millisecond works well enough for rock and roll.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Which is why a player sitting at a piano is still getting about a 3ms delay from their fingers hitting the keys to the hammer hitting the string to hearing the sound. It cracks me up on some forums where people say they just can't play at 10ms, the delay is too much. Riiight.
Barryjo, to clarify something you wrote, Biab has no sound, it's a midi generator. Midi is simply computer commands telling a synthesizer what sounds to play. It's the synth that makes the sound. All PG does is include the Wavetable so you can hear something but it's pretty weak. What synth you think has the best sounds is up to you. Synths can be hardware or software. The best ones can cost thousands, good ones several hundred and so-so ones $40-50.
Also, midi has nothing to do with the Real Tracks/Drums. Those are audio files, not midi.
Bob
Last edited by jazzmammal; 07/01/16 05:55 AM.
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Which is why a player sitting at a piano is still getting about a 3ms delay from their fingers hitting the keys to the hammer hitting the string to hearing the sound. It cracks me up on some forums where people say they just can't play at 10ms, the delay is too much. Riiight.
Bob Bob, I have read that very few people can detect delay below 15ms and the no one can hear a delay below 10ms. Some can hear delay between 15-20 ms and everyone can hear delay over 20 ms. Any one who says they can hear a delay below 10ms cracks me up also.
I arrived early to a restaurant.
The manager asks, "do you mind waiting a bit?"
I said no.
"Good", he said. "Take these drinks to table 3"
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Just some thoughts;
I used to play guitar in a 6 - 8 piece worship team with a drummer that played an early design Roland V-Drums set. The sound module claimed something like an un-noticable 8 ms latency. I guess that's the time from hitting a trigger to processing the sound through the headphone jack or other output. But, when he monitored only through floor monitors via aux sends from Front Of House "analog" mixer he always seemed late and everybody would follow whatever the actual latency was in the monitors. Then he would correct his trigger strikes by feel of stick on drum head to the band which would then sound late again and in no time everybody was way out of timing. Even though the his floor monitor was right next to his throne this still happened. I connected a KC500 keyboard amp from the sound module and put it right behind him facing forward. Somehow this solved the problem. Don't know why. I suspect he is naturally a late drummer and the keyboard amp just had a better feel than monitors. So, I wonder if some of us have our own human latency that adds to it all. Hopefully we can adjust that to stay on better timing. Kind of like learning to shake a maraca. You have to end your swing/snap a little early so the beads inside strike at the right time. Same might go for those sensitive to computer latency. Practice to get use to the feel, if that even works.
Does the noise in your head bother me ?
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Bob, Mario, you're probably right. But I've had audio engineers tell me no one can hear pitch differences of less than six cents, until I thoroughly proved them wrong. Maybe there is somebody out there who can hear tiny delay.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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FWIW
It wasn't the math, it was a typo, I could have swore I quoted your 10 Ms example .. not 1 ms .. getting old I guess.
What I meant to say was 10 ms (your example) is closer to 11 feet than 10 .. and it was meant as humor.. nobody is going to notice the extra foot.
It's amazing the times we live in; we can generate a sound from software in our computer quicker than the actual sound being 12 ft away.
In reality we still need to account for the actual distance we are from the speakers. So in reality, maybe 15' away for many .. but still very acceptable.
Sorry, a bit of humor gone awry.
Last edited by rharv; 07/01/16 01:52 PM.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Very enlightening, guys! I've played some very large stages where the lead guitarist was 40 or more feet away. The sound operator always asked me if I wanted a wee bit of guitar in my monitor. I always said, "Hell no because they are always so friggin' loud. I can hear him just fine." Trouble is, the songs didn't "feel" right. Based on the formula, the time delay would be about 44 ms! It would be made worse by the fact the amp was pointed toward the audience and not at me! I assume 44 ms is quite significant. I'll never turn down the guitar monitor feed again. Also, monitor speakers of old were absolute crap. Fortunately, most companies have revamped their designs so monitors are now full range. In my earlier example, I wonder if it be beneficial to bleed some bass guitar through as well? Some how I doubt it because bass waves are extremely long and you're also getting a fair amount of side wash from the subs. I know we're drifting off topic a bit but this is very important. We're also still talking about producing quality music - Dr. Peter's life-long goal .
Last edited by Lee Batchelor; 07/02/16 02:52 AM.
Gear: Tyros 5, MOX8, SoundCraft EFX12 mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, Yamaha HS-8 monitors, BIAB 2016 UltraPlusPAK, Cubase 8, Steinberg UR-44 interface.
"If everyone played a musical instrument, we wouldn't need police officers or armies." Lee B.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Very enlightening, guys! I've played some very large stages where the lead guitarist was 40 or more feet away. The sound operator always asked me if I wanted a wee bit of guitar in my monitor. I always said, "Hell no because they are always so friggin' loud. I can hear him just fine." Trouble is, the songs didn't "feel" right. Based on the formula, the time delay would be about 44 ms! It would be made worse by the fact the amp was pointed toward the audience and not at me! I assume 44 ms is quite significant. I'll never turn down the guitar monitor feed again. Also, monitor speakers of old were absolute crap. Fortunately, most companies have revamped their designs so monitors are now full range. In my earlier example, I wonder if it be beneficial to bleed some bass guitar through as well? Some how I doubt it because bass waves are extremely long and you're also getting a fair amount of side wash from the subs. I know we're drifting off topic a bit but this is very important. We're also still talking about producing quality music - Dr. Peter's life-long goal . And that's the beauty of those in-ear-monitoring systems..... no matter where you go, as long as the IEM's have radio signal, you have a no-latency audio feed to keep perfect time. As a player in a 3 piece band, we had to learn the hard way about latency on large stages. After a few gigs where things just "didn't seem right" we learned that no matter how big the stage, we needed to build our nest in the center/front and keep everything close just like the small club stages we played. That solved the issue.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Great idea, Guitarhacker. Just because you own three acres of land doesn't mean you need to place the house, garage, and pool 700 feet apart  .
Gear: Tyros 5, MOX8, SoundCraft EFX12 mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, Yamaha HS-8 monitors, BIAB 2016 UltraPlusPAK, Cubase 8, Steinberg UR-44 interface.
"If everyone played a musical instrument, we wouldn't need police officers or armies." Lee B.
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Unless you haven't cleaned the lead singer, er ...ah .... I mean the pool in a few months 
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One time in Des Moines, it took me 2 minutes to play the "Minute Waltz" because of latency!!
Having fun!
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