Like 99% of us on these forums, I am a user. I've been using BIAB since 2006. It's because of my years of experience as a PG Music customer that I cannot let your below comment pass without my thoughts being added.
When you say...
Originally Posted By: Joe 5
... so they can frankly afford to be complacent/apathetic about improving things that never should have made it to production in the first place...
... I just want to point out that the above is both incorrect and unfair. PG Music are a very progressive company. Peter Gannon and his team have created an outstanding product that has made significant developmental strides in music and backing track production as computer technology has grown. As far as I can tell, 'complacency' is not in Dr Gannon's vocabulary.
Comparing the 2008 version of BIAB to today's version is like comparing 2008 computers to today's computers. Similarly, trying to fully appreciate the abilities of 2016-generation computing power by only using a computer from 2008 is paralleled in trying to fully understand Band In A Box 2016 by only using Band In A Box 2008.
And what's cool about this place Joe is how many well known software companies do you get to talk to the big guy directly?
lol - true. Although I doubt Bill Gates would want to hear it either. And again, it clearly has a ton of capability, and it sounds like it's made great strides since 08, design-wise.
Originally Posted By: Noel96
I just want to point out that the above is both incorrect and unfair. PG Music are a very progressive company. Peter Gannon and his team have created an outstanding product that has made significant developmental strides in music and backing track production as computer technology has grown. As far as I can tell, 'complacency' is not in Dr Gannon's vocabulary.
For the sake of argument, I'll concede that I can't say the whys and wherefores, and that certainly wasn't meant about any one person.....it was just an initial impression based on what I saw of this version, and my impression is there are more than a few (including avid users) who would not disagree. Maybe it was simply a lack of good UI (or as it's called now days, "UX") designers....
Quote:
Comparing the 2008 version of BIAB to today's version is like comparing 2008 computers to today's computers.
Ah, not really. 2008 computers were well designed, given the technology of the time. In fact, they weren't all that far behind today's PCs.
Anyway, enough on all that. It's certainly worth a look, regardless of the UI, and I have already said so to others. See I'm not all bad.
I never thought you were bad at all!!! LOL I think that once you start using the software you'll be impressed.
Even today, 10 years later, the program amazes me. That all I need to do is to enter a chord progression and click on a button to generate a backing seems incredible.
Yeah, I hear ya. In fact I can see how this would be an invaluable tool for a solo act to have a "backing band"....but for my needs (composition), not so sure. For ex a concern is it sounds too "canned" and there would be a zillion other people with something that sounds almost exactly the same out there. Probably what I would use it for mostly would be backing percussion, which needn't really be "original."
))) Yeah, I hear ya. In fact I can see how this would be an invaluable tool for a solo act to have a "backing band"....but for my needs (composition), not so sure. For ex a concern is it sounds too "canned" and there would be a zillion other people with something that sounds almost exactly the same out there. Probably what I would use it for mostly would be backing percussion, which needn't really be "original." -------
They are all original compositions that use Band-in-a-Box to some extent. If you listen to them, I'd be surprised if you still say "it sounds too "canned" and there would be a zillion other people with something that sounds almost exactly the same out there"
since there are over 2,000 Realtracks representing 2,500 hours of studio music recordings,it isn't likely that there are zillions of similar arrangements. That is one reason we are encouraging you to move up from the 2008 version, which was MIDI, and not real musicians,
...for my needs (composition), not so sure. For ex a concern is it sounds too "canned" and there would be a zillion other people with something that sounds almost exactly the same out there.
Joe,
I'm not a performer. I only ever use BIAB for composition. I love the freedom that the program gives me in that I can compose in whatever genre I want - even if I'm not experienced in that genre. My writing ability has increased hugely thanks to BIAB.
Here's a link to my latest song. It was a collaboration with other BIAB users. The backing is entirely BIAB (finger-picking guitar, strumming guitar, bass, drums and cello).
Also, if you go to the audio link in my signature, you'll be able to hear some of the songs I've put together. They all involve backings created by BIAB. Sometimes those backings are exactly as generated and sometimes I've taken generated tracks and used copy and paste in a DAW to isolate instrumental hooks etc. The bottom line is that BIAB produces amazing audio material to work with in whatever way a user wants to.
Because of the way that PG Music's technology works, chances of a backing that anyone creates sounding exactly like someone else's is slim. This is because each time a track is generated, there's an algorithm that's applied that creates independent variations.
Quite honestly, creating music has been a huge part of my life since BIAB gave me musical freedom. Most days, I will spend around 2 - 4 hours composing, arranging or refining my songs.
if "it sounds too "canned" and there would be a zillion other people with something that sounds almost exactly the same out there"
then it is a 'radio' ready tune....
This was discussed recently in another thread where I explained how I used the RealBand multiriff feature on a single track for guitar solo/fills choosing 18 selections from the track each generating 7 multiriffs. That is a total of 126 distinct and different phrase generations. Some of those 126 selections were then chosen and using cut/paste technique - grafted into a singularly unique phrase that does not exist in the 2500 plus hours of recorded audio RealTracks.
I will leave it to you to calculate the odds that another forum member could duplicate that track. But, to satisfy your curiosity, choose a top quality sounding User Showcase forum song and even with having much of the BIAB information used to create that song, see for yourself how accurately you can duplicate that song note for note or phrase by phrase. It is more difficult than it would seem when we all are using the same material. That is also not accounting for the addition of live recorded instruments, loops, samples and pre-recorded material.
The bottom line is that you can produce as professional and unique quality music as you are willing to take time and effort to put into it.
BIAB/RB is a trade skill that can be learned the same as carpentry, auto mechanics, playing piano or guitar. Some will learn more quickly, some will have more natural talent but everyone can obtain a working level skill with the software.
Yeah, I hear ya. In fact I can see how this would be an invaluable tool for a solo act to have a "backing band"....but for my needs (composition), not so sure. For ex a concern is it sounds too "canned" and there would be a zillion other people with something that sounds almost exactly the same out there. Probably what I would use it for mostly would be backing percussion, which needn't really be "original."
Joe, if you are using the latest BIAB with all of the RealTracks to choose from I think this is a very small issue! You might happen to cross paths with another BIAB user and then an even smaller chance that they would also use the same style as you and then even smaller chance that all settings (tempo, key, pan, f/x, etc.) would be the same, and like someone else said, even for identical parameters BIAB will produce differences in the tracks it outputs.
But, just for a minute let's entertain the idea that maybe there is a chance your choice of RealTracks would sound similar to another users. Why would that matter if your needs are composition? I find that I can site down with a basic idea on guitar and quickly flesh it out using BIAB. Because I can try so many things with BIAB it actually assists me in composing the groove and feel for my song. Then, once I get close to something finished (are they ever finished?) I have the choice of removing one or more or all BIAB tracks and playing those myself!
And I have not even touched on the fact that you do not have to accept what BIAB generates! You can go into RealBand and use multi-riff feature to generate tons of alternatives. Then you can even export any or all of the RealTrack riffs or smaller pieces and bring those into your DAW for assembly into something completely unique.
Simply put...BIAB, using RealTracks, does not produce music anyone will think is "canned"!
What strikes me as ridiculous is - here is a guy using someone elses 8 year old version not even his own and dare I say cloned/copied to his machine and daring to whinge about lack of modern features. Put your money where your mouth is, buy the 2016 ULTRAPLUSPAK on a 30 day money back guarantee. What's to lose?
Old Guys Rule.The older I get,the better I was! BB2023 ULTRA, 1013, Win 7 and 10
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
What strikes me as ridiculous is - here is a guy using someone elses 8 year old version not even his own and dare I say cloned/copied to his machine and daring to whinge about lack of modern features.
What strikes me as ridiculous is someone who can't spell a complex word like "whine."
And I dare say that even if you knew how to spell, you post indicates a severe lack of reading comprehension. I have borrowed someone else's laptop with BIAB on it and I'm not "whinging" about a lack of modern features. But thanks for the snotty reply, and pardon me if I didn't pay homage to the BIAB God properly like the rest of you groupies.
Apologies to those of you who are worth apologizing to for this silly sidetrack; I'll reply as applicable later, getting a bit late here.....but bottom line, "will sound exactly the same" was definitely over the top on my part and poorly worded; obviously the overall songs won't be the same. More of a general concern about the tracks I'd be using that are used by so many others and therefore still too similar in that way for me.
"most buttons, including ones most people would rarely use, crammed to the right in the middle of the screen....um.....what?"
Not sure what use you need biab for, instant fast song generation, live accompaniment, songwriting, making up songs out of the box for the user song showcase, hobby, studio work to add track/s to a session, CD's.
BIAB is a six shooter, it will quickly shoot out six tracks, if you don't like a track you can have another shot but it's the whole track you get each time, you can't change some bars or chords you don't like without having to shoot out another complete track/s. It was originally designed/made by musicians for musicians for auto accompaniment for them hence "Band in a Box", it runs 100% in ram.
There is another program that is included with the purchase called "RealBand" that not many people even know or bother to get to know as all the promotion and neon is all about "BIAB" as the be all to end all.
Real band contains biab that it calls on to generate up tracks or any sections.
You can have as many tracks as you like (48), as many bars as you like. You can see and edit the wavforms of every track. You have node control of the waveform like fadein/fadeout. You can change any/all section/chords of any/all audio/midi track/s without having to re-generate the whole track/s. You can have as many realdrum tracks as you like, no need to request more percussion tracks for BIAB crammed GUI. You can have multitrack drum stems. You can import a midi and it will split the instruments to separate tracks. You can split a midi drum track to separate hit tracks. You can make the tracks unique more so and using direct input instruments add your FX/modeling to get the sound you need, and https://www.kvraudio.com/product/redshift-pickup-replacer-by-acmebargig on the DI
I started with biab but I found real band and could see and edit everything without having to type a lot of numbers in to change things and going deep within the many menu and page trees.
There is an actual site www.realband.org that has so much info on the unknown app.
If you want more creative control then Real band.
But if you like things done automatically for you, happy to take what you get and auto accompaniment is what you need by all means BIAB.
And I dare say that even if you knew how to spell, you post indicates a severe lack of reading comprehension.
I will presume that you meant "your post", not "you post" and it was just a simple typographical error, as opposed to a "severe lack of reading comprehension".
And by the way, just because Americans say whine, doesn't mean that's universal for all English speakers.
Quote:
whinge /wɪndʒ/
verb (intransitive) whinges, whingeing, whinged
1. to cry in a fretful way
2. to complain
noun
3. a complaint
Derived Forms
whingeing, noun, adjective whinger, noun
Word Origin
from a Northern variant of Old English hwinsian to whine; related to Old High German winsan, winisan, whence Middle High German winsen
John
Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 12TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 12TB SATA
By the way, for those who weren't around at the time, or need a refresher, here's the BIAB 2008 New Features Video that Peter Gannon did. This was the version that introduced RealTracks, and contained ... drum roll, please ... a total of three, yes, three soloist RealTracks. You got a Pedal Steel, a Sax soloist, and an Acoustic Guitar. That was it. It wasn't until 2008.5 that we got more RealTracks, and of course, now we have thousands, plus UserTracks.
And BIAB 2008.5 introduced RealTracks sets 2-9, which then gave us a total of 63 RealTracks. We've come a long way since then:
John
Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 12TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 12TB SATA
I do not normally chip in but personally I am only fixated what BIAB and RB does for me ...
Create GREAT backing tracks
I have been using it for over 10 years now ...still very happy with it.
Even though many moan about its clunkiness I am still amazed at the sheer brilliance of what it actually achieves for ME.
Yes John, I remember the 3 realtracks, I could not believe at the time what they did ... who remembers how long it actually took those first few versions to render?
I am far more happy with the LOADS of realtracks and performance improvements, the way that you can regenerate pieces of RB tracks to audition solos to make the Real Track artists do for free (and with pleasure) what we used to coax fellow musicians to do when I was younger.
This tool allows me to have more fun and pleasure that even Peter Gannon ever thought I could get from this software.....
IT DOES WHAT IT PROMISED ...
(this is my opinion only and I cannot speak for any one else)
If I discovered it only today and could wrap my mind around the surrealistic job that it does and the quality that it outputs , I WOULD BUY IT AGAIN , no questions asked.
I'm doing allright for Country Trash ....
I used to care, but things have changed (Bob Dylan)
Thanks for those clips from the past! The program has certainly grown exponentially since then. I remember those three realtracks and I couldn't believe how awesome they sounded.... musical innovation at the cutting edge of technology. Back then, who could have predicted just how far that initial technology would progress by 2016.
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And again, it clearly has a ton of capability, and it sounds like it's made great strides since 08, design-wise. 
I think that once you start using the software you'll be impressed.
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