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Hi all,
I occasionally come across pop and rock songs that I am figuring out the chords for - that have a brief change in time signature to add interest. In fact - many times I didn't realize the change until I tried to write down how long each bar is held.
If you know of some songs that do this type of thing - please share Youtube links and the section (minute number or section or words from verse) where it happens.
Other than practicing along with songs that have done this - I'm not sure if there's any other way to get better at it. Let me know if you have any ideas or articles.
Last edited by Joe V; 08/25/16 04:21 AM.
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Purple Rain goes from 4/4 to 2/4 for one measure when Prince sings "in the purple" and "to the purple rain": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6IlECn56ooI got this from the sheet music which by the way I believe is the best way to learn new songs. Listen to the song then read the music. Sometimes the sheet music is not exactly as the singer sung the song but most of the time it is either spot on or very close.
OK, a random thought;
Why does toilet paper need a commercial? Who's not buying it?
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Purple Rain goes from 4/4 to 2/4 for one measure. Nice. I actually have that book and forgot about that. Thanks for the reminder!
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Call Me by Blondie. Just find it on YT, you'll hear the 2/4 bar in the bridge section. She sings the bridge then the synth solos over the same changes including the 2/4 bar.
This is very common btw. Pop/Rock tunes have simple changes in 4/4 and they throw in these off beat bars to add interest. It really grabs your ear when you hear it.
It also completely messes up wannabe players too which I've always thought the stars get a chuckle over..."Here cover bands eat THIS..."
Bob
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Probably one of the more strange ones that took me forever to figure out was Matt Kearney's "Nothing Left To Lose" which is a pretty common 4/4 song, that throws a 3/4 curveball in the middle of each chorus. https://youtu.be/a7YP4k7rMucWhen I was learning this song for ye olde guy with a guitar coffeehouse performances it took me way too long to figure this out and I was always out of sync with the song. I mean, c'mon, this guy is just a plain vanilla Coldplay wannabe guy right? What's he doing throwing that in there? Because it is what grabs the ear and makes the chorus just a little bit more catchy. Just make sure where to switch to 3/4 and you're good.
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Bacharach and Cat Stevens did this all the time. That's what makes their music so recognizable.
Off the top of my head for Bacharach, think: "I'll never fall in love again", "I say a little prayer for you", "Anyone who had a heart", "The Look Of Love" (stacks more).
But one of the absolute classics has to be Lennon and McCartney's: "Fool on the Hill" which opens in 3/4 and switches to 4/4 at the chorus. Pure, sweet genius - musically and lyrically. Nothing less.
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Another Beatles tune; "We Can Work It Out" shifts from 4/4 to 3/4 after the lines "For fussing and fighting my friend" and "So I will ask you once again".
Link Wray's "Rumble" has a measure of 2/4 added when he changes to the V7 (B7) chord.
Frank
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Right, The Look Of Love, I hadn't done it in 20 years. I had to crack the book and do it a couple weeks ago and that 2/4 bar almost tripped me up. I was thinking "what was it about this tune?" scanned the chart, went "Oh yeah, that's it" while the leader counted it off.
Bob
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Right, The Look Of Love, I hadn't done it in 20 years. I had to crack the book and do it a couple weeks ago and that 2/4 bar almost tripped me up. I was thinking "what was it about this tune?" scanned the chart, went "Oh yeah, that's it" while the leader counted it off.
Bob Sergio Mendez and Brazil '66 did the most amazing cover of this. Bacharach has a way of making his and Hal David's material seem like nothing special is happening. Most listeners wouldn't notice those time changes - and it is that subtlety where the magic of their music lies.
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And You and I
Close to the Edge
Long Distance Runaround
yeah I went there .. If the drummer is playing 5/4 while the rest of the band continues in disciplined 4/4 until it meets up again (basically 20 beats), is it a time change? Sheet music says no, but the feel says Yes. <grin>
Some say it's 5/8 but I feel it as 5/4.
Most of what makes this song sound odd time (but still works) is the odd time is the drummer, the rest of the band is just playing with when to accent the one main off-beat hit they all do during the verses. Otherwise they are using pretty consistent time sig.
/I'm nerdy like that; I have old copies of Yes books containing all their sheet music .. Anthology 1 & 2 (Close to the Edge and after) .. Fragile .. and one other I can't remember right now (dang CRS, this means there may be more than one). I also have Weather Report 8:30, and some other obscure ones. Maybe a Jean-Luc or two. I like odd time and time changes a lot. I find them very interesting. I like to learn.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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I was also a big Yes fan - their music is very esoteric and obscure - not easy for new listeners. I think it's one of those things you have to acquire a taste for, generally speaking, in your younger years. It must sound bizarre to young kids today. The interesting thing about these quick measures in different times is how natural they feel - unless you're looking for them, you would almost never know - it's very easy to sing the song through those passages and it doesn't feel out of time in any way. I think Neil Young and Simon and Garfunkel do it quite often. I think there's a spot in the Boxer I kept going off on because of a quick 2/4 in between all the 4/4. In this Neil young song - there's an interlude at 1:45 with alternating - I think 3/4 and 4/4...anyway, it sounds 'off' - my wife hates it, but I like it ha ha: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyxDobxSQeY
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I was also a big Yes fan - their music is very esoteric and obscure - not easy for new listeners. I think it's one of those things you have to acquire a taste for, generally speaking, in your younger years. It must sound bizarre to young kids today. The interesting thing about these quick measures in different times is how natural they feel - unless you're looking for them, you would almost never know - it's very easy to sing the song through those passages and it doesn't feel out of time in any way. I think Neil Young and Simon and Garfunkel do it quite often. I think there's a spot in the Boxer I kept going off on because of a quick 2/4 in between all the 4/4. In this Neil young song - there's an interlude at 1:45 with alternating - I think 3/4 and 4/4...anyway, it sounds 'off' - my wife hates it, but I like it ha ha: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyxDobxSQeY
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I was also a big Yes fan - their music is very esoteric and obscure - not easy for new listeners. I think it's one of those things you have to acquire a taste for, generally speaking, in your younger years. It must sound bizarre to young kids today.
.........
Take a listen of Captain Beefheart's first album if you want esoteric and obscure: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiorncOFpcg
OK, a random thought;
Why does toilet paper need a commercial? Who's not buying it?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Frank Zappa yet!
OK, a random thought;
Why does toilet paper need a commercial? Who's not buying it?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Frank Zappa !!! There are tasteful time changes, and then there are 'show-off' and 'just to be different' changes - that appeal to a narrow range of musicians. With Zappa - you feel like you're tripping and falling while you're still sitting in your chair. Not to mention - his lyrics always annoyed me; I just didn't find that kind of humor funny. But no doubt - he could write and play, especially in wiered time changes.
In fact - on the topic of wierd time in general (I know - I'm deviating from my own post) - I think King Crimson should be near the top also.
And as for pop 'offbeats' that still somehow fit the song - The Police's drummer always impressed.
OK - free for all - let's just change the post to weird and interesting timings : )
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Yeah, Crimson should be up there, along with Bruford (the band), and a few others ..
I was lucky enough to see Crimson in a fairly small venue (maybe 500) in 80 or 81. Three of a perfect pair. Good call.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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"She has her cyclothymic moods". For rharv.
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Rharv wrote:
"If the drummer is playing 5/4 while the rest of the band continues in disciplined 4/4 until it meets up again (basically 20 beats), is it a time change? Sheet music says no, but the feel says Yes."
I wonder if you could do this tastefully with other combinations of time signatrues that will meet at their multiples. Anybody crazy enough to actually try that ? (I'm just barely at the desire to write songs - no where near playing with the time signatures yet : )
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Galveston by Glen Campbell has a couple of 2/4 or 6/4 bars, as does Knock Three Times - I think it was Tony Orlando & Dawn.
Cheers,
Keith
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I wonder if you could do this tastefully with other combinations of time signatrues that will meet at their multiples. Of course. You said you liked King Crimson, apparently you never counted out the songs. Same drummer different band. Bruford and Bozzio did this many times. Wish I'd found this earlier - http://threeofaperfectpair.com/That would have been fun. Not too far from you, Joe. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QilNVTZx5CI
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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