Themes, Paddy from Liverpool mentioned that 8 years ago above.
Originally Posted By: pwhack
an easy way around the gui discussion would be to use "themes" whereby you can pick the one that you like. I know that you can customise the colors in biab, but a few built in themes wouldn't go amiss.
To be honest with you Cerio, it could be a language and cultural difference. There have been times when you've come across as demanding, insulting and sarcastic.
Well, maybe you're right, there is a language and cultural difference. If at some moment I sounded that way, I apologize, it was never my intention to insult anybody.
Same in my experience, good way to keep the 10%, the old users that pg are worried about loosing and loose 90% of potential new customers, brilliant marketing.
Originally Posted By: VideoTrack
I believe that PGM will not lose any old users, just gain more new ones. Win-win all the way.
I remember when Cakewalk changed its GUI when the X series came out. Lots of complaining and moaning about it. But as soon as they learned it they started to praise it. The workflow was much better. Plus those improves have kept coming right up to the latest Sonar series.
IF the GUI in BiaB changes I'm sure some people will start to complain and moan. But like what happened with Cakewalk if the new GUI improves workflow then they will start to praise it. With every change comes a learning curve but changes can mean improvement.
It takes courage for a man to admit his wife was wrong.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
To be honest with you Cerio, it could be a language and cultural difference. There have been times when you've come across as demanding, insulting and sarcastic.
Well, maybe you're right, there is a language and cultural difference. If at some moment I sounded that way, I apologize, it was never my intention to insult anybody.
Well, I am from the USA and I have not interpreted Cerio's comments as "demanding, insulting and sarcastic". Instead, I have seen Cerio's comments as positive and helpful and always pointing out real issues that need addressing. I am sure PG loves their hardcore fans who think they can do no wrong and take real offense when someone dares point out deficiencies. But those fans will not help in moving the product forward and improving it for users old and new!
Nope! A -1 from me. I like the GUI. Just because its old in design or "different" doesn't mean its no good. Its particularly good for those with less than perfect vision. Everything is there - learn to use it. However, Video Tracks "GUI concept" video should be implemented without delay. Ian
Old Guys Rule.The older I get,the better I was! BB2023 ULTRA, 1013, Win 7 and 10
Hello VideoTrack,.... Removing menu options can be a sensitive endeavor. It seems for every customer who dislikes an option, there is another who loves it! Perhaps we can come up with a happy medium, such as a “Simple” and “Advanced” menu structure so you’d see only the most basic options unless you specified otherwise. Definitely something to ponder!
Thanks again,
In another program I use now and then the menus after a while would only show the regularly used items in the menu until you clicked more.. at the bottom.
or maybe you could make the menus like the older option of showing only the icons you need but still showing the available by clicking more.. at the bottom
or have it in a customize menus, But will that be easy or doable in Delphi ?
Keyboard shortcuts.. But I think all these will need to wait for the new 64bit c++ rewrite version, that will happen someday, otherwise it's just pushing things too much, blood out of a stone, too much pressure for you guys.
Maybe this will modernize the old looking apps and get rid of all that old Windows color out of them and the same old menus, forms, dialogs.. http://www.alphaskins.com/index.php
Pipeline, thanks for the suggestions, and especially the details with the graphics.
Regarding the specifics:
- menu customization. We did a re-org of the menus last year, and in general this has been well received. There are less items on it now, and they are better organized. For example, the 'options' menu screenshot from another program you posted near the top of this thread from another program has 28 menu items, which is more than any menu that we have. Do you think people want custom control of every menu item?
- hot key customization. That looks like a good one, and fairly easy to implement. - toolbar customization. This is a high priority and we plan to do it. Most people like the existing toolbar, unless they work at a low resolution where it is too big.
A comment about younger people popping up here and then leaving quickly. There are lots of possible reasons for that, not just the GUI. I think the biggest one is the style of music being discussed and who is on this forum.
This forum is populated by old guys and I'm one of them. Simple as that. Old guys talking about old country music. It used to be jazz but these forums haven't been jazz orientated for years now.
It's country, country and more country. If it's not about the music it's about guitars, how to play guitars etc. And not modern country either. Old country. Of course I'm generalizing and speaking of the majority of musical conversations. There are exceptions of course. If it's not country it's folk or big band Crooner or public domain Christmas songs. All stuff that is 40-60 years old or more.
See a pattern here? It's old and more old.
That's the problem with young people popping in briefly and leaving imho. An old looking GUI being talked about by their parents (or grandparents) and referencing ancient music to do it. What 25 year old cares about that? As far as they're concerned it's an old program for old people.
I've brought this up a few times going back 8 years or so. I don't have the answer either because it's very difficult. Someway, somehow Biab needs to create styles for the current, as in RIGHT NOW, era. But how do you create a style for Uptown Funk? Or Drake? Or Galantis? And does anybody here even have a clue who I'm talking about? Hello...Is this thing on??
Absolutely NOBODY on this forum has heard of any of these. Absolutely NOBODY on this forum cares either. Yeah I know, there might be one or two of you.
Biab needs to shift direction but how? If they did focus on these modern tunes and artists who would they sell it to? Would I care about that? No. Would all the 60+ year old country pickers? Heck no!
To bring this back around to the GUI, most of the old guys here are fine with it because they know it and are familiar with it. And, the number one biggest thing to old people is THEY DON'T LIKE CHANGE.
I'm a long time marketing guy and that's the problem going forward. The current stuff is great now, we all love most of it but give it another 10 years...
"To bring this back around to the GUI, most of the old guys here are fine with it because they know it and are familiar with it. And, the number one biggest thing to old people is THEY DON'T LIKE CHANGE."
As Mario mentioned Cakewalk modernized and they got use to it. There were only a few heart attacks, but they left their bodies, went up into the light, got enlightened, the paramedics arrived in the mean time and resuscitated them, bringing them back a lot wiser, loving, compassionate and understanding.
You can keep making it for Older People but they do eventually die off, Cerio was referring to his students 90% give up learning biab finding it too difficult, That's why THEMES-SKINS was mentioned many times and the REAPER MENU is not about number of items BUT LOOK at the bottom: THEMES !! for young and old alike along with TouchScreen themes for Live use where you don't need all the other stuff just the basics, Big Buttons and Sliders.
I'm trying to make options for young cell phone app/tech savvy AND older users, the 10% and 90% of the population, this way pg will get the lost 90% back and lovin' it.
You know when XP came out how many users switch to the Classic Theme (yes Theme) to make it look and feel like 98/ME ?
CUSTOMIZATION caters for the whole population not just the old customers.
You can't just say: "Nope! A -1 from me. I like the GUI. Just because its old in design or "different" doesn't mean its no good."
You have to have empathy for others and say: "I like the old GUI, would like a skin-theme for it and a modern look skin for my Son, that has good eyes who uses it for Live work on a surface pro touchscreen."
I'm a long time user. I don't particularly care what the GUI looks like as long as BIAB does what I want it to do, provide accompaniment for my solo piano gigs. Just show me where to pick a style, key, tempo and the Play button. Like I said, I don't care what the GUI looks like. I've been using these forums for many years and compared to the number of users here, the number who complain about the GUI are very few. Again I will say that I don't care what the GUI looks like, modern or retro. Ray
Last edited by raymb1; 08/27/1612:43 PM.
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
...the number who complain about the GUI are very few. Again I will say that I don't care what the GUI looks like, modern or retro. Ray
Exactly and right now their initials begin with P, C and J although there have been others over the years.
Another thing to remember is this is only the English forum. What do the Japanese formuites think? How about all the Euro forums? The Spanish forums? The Chinese forums? We have no idea what they might think about all of this.
PGM is a world wide company, it's not just us on this one forum.
A comment about younger people popping up here and then leaving quickly. There are lots of possible reasons for that, not just the GUI. I think the biggest one is the style of music being discussed and who is on this forum.
This forum is populated by old guys and I'm one of them. Simple as that. Old guys talking about old country music. It used to be jazz but these forums haven't been jazz orientated for years now.
It's country, country and more country. If it's not about the music it's about guitars, how to play guitars etc. And not modern country either. Old country. Of course I'm generalizing and speaking of the majority of musical conversations. There are exceptions of course. If it's not country it's folk or big band Crooner or public domain Christmas songs. All stuff that is 40-60 years old or more.
See a pattern here? It's old and more old.
That's the problem with young people popping in briefly and leaving imho. An old looking GUI being talked about by their parents (or grandparents) and referencing ancient music to do it. What 25 year old cares about that? As far as they're concerned it's an old program for old people.
I've brought this up a few times going back 8 years or so. I don't have the answer either because it's very difficult. Someway, somehow Biab needs to create styles for the current, as in RIGHT NOW, era. But how do you create a style for Uptown Funk? Or Drake? Or Galantis? And does anybody here even have a clue who I'm talking about? Hello...Is this thing on??
Absolutely NOBODY on this forum has heard of any of these. Absolutely NOBODY on this forum cares either. Yeah I know, there might be one or two of you.
Biab needs to shift direction but how? If they did focus on these modern tunes and artists who would they sell it to? Would I care about that? No. Would all the 60+ year old country pickers? Heck no!
To bring this back around to the GUI, most of the old guys here are fine with it because they know it and are familiar with it. And, the number one biggest thing to old people is THEY DON'T LIKE CHANGE.
I'm a long time marketing guy and that's the problem going forward. The current stuff is great now, we all love most of it but give it another 10 years...
Maybe this will modernize the old looking apps and get rid of all that old Windows color out of them and the same old menus, forms, dialogs.. http://www.alphaskins.com/index.php
I think this is a bad idea! Just placing a GUI bandaid over the existing GUI does NOT help!
Hello VideoTrack,.... Removing menu options can be a sensitive endeavor. It seems for every customer who dislikes an option, there is another who loves it! Perhaps we can come up with a happy medium, such as a “Simple” and “Advanced” menu structure so you’d see only the most basic options unless you specified otherwise. Definitely something to ponder!
Thanks again,
In another program I use now and then the menus after a while would only show the regularly used items in the menu until you clicked more.. at the bottom.
or maybe you could make the menus like the older option of showing only the icons you need but still showing the available by clicking more.. at the bottom
or have it in a customize menus, But will that be easy or doable in Delphi ?
Don't mean to sound negative but I don't like this idea! Allowing/requiring users to design their own GUI will lead to frustration for both users and PG support staff! Whenever I experience software that does this (and they are not that common these days) I simply turn everything on immediately so I don't have to play hunt-the-wumpus with a menu!
"Allowing/requiring users to design their own GUI" Panic attack, confusion > Options > Skin > Classic. That's why Reaper was invented, more user control, no nanny and father xmas feeding the chickens at the end of the year.
"I think this is a bad idea! Just placing a GUI bandaid over the existing GUI does NOT help!" Leave it the win98 color and get onto every other DAW company that has a better looking color gui and ask them wt# are they doing.
As said before I'll just go to Reaper that gives just about total control to the user over just about everything and spend my time creating a script to import sections of recorded wav files that users upload n share with the chord markers in them with BWF bext chunk and acid info. I think that will be a lot easier and very much appreciated in the Reaper forum.
Hey, I tried, but it's a killer, I can't do it anymore, It's doin' my head in
Sorry it's just way too low, back in a DOS time warp that is perpetuated.
It is where it is because of the very statement below,
Yeah but Reaper started with a fairly modern GUI and then added skins. Great idea...great implementation! But in my opinion BIAB would need an extensive GUI overhaul before skins would make much sense. Where this becomes a problem is when the underlying issues are not addressed but modern colors are simply added like a veneer!
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Allowing/requiring users to design their own GUI will lead to frustration for both users and PG support staff! Whenever I experience software that does this (and they are not that common these days) I simply turn everything on immediately so I don't have to play hunt-the-wumpus with a menu!
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