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Make a New Instrument #364508 09/08/16 10:58 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Mar 2001 Posts: 81 Potomac Falls, VA USA kbour OP Enthusiast
OP kbour Enthusiast Joined: Mar 2001 Posts: 81 Potomac Falls, VA USA	I have been a BIAB customer/user for as long as I can remember... I recently took up tap dancing and am wondering if I can create a new "drum" instrument in BIAB where different tap sounds could be mapped to notes on the treble scale, e.g.: G#: Toe Stand G: Touch F#: Slam F: Step E: Brush D#: Pullback D: Spank C#: Toe Click C: Toe Tip B: Toe A#: Jump A: Hop/Leap G#: Heel Stand G: Dig F#: Heel Click F: Heel E: Heel Touch D#: Chug D: Scuff C#: Clunk (Outside) C: Clunk (Inside) I would record each of these single tap sounds as a WAV file and, when I create melody line, I would like a middle "G" to make the sound corresponding to a "Dig" or the lower "E" to sound as a "Heel." It might even be possible to use simple chords, e.g., a G-G would be a "Stomp" and and F-F could be thought of as a Stamp. In essence, I am asking if BIAB supports creating a new "drum" instrument with its own sound profile. If this idea is possible, I would appreciate some guidance as to how I might proceed. Thanks, Ken

Re: Make a New Instrument kbour #364513 09/08/16 11:11 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,382 K Kent - PG Music PG Music Staff
Kent - PG Music PG Music Staff K Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,382	Hi, There's nothing built-in to Band-in-a-Box that would allow this, but you could load your samples into any VST drum plugin that allows you to load your own samples, and use that VST on a track in Band-in-a-Box. Thanks Kent PG Music

Re: Make a New Instrument kbour #364520 09/08/16 12:43 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 24,888 Hamlin NY MarioD Veteran
MarioD Veteran Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 24,888 Hamlin NY	You can do this in Kontakt and you can probably do this in any sampler. Or record your wavs and in RealBand put them where you want them. Note that I am not a heavy user of RealBand and if this isn't correct then someone please correct me. But I'm pretty sure that it can be done there. I'm sure it can be done in other DAWs also. I know it can be done in Sonar. Life is short so make sure you spend as much time as possible on the Internet arguing with strangers. 64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware

Re: Make a New Instrument kbour #364530 09/08/16 02:21 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Aug 2014 Posts: 8,520 North Carolina David Snyder Veteran
David Snyder Veteran Joined: Aug 2014 Posts: 8,520 North Carolina	There may be an alternate workaround to get what you want--kind of. I did a similar thing for percussion, by recording live percussive instruments into RB at 100 bpm to a drum set. I can then save that at any tempo and create "loops" of a sort by cutting out stuff I don't want, or just silencing them, to create a percussion section of sorts on my own. See screenshot. Last, I pasted a link to the Sonar instructions for making your own samples for Session Drummer. My wife is a programmer. She looked at the instructions and said if I did all the housework for two weeks she would do that. I am going with Plan A. Session Drummer Programming: http://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/using-session-drummer-2-sonar-6 Lazy Method to Avoid Housework: Attached Files (Click to download or enlarge) (Only available when you are logged in) Percussion.png (463.57 KB, 91 downloads) David Snyder Songwriter/Renaissance Man Studio + Fingers https://davidsnydersongs.com/ https://spoti.fi/359Gigs www.davidsnydermusic.com/ www.reverbnation.com/davidpsnyder www.soundcloud.com/david-snyder-gigs4 https://www.songtradr.com/user/profile/david.snyder

Re: Make a New Instrument David Snyder #364535 09/08/16 02:39 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: May 2000 Posts: 22,645 Mi., USA rharv Veteran
rharv Veteran Joined: May 2000 Posts: 22,645 Mi., USA	Ahh, but you are using Realband, not BiaB .. that makes it easier. <grin> I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome Make your sound your own!

Re: Make a New Instrument kbour #364589 09/09/16 02:12 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,962 Middlesex, NC Guitarhacker Veteran
Guitarhacker Veteran Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,962 Middlesex, NC	Originally Posted By: kbour G#: Toe Stand G: Touch F#: Slam F: Step E: Brush D#: Pullback D: Spank C#: Toe Click C: Toe Tip B: Toe A#: Jump A: Hop/Leap G#: Heel Stand G: Dig F#: Heel Click F: Heel E: Heel Touch D#: Chug D: Scuff C#: Clunk (Outside) C: Clunk (Inside) Ken I'm curious as all get out to know what some of those things sound like..... Toe Click.... Heel......Heel touch.....toe stand.... Toe..... But yeah, it's much easier to do with a sampler. Kontakt is one of the better samplers that would do this well. You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.

Re: Make a New Instrument Guitarhacker #364606 09/09/16 03:20 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Mar 2001 Posts: 81 Potomac Falls, VA USA kbour OP Enthusiast
OP kbour Enthusiast Joined: Mar 2001 Posts: 81 Potomac Falls, VA USA	Hi Guitarhacker: To hear many of these sounds, check out this YouTube video of beginning tap instruction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRbsIS1Hmfo

Re: Make a New Instrument Kent - PG Music #364616 09/09/16 05:08 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Mar 2001 Posts: 81 Potomac Falls, VA USA kbour OP Enthusiast
OP kbour Enthusiast Joined: Mar 2001 Posts: 81 Potomac Falls, VA USA	Thanks, Kent. I am not too familiar with VST's although, over the years, I have used BFD3 and Battery3 in stand-alone mode with a midi-controller called a Zendrum. The part that is confusing me is how to map the various recorded sounds to treble clef notes so that different arrangements, melodies, etc., can be played back in BIAB using the tap sound bank. I did some research on the Internet and found this link - Clap Machine VST Plugin - in which the designer recorded hand-clap sounds. I listened to an arrangement a guy made using this plugin and it sounds a lot like what I am trying to achieve (Claptrap-2 Percussionists). If I could make/buy something like that for tap sounds, would it be placed on the Soloist track in BIAB or an instrument? Any chance I could call and talk to you about this project just to get myself properly oriented?

Re: Make a New Instrument kbour #364661 09/09/16 11:00 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,382 K Kent - PG Music PG Music Staff
Kent - PG Music PG Music Staff K Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,382	Hi, Right, you can do this with something like BFD3 or Battery (VST version, rather than stand-alone). You'd load your samples into the plugin to create your own drum kit, then each note on the staff will correspond to a different sound from the kit. You can then assign the VST to either the Melody or Soloist track and enter notes using the Notation Window or Piano Roll. If you'd like to record the part using a MIDI controller (like the Zendrum or a keyboard), then assign the plugin to the Thru track as well, and make sure you're using an ASIO audio driver. You're welcome to call our tech support line, the number is 1-866-983-2474. We're available 10AM-5PM PST, Monday to Friday. Thanks Kent PG Music

Re: Make a New Instrument Kent - PG Music #364672 09/09/16 11:29 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Mar 2001 Posts: 81 Potomac Falls, VA USA kbour OP Enthusiast
OP kbour Enthusiast Joined: Mar 2001 Posts: 81 Potomac Falls, VA USA	Thanks, Kent. That additional explanation is helpful. First, I think I should attempt to load a VST version of BFD3 into BIAB. If I succeed with that step, it may seem clearer how to create a custom drumkit in BFD3 using audio recordings (wav files) of my tap sounds and map them to notes on the treble clef. This kind of project is completely new to me, so I should probably hunker down and see if I can figure it out using the manuals/help tutorials. You've laid out the essential components. If I have additional questions, I'll post them here or give Tech Support a call. Much obliged...

Re: Make a New Instrument kbour #364686 09/09/16 12:15 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,382 K Kent - PG Music PG Music Staff
Kent - PG Music PG Music Staff K Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,382	Sounds good, glad I could help! Thanks Kent

Re: Make a New Instrument kbour #365155 09/12/16 10:04 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Sep 2010 Posts: 8,304 Sacramento, California dcuny Veteran
dcuny Veteran Joined: Sep 2010 Posts: 8,304 Sacramento, California	I'd suggest looking at using the free Aria Player (the same one used by the Garritan Libraries) as the sampler. The Aria Player uses a fairly simple file format called .sfz, which is plain text. That means you'd use a "plain text" editor like Notepad or Notepad++ to create and edit the file. You can build a .sfz file that describes how you want your samples to be mapped, and then load the Aria Player into BiaB, and import your custom .sfz instrument. Google is your friend, but here's a link to an example kit. Here's an explanation of a group from the file: <group> loop_mode=one_shot lokey=41 hikey=41 pitch_keycenter=41 group=1 off_by=1 <region> lovel=000 hivel=030 sample=samples\hihat - closed side - 1.wav <region> lovel=031 hivel=060 sample=samples\hihat - closed side - 2.wav <region> lovel=061 hivel=090 sample=samples\hihat - closed side - 3.wav <region> lovel=091 hivel=110 sample=samples\hihat - closed side - 4.wav <region> lovel=111 hivel=127 sample=samples\hihat - closed side - 5.wav The <group> indicates that all the <region> tags that follow belong to it. A quick explanation of the opcodes associated with the group: loop_mode indicates if the sample should loop or not. one_shot means it triggers once and stops, so there's no looping. lokey indicates the lowest MIDI key that will trigger the group. hikey indicates the highest MIDI key that will trigger the group. pitch_keycenter tells how to transpose the sample. In this case, the trigger MIDI key is the same as the key center, so that sample will not be transposed. group is the group number associated with the samples. off_by indicates that if the indicated group number is triggered, if a sample is currently played, it will be turned off. In short - the samples in the <region> are triggered by MIDI notes from the low note 41 to the high note 41. That means... note 41. Since note 41 is the "note center" of the sample, the sample sample will not be transposed. Re-triggering the group will turn off any sample being played by the group. The opcodes associated with the <region> are: lowvel indicates the lowest MIDI velocity (0..127) that will trigger the sample. hivel indicates the highest MIDI velocity (0..127) that will trigger the sample. sample indicates the path relative to the .sfz file where the sample is. Basically, there are 5 different samples associated with the region, each triggered by a different velocity. The example file I pointed to does some other fancy stuff, such as: <group> loop_mode=one_shot lokey=11 hikey=11 pitch_keycenter=11 <region> lovel=000 hivel=040 seq_position=1 seq_length=2 sample=samples\kick - snares off - 1.wav <region> lovel=000 hivel=040 seq_position=2 seq_length=2 sample=samples\kick - snares off - 2.wav <region> lovel=041 hivel=080 seq_position=1 seq_length=2 sample=samples\kick - snares off - 2.wav <region> lovel=041 hivel=080 seq_position=2 seq_length=2 sample=samples\kick - snares off - 1.wav <region> lovel=081 hivel=100 seq_position=1 seq_length=2 sample=samples\kick - snares off - 3.wav <region> lovel=081 hivel=100 seq_position=2 seq_length=2 sample=samples\kick - snares off - 5.wav <region> lovel=101 hivel=115 seq_position=1 seq_length=2 sample=samples\kick - snares off - 4.wav <region> lovel=101 hivel=115 seq_position=2 seq_length=2 sample=samples\kick - snares off - 3.wav <region> lovel=116 hivel=127 seq_position=1 seq_length=2 sample=samples\kick - snares off - 5.wav <region> lovel=116 hivel=127 seq_position=2 seq_length=2 sample=samples\kick - snares off - 4.wav This is like the prior example, but it introduces the seq_position, which allows triggering samples in a particular order, instead of the same sample again and again. But... that's probably much more than you currently want or need. If you only had a single sample per key, and didn't care about re-triggering, you would only need one <group> per MIDI key, and one <region> per <group>, like so: <group> loop_mode=one_shot lokey=41 hikey=41 pitch_keycenter=41 <region> sample=samples\hihat - closed side - 1.wav I generally place all my files in a folder located in the same directory as the .sfz file, with the same name as the .sfz file, like so: <group> loop_mode=one_shot lokey=41 hikey=41 pitch_keycenter=41 <region> sample=my_cool_instrument\sample_1.wav Just cut and past this portion for each sample (replacing the MIDI note number and sample file name), and you're done. Save the file with each change, and you can test it out on the fly with the Aria Player. The player automatically notices the file has been updated, so you don't have to re-load it as you edit it, just save the file. To use it in BiaB, load the Aria Player in the Realtime VSTI Plugin Settings, and import your .sfz file into the Aria Player. The end file might look something like this (yes, you can use note names instead of MIDI numbers): <group> loop_mode=one_shot lokey=g#4 hikey=g#4 pitch_keycenter=g#4 <region> sample=samples\toe_stand.wav <group> loop_mode=one_shot lokey=g4 hikey=g4 pitch_keycenter=g# <region> sample=samples\touch.wav <group> loop_mode=one_shot lokey=f#4 hikey=f#4 pitch_keycenter=f#4 <region> sample=samples\slam.wav <group> loop_mode=one_shot lokey=f4 hikey=f4 pitch_keycenter=f4 <region> sample=samples\step.wav <group> loop_mode=one_shot lokey=e4 hikey=e4 pitch_keycenter=e4 <region> sample=samples\brush.wav <group> loop_mode=one_shot lokey=d#4 hikey=d#4 pitch_keycenter=d#4 <region> sample=samples\pullback.wav <group> loop_mode=one_shot lokey=d4 hikey=d4 pitch_keycenter=d4 <region> sample=samples\spank.wav <group> loop_mode=one_shot lokey=c#4 hikey=c#4 pitch_keycenter=c#4 <region> sample=samples\toe_click.wav <group> loop_mode=one_shot lokey=c4 hikey=c4 pitch_keycenter=c4 <region> sample=samples\toe_tip.wav <group> loop_mode=one_shot lokey=b3 hikey=b3 pitch_keycenter=b3 <region> sample=samples\toe.wav <group> loop_mode=one_shot lokey=a#3 hikey=a#3 pitch_keycenter=a#3 <region> sample=samples\jump.wav <group> loop_mode=one_shot lokey=a3 hikey=a3 pitch_keycenter=a3 <region> sample=samples\hop_leap.wavv <group> loop_mode=one_shot lokey=g#3 hikey=g#3 pitch_keycenter=g#3 <region> sample=samples\heel_stand.wav <group> loop_mode=one_shot lokey=g3 hikey=g3 pitch_keycenter=g3 <region> sample=samples\dig.wav <group> loop_mode=one_shot lokey=f#3 hikey=f#3 pitch_keycenter=f#3 <region> sample=samples\heel_click.wav <group> loop_mode=one_shot lokey=f3 hikey=f3 pitch_keycenter=f3 <region> sample=samples\heel.wav <group> loop_mode=one_shot lokey=e3 hikey=e3 pitch_keycenter=e3 <region> sample=samples\heel_touch.wav <group> loop_mode=one_shot lokey=d#3 hikey=d#3 pitch_keycenter=d#3 <region> sample=samples\chug.wav <group> loop_mode=one_shot lokey=d3 hikey=d3 pitch_keycenter=d3 <region> sample=samples\scuff.wav <group> loop_mode=one_shot lokey=c#3 hikey=c#3 pitch_keycenter=c#3 <region> sample=samples\clunk_outside.wav <group> loop_mode=one_shot lokey=c3 hikey=c3 pitch_keycenter=c3 <region> sample=samples\clunk_inside.wav Last edited by dcuny; 09/13/16 09:09 AM. Reason: Fixed formatting tags -- David Cuny My virtual singer development blog Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing? BiaB 2025 \| Windows 11 \| Reaper \| Way too many VSTis.

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