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The name is just another asset that can be bought and sold and the owner can do whatever they want with it. It's like the Asian conglomerate that bought the name Bell and Howell and began selling electric razors using tons of infomercials.
If someone buys the BS&T name and forms a band to record Himylayan yak herder chants, they can. You never know, that could be a huge untapped market...
It's only the loyal heirs that have kept something like that from happening already.
A point was raised on another forum concerning tribute bands. The New York Phil is just another tribute band. A Mozart opera, an evening with Tchaikovsky, Queen at the park, party with Journey.
Bob
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I respectfully disagree. The NY Phil isn't a tribute band, but a cover band, covering compositions by 'classical' composers.
Here is how I see the difference.
In an orchestra, you expect the members to change, and in reality, the conductor is the musician playing the orchestra as an ensemble. When the conductor changes, there is a big name change. Following Leonard Bernstein and the NYP was Pierre Boulez and the NYP, Zubin Metha and the NYP, Kurt Masur, Lorin Maazel, and now Alan Gilbert.
The follower of symphonic music knows the conductor, and how he/she interprets the music. Ormandy tended to "compress" the dynamics making him good for Classical era like Mozart but not Romantic music like Tchaikovsky (IMO).
You get to know conductors and how they interpret the music and you listen to them for what you think they excel at. The orchestra members don't matter that much, because they follow the conductor's directions for expression.
So if Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band got a new "conductor" (lead singer) named John Smith and called it John Smith and the E Street Band it would be like Alan Gilbert and the NY Phil.
And yes, the name of a band is an asset. I know first hand that at times the record companies had 4 or 5 groups touring the country with the same name as the group that had the hit recording. Many of the groups had no members of the original recording.
They wouldn't do this with Led Zeppelin or The Beatles because the public knew the personnel by name and face. But for especially vocal groups with a no-name singer in front, the general public doesn't know the difference.
I worked opposite a gentleman who worked in one of the road groups named "The Platters". He was definitely not Tony Williams the original lead singer, and he was also younger than any of the original members. There were four "Platters" groups going around the country at one time. My friend is a great singer and entertainer, was hired to do the job and did it well.
When Jay Traynor left Jay And The Americans he was replaced by David Black (IMHO a better singer). But the group was Jay And The Americans, not Dave And The Americans. So Dave changed is name from Dave Black to Jay Black.
So when Maurice White died, is Earth Wind and Fire still EWF? It's your call.
Insights and incites by Notes
Last edited by Notes Norton; 10/01/16 02:49 AM.
Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
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... So when Maurice White died, is Earth Wind and Fire still EWF? It's your call. ...
That is a reason why Motörhead doesn't play Rock 'n' Roll anymore. After the passing of Lemmy Kilmister the other band members said that without Lemmy they aren't Motörhead.
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eddie1261
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eddie1261
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That is a reason why Motörhead doesn't play Rock 'n' Roll anymore. After the passing of Lemmy Kilmister the other band members said that without Lemmy they aren't Motörhead. And they made that conscious decision to disband. EW&F had no reason to disband. They had been playing with replacement players for quite some time before Maurice died. In my mind, they aren't the SAME EW&F, but they hadn't been for a long time. They play the same EW&F songs though, and that's what I go to see in bands, the songs. As long as the replacement players are good, I am fine with the bands continuing. However, I draw the line when a member was the complete face of a band, like Steve Perry and Journey. I will never go see Journey again, as they are now, IMHO, a tribute band to themselves. And I don't do tribute bands at any level.
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My band, hardly on the level of those already mentioned, is named "Matt Finley & Rio JAZZ". Each half of the name has some recognition. I'm getting close to the point where I'll turn it over, and then it can be "New Person & Rio JAZZ" if they want.
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I think once the influential voice or voices leave the group, they become something else.
The new entity could be something better or worse, depending on each person's opinion.
I guess when the become a tribute band of their former self is going to be different for different people.
Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
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eddie1261
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eddie1261
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I guess when the become a tribute band of their former self is going to be different for different people. That's a very strong observation Notes. For ME, just me, it is when the singer goes, as the singer is usually the face of the band. Like, how many people go to see John Oates in concert vs how many go see Daryl Hall? For side players, I look at it like this. I always liked Neil Schon. Fine, fine guitar player. BUT... those ripping solos he played.... follow my logic here.... if Neil is "great", then doesn't logic say that every guitar player who copies those solos note for note in bands that copy Journey tunes is also great? Granted, Schon played them first, but I know guys here in the Cleveland area who can play that solo in Don't Stop Believin' EXACTLY. Thus, if Schon was great, so is the guy copying him. However, Steve Perry singing it, that is another story. This guy from whatever country he came from and that guy before him that looked just like Steve Perry may sing the same lyrics and melody, but they are not Steve Perry, and given that Steve Perry was the face of Journey, Journey ended when Steve Perry left. The correct thing to do, though marketing would not allow it, would be to bill them as "Neil Schon, Steve Smith, and Ross Valory, former members of Journey, with some guy you never heard of singing". In the case of MANY of the Nostalgia Bands, as the OP stated, almost nobody is left, or the remaining members were footnote players. I mean, unless it's Weather Report, who cares who played bass? I saw Styx and Kansas a few years ago, and they were as close as health allowed to the original lineups. Or course Kerry Livgren can't pay anymore, and I guess Rob Steinhart chose not to tour, but Kansas had the rest of the major players. And Styx had the key 2 guys (Young and Shaw) with Larry Gowan replacing DeYoung, but with John Panozzo passed on and Chuck in ill health, that's as close as they can get. Those 2 bands I will give "use the original name" pass because in both cases they were upgrades. But yeah, Notes, you are right on it. However YOU remember a band will decide when they jumped the shark.
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Yes lead vocalist, or lead instrumental voice.
If Jimmy Page left Zep would they still be Zep?
Not for me.
However the Yardbirds recycled a few great guitarists and I didn't mind.
Jay And The Americans replaced Jay with a guy named Dave who changed his name to Jay and I thought they got even better with Dave/Jay.
So even for me, there is no hard set rule.
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
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In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
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Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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