Originally Posted By: jford
Pipeline, I think the point is that "dry tracks" (Direct Input) was released after a number of RealTracks had already been released. So the checkbox only works for those that have that option, and you need to go look and see in RT Picker whether it does.

So there are those tracks that are just processed, and those that have the option of processed or dry (double the space). This to me sounds like a request that all be "dry".


Hi John ,

Yes my suggestion was for dry tracks for everything .

meaning.., it would be great if PG could go back to their DAW project backups of those original performances that would have no doubt been recorded at a higher bit rate (ie; 44.1kHz or higher x 24bit) ,

and re-bounce / export those original individual tracks out of the DAW


..............., But this time around .............,


- Export them a 24 bit (not 16 bit)

- Make inactive / turn off / disengage all added FX inserts and sends - from those individual tracks before bouncing out those new version 24 bit instrument recording - so that they have ZERO FX at all printed to them (Dry tracks)

.., this includes all instruments .., guitars basses, horn,keys etc ..., the lot.

Note : on occasions a recording engineer 'might include a very slight compression on some instruments like a bass guitar to tame the signal during the recording stage for controlling peaks to the signal meaning - that effect is printed regardless .

.., but anything added after that stage can easily be disengaged from the audio and exported FX free.

Cheers
Dave.

PS: I also think the original printed tracks (but in a 24 bit format and not the current 16 bit format) should be provided also - some guys mentioned that .., My suggestion is give the users the choices .., my point is without the 24 bit tracks and dry tracks , our options limiting to achieve professional sounding individual mixes is too limiting

I also know to suggest the above is lots of work , But to lift the bar and strive for a higher level is always going to mean work .., right

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Drums are a different story (unfortunately) and harder to provide FX free stereo stems

Unless BIAB could provide ALL the separate Drum tracks ..., FX FREE .., including ..,

- All individual drum tracks including,
- Kick (in)
- Kick (out)
- Kick (sub)
- Snare (top)
- Snare (bottom)
- Toms
- Hi Hats
- Overhead Mics,
- and any other Ambient room Mics if present

(all individual dry tracks in 24 bit each of course) ..., Hey theres an idea cool cool cool cool


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anyhow..., there are possible issues with providing FX free real drum tracks (in stereo) .......................................................,


Real drums may be a issue .., as the drums are stereo stem mixes (ie; a sub mix off all the individual drum mics including overheads and distant room ambience mics (if any)

.., usually when making a sub mix like this ...,

Compression, Reverbs, & EQ for each individual drums are treated separately - with all the different FX levels designated for each drum added individually on an 'as needed basis' .., (eg: a snare may have reverb, while the kick wont have any)
- This is to balance / help / and blend these individual drums and cymbals (all with different frequency ranges) to sit nicely in the mix while not overcrowding the other instruments within the mix.

For each Individual Drum /Cymbal / Room Mics .., Pan settings and FX settings , and even volume settings carefully need to be calculated and adjusted during this stage to specifically enhance that actual songs individual characteristics.
These specially prepared individual settings then combine to help that song flow, or perhaps it requires a boost, or maybe a pushing, give it a rushed feel, an in your face feel, or perhaps you want a laid back feel to sit just behind the beat - with the surrounding song they are being individually mixed for.

So thats why those individual drums are mixed in such a way - ie: for their own unique reasons , not a generic one (as we are already all aware of wink )



So .., getting back to that Stereo Drum Stem/Mix ...,


Anyhow .., this final stereo drum stem is likely to remain printed with FX setting that cant be removed (as explained above),

..., and going back to the mix to remove those FX just for the reason of providing a new FX-Less stem would more than likely render that stem lacking it's gel and punch from the drums ..., but there are exceptions ..,

- The only exception this where it would be safe to remove compression, EQ , or reverb from the drums is only if those FX were added to the stereo drum stem AFTER the individual drum mix was created (ie: to glue over the whole kit) ..., then if that was the case we can get rid of those added FX, so that we could at least - have that freedoms to add our own FX for a more suited flavor within our mixes ,
.., It still wont be perfect though, because the underlaying drum elements that have already been printed already mixed may not suit , but it still gives a touch more freedom.




Some may say .., But I like the stereo drums (ie; if they were 24 bit )

Question - now I am ready to go out and start mixing .., right ..., ?



The answer is : Yes and No ,

.., yes if you not fussy and just want a beat to groove to . In your case you are good to go , and 24 bit drums added to your daw will sound much-much better then the current 16 bit versions,

.., and depending on how compressed the current drum stems are , then they should still survive some further compression when a mild compressor is added later in the mastering stage to glue together your final mix.



.., or NO because those drums were 'not' individually mixed in context to whats happening in your mix, they were mixed, EQed, reverbed, and compressed and punch added etc to emphasize whats happening within , and to suit someone else's mix - not yours.

So your only choice here from a mixing perspective, is to begin your mix by using these drums as a starting point ..., and then base the entire feel and dynamics and ambience of the 'rest of your song' ..., based on what those BIAB real-drums are doing (ie; as you start adding & placing the rest of your other instruments into the mix after the drums) ..., meaning those drums are now dictating your mix.

A better alternative method

Luckily BIAB also provides those MIDI files for if the above method does not suit you , and its likely many that fills and hits used in real-tracks wont be spot on anyway .., so a better solution in this case (as Im sure everyone already knows) is to export that midi off to the DAWS MIDI editor for the necessary corrections etc . and then use something like Toontracks Superior Drummer (or similar) to custom taylor something more suitable to suit your desired flavour

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I know there are a lot of you guys out there who already know all this stuff backwards and inside out .

The reason I went into such detail was to give a better understanding for those folks who have either not yet explored their DAWs on a deeper level but might want to at some stage, nor perhaps have never used ta DAW before, and were considering buying one.

.., and for those folks , you shouldn't really say you don't need this functionality , (sure some of you might not want or need it) , but there will be many of you who at a later stage.., may find your self In your DAW as such wanting to make full use of these suggestions put forth .

All the best blush

Last edited by SFG; 10/12/16 05:40 PM.
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