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Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 260
Apprentice
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OP
Apprentice
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 260 |
Hi folks. Thoughts, please.
1st, I am not a techie kinda person, so speak to me as you would a child.
My dog is getting super lonely while I sit in my office/studio at my PC so much of the day/night with work and BIAB. I'm not kidding, he is one sad guy.
I need to get an inexpensive (as possible) PC laptop that would be dedicated to BIAB and a DAW to use in my den. Used is fine. I won't run any unrequired programs on it. No Office Suite (Word), etc.
What do you think would be the minimal parameters it would need? Or, any suggestions for make/models? Cheap. Used. I'll need small-ish monitors there also, so if you have suggestions, I'll take them.
Thanks.
Andy
BIAB 2017 Ultra
Windows 8 and 10
Scarlet 18i8
Reaper and Mixpad
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Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,593
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,593 |
We know that BIAB 2016 requires a PC that scores around 1500 minimum on the single-core Geekbench test (a free utility you can download). You could pretty easily test a candidate laptop.
KRK and M-Audio make pretty good small monitors for the money.
Can't help with the dog.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
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Joined: Aug 2011
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Joined: Aug 2011
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Goodwill stores in my area sell used desk and laptop computers. They refurbish them and update the operating system. Used laptops start at about $100.
Of course bigger is better but truthfully any present day laptop you get should handle Band-in-a-Box. The big difference you will notice is it will take longer for the program to open up because laptop hard drives normally are slower than desktop hard drives (5,400 rpm for most laptop hard drives versus 7,200 or 10,000 rpm for desktop). Once the program loads up it operates from the computer memory.
The laptop I'm using is four years old and works fine.
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Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,633
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My personal suggestion;
Surface Pro
It may not seem worth it at first, but down the road you'll likely appreciate the choice.
Just my opinion.
I've seen these be very reliable workhorses in various situations. Value over time and all that ..
YMMV
Last edited by rharv; 10/25/16 05:07 PM.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 260
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OP
Apprentice
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 260 |
You guys are the best. Thank you.
Andy
BIAB 2017 Ultra
Windows 8 and 10
Scarlet 18i8
Reaper and Mixpad
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Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 260
Apprentice
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OP
Apprentice
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 260 |
HA! He's gonna be so happy.
I have a 10 year old laptop, runs Vista and it will not run BIAB consistently. Freezes or takes 10 mins to load (then freezes). I can't upgrade the operating system. It's fine for surfing, but not much more.
Thanks for your help, Matt!
Andy
BIAB 2017 Ultra
Windows 8 and 10
Scarlet 18i8
Reaper and Mixpad
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Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
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Joined: Dec 2003
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Newegg has a number of refurbished laptops. You may want to take a look. Also regardless of what laptop you purchase be sure to delete all of the bloat ware that comes with them. Also be sure to make a couple of backup discs. Good luck.
Waitress "How did you find your steak sir"?
Me "I just looked next to the potatoes and there it was"!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
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Whenever I re-install from restore discs, or purchase a new computer, I always run PC-Decrapifier to get rid of the bloatware that comes pre-installed.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 12TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 12TB SATA BB2026/UMC204HD&404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Notion/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com (under rehosting/construction)
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Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 260
Apprentice
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 260 |
Thanks for the bloatware tips! And Decrapifier! What a great name.
I buy and lease real estate and I had an old, eccentric codger I dealt with... old wealthy family that owned a lot of real estate and radio stations and shopping centers, etc. His office was in an ancient, 2-pump Texaco gas station, dark and dusty/musty...creepy as hell, filled with filing cabinets and old newspapers.
He had a clause in all his contracts everyone had to include, entitled:
My Anti-Legal-Rip-off Clause.
We was my hero!
Andy
BIAB 2017 Ultra
Windows 8 and 10
Scarlet 18i8
Reaper and Mixpad
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Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
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Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 408
PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 408 |
I buy and lease real estate and I had an old, eccentric codger I dealt with... old wealthy family that owned a lot of real estate and radio stations and shopping centers, etc. His office was in an ancient, 2-pump Texaco gas station, dark and dusty/musty...creepy as hell, filled with filing cabinets and old newspapers.
He had a clause in all his contracts everyone had to include, entitled:
My Anti-Legal-Rip-off Clause.
We was my hero!
What a character  I'd walk around with that contract all day every day, making everybody I talked to sign it... just to be safe!
Will - PG Music
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Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
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Joined: Jun 2005
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Andy, not to be presumptive but it sounds like you could afford something nice.
I would get a newer lappy with at least 8 gigs ram and most importantly a minimum 256 gig SSD running Win 10 and a 1 or 2 TB standard HD for storage. You install the full Biab including all the RT's on the SSD.
Biab or RB opens in like 5 seconds and your songs generate in maybe 4 seconds. This allows you to do all kinds of experimentation to check out different styles or arrangements or adding different RT's without waiting for "eons" for the thing to regenerate each time.
You will be so much happier, trust me on this. Check out my sig I got my new system last July.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
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Yeah, but I'm a frugal guy.  I don't disagree, you are absolutely right about not under-buying. I've certainly done that before. I wish I'd have started out with a higher quality guitar when I was 15 and not have spent years incrementally "buying up." I'm thinking because of the den's layout, I can't have large-ish monitors there and will need to do anything really serious at the PC. Not that I know how to mix regardless of the PC speed/monitors/blind luck, but I can goof around on the LT with instruments and tempo and such. But I'm going to look at everything from all angles, so everyone's input is greatly, greatly appreciated. I definitely don't want to buy anything that I should have known beforehand would not even run BIAB. Thanks guys.
Andy
BIAB 2017 Ultra
Windows 8 and 10
Scarlet 18i8
Reaper and Mixpad
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Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 24,808
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IF you buy used or refurbished and If you plan on getting on the Internet then be sure to look for something that has Windows 10 installed. All other versions of Windows will be unsupported soon. Thus you will have to shell out another $100 USD to buy Windows 10.
Personally I wouldn't buy anything that doesn't have Win 10 installed but YMMV.
PS - If you never get on the Internet with this computer then it probably doesn't matter what OS you use. I say probably because I'm sure there will be or there already is software that require Win 10.
Waitress "How did you find your steak sir"?
Me "I just looked next to the potatoes and there it was"!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,334
Expert
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Expert
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[quote=Andy A - USA]Yeah, but I'm a frugal guy. I don't disagree, you are absolutely right about not under-buying. I've certainly done that before. I wish I'd have started out with a higher quality guitar when I was 15 and not have spent years incrementally "buying up." /quote] I didn't read every response. I would only submit that I tend to think too many 'under-buy'. In this context....being 'frugal' is one thing, being imprudent with a purchase of this nature is another. I would suggest buy something that you will not grow out of in a short amount of time. Happy spending....carry on.
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Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
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BTW, Windows 7 (Service Pack 1) extended support ends on 14 January 2020.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 12TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 12TB SATA BB2026/UMC204HD&404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Notion/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com (under rehosting/construction)
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Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
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Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 408
PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 408 |
[quote=Andy A - USA]Yeah, but I'm a frugal guy. I don't disagree, you are absolutely right about not under-buying. I've certainly done that before. I wish I'd have started out with a higher quality guitar when I was 15 and not have spent years incrementally "buying up." /quote] I didn't read every response. I would only submit that I tend to think too many 'under-buy'. In this context....being 'frugal' is one thing, being imprudent with a purchase of this nature is another. I would suggest buy something that you will not grow out of in a short amount of time. Happy spending....carry on. Exactly, if you buy a pair of boots that lasts for a year for $60 instead of a pair that lasts for 5 years for $200, you lose out in the long run! The buy-it-for-life philosophy
Will - PG Music
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Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
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Everybody's needs are different. Something else to consider is do you have a HD TV in the den? Win 10 has a great feature called wireless display. It's a two piece USB gadget you buy from MS for $50 that lets you use a high def TV as your computer monitor wirelessly. You don't then need a large lappy with a 19" screen. Or, like was suggested earlier, look at a Surface Pro because they all have SSD's. The new 4's are expensive for the i5 256gig models but the Surface Pro 3's sell used for $5-600 on Amazon. There are a ton of vids on YT about using a Surface Pro for music.
For me I already have a set up where I run a 25' HDMI cable from my bedroom, through the wall into the living room to my new 60" 4K TV and I'm telling you running Biab on that big screen is just great. If your den is small you can buy a 32-42" HDTV for a few hundred bucks. Use that wirelessly from a Surface Pro and you have something you can have some fun with.
I know you're talking about your den but what about your living room? If you have a big screen set up there with a nice home theater sound system guess what I would do? Get a Surface Pro and run it wirelessly in there using your sound system with Biab and forget the den.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,334
Expert
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Expert
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Everybody's needs are different. Bob Of course, I certainly agree, generally speaking. But...on this thread topic, us music/recording junkies need to think 3-4 years down the road...minimum. IE: over time, adding more intensive music programs/apps putting more demands on our system with FX/signal processing and a personal evolving that may incorporate recording with others of like mind. I'd always recommend purchasing a system (or any hardware unit) that exceeds the criteria that we might erroneously think we can live with....going minimalist can frequently be a costly, shortsighted decision. Personally....I'd never go refurbished and to my research homework. I'd bite the bullet, put on a credit card if necessary, go new, get the warranty and record on. But, that's just me and I have been wrong in the past. Just things to ponder before pulling the trigger. Not taking issue here...just qualifying my take on it. Back to it....
Last edited by chulaivet1966; 10/27/16 06:37 AM.
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Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
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Well, thanks everyone. Those suggestions gave me the minimums to shoot for and there are a lot of refurbed units out there that meet all of them and they're in the $350 range. Newegg has a bunch. Cha-ching. Throw some little monitors in and I'm good to go.
Frugal and Imprudent. Thrifty, economical, AND prudent, vs. rash, ill-advised and ignorant. Hmmm...
BIAB is important to me, but so are a lot of things. The money tree I ordered never came.
And like a lot of folks here I'm sure (and they could buy me out 10 times with the money they carry in their shoe), I owe no one. Conservative house, car, c-cards, all zeros. And that's a nice feeling.
Last edited by Andy A - USA; 10/27/16 02:06 PM.
Andy
BIAB 2017 Ultra
Windows 8 and 10
Scarlet 18i8
Reaper and Mixpad
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Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 260
Apprentice
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Apprentice
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Posts: 260 |
That's great advice, Bob, and several of those comments came while I was writing mine, so I appreciate the restating, C1966.
I have a great room house (den/living room all one), but it's not huge (the house). I do have HDTV and the wireless application you mentioned is really interesting.
Thanks.
Andy
BIAB 2017 Ultra
Windows 8 and 10
Scarlet 18i8
Reaper and Mixpad
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Band-in-a-Box® 2026 Mac Special Offers Extended Until May 31st!
Good news- we've extended our Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® special offers until May 31, 2026!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 is packed with major new features, enhancements, and an incredible lineup of new content! The program now sports a sleek, modern GUI redesign across the entire interface, including updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, a new dark mode option, and more. The brand-new side toolbar provides quicker access to key windows, while the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, creating a flexible, clutter-free workspace. We have an amazing new “AI-Notes” feature. This transcribes polyphonic audio into MIDI so you can view it in notation or play it back as MIDI. You can transcribe an entire track (all pitched instruments and drums) or focus on individual parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, and much more!
There are over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®.
When you order purchase Band-in-a-Box® 2026 before 11:59 PM PDT on May 31st, you'll also receive a Free Bonus PAK packed with exciting new add-ons.
Check out the Band-in-a-Box® for Mac packages page to find the best package for you.
Holiday Weekend Hours
It's Victoria Day Long Weekend in Canada. Our Customer Service hours are:
Saturday, May 16: Closed
Sunday, May 17: Closed
Monday, May 18: 8:00am - 4:00pm
Regular hours resume Tuesday, May 19th!
Today's the Last Day of the Band-in-a-Box 2026® for Mac Special!
Order before 11:59pm PDT today (May 15, 2026) to save up to 50% off your Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® upgrade and receive a FREE Bonus PAK loaded with great new Add-ons to use with this new version!
Don't wait - order today!
Check out all the new features in the redesigned Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac - Special Offers End at 11:59pm PDT on Friday, May 15th, 2026!
Order before 11:59pm PDT on Friday, May 15th and SAVE up to 50% on most Band-in-a-Box® version 2026 for Mac Upgrade packages... and that's not all! With your version 2026 for Mac purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks... that's 222 NEW RealTracks available with version Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac!
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® today for as little as $49! Check out the Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all available purchase options.
Learn more about the Free Bonus PAK and 49-PAK here.
If you have any questions about which package is the best option for you, just let us know. We're here to help!
202 New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2026!
With Band-in-a-Box® 2026, we've released 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 468-488) in a variety of genres—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Funk & World (Sets 468-475):
Our new jazz, funk & blues RealTracks include a groovin’ collection of RealTracks and RealDrums! These include more requested “soul jazz” RealTracks featuring artists Neil Swainson (bass), Charles Treadway (organ), Brent Mason (guitar), and Wes Little (drums). There are new “smooth jazz” styles (4), which include a RealTracks first: muted trumpet, as well as slick new smooth jazz brushes options for drums. Blues lovers will be thrilled—there are more “classic acoustic blues” styles, including guitar (5), bass (4), and drums (10) with blues master Colin Linden, featuring understated and tasty background acoustic soloing, plus brushes drums and acoustic bass. There are also new electric blues RealTracks, including electric blues with PG favorite Johnny Hiland (3) and soulful electric slide guitar from Colin Linden (4). If you love funk & gospel, there are great new options this year, including gospel organ (3) from Charles Treadway, as well as new funk, tango, and rock ’n’ roll drums (3) and bass (1). And for big, bold arrangements, we have uptempo soul horns (4) featuring a three-part hip horn section with options for a full mix or stems of each individual horn — plus an accompanying rhythm section (4) of drums, bass, guitar, and electric piano!
Rock & Pop (Sets 476–482):
Our new rock & pop RealTracks bring a powerful mix of requested favorites, fresh genres, and modern chart-inspired styles! We have more of our popular “Producer Layered Acoustic Guitars (15)” featuring Band-in-a-Box favorite Brent Mason. We’ve continued our much-requested disco styles (10), and added new Celtic guitar (5) with a more basic, accessible approach than our previous Drop-D or DADGAD offerings. There are also highly requested yacht rock styles (17), inspired by the smooth, polished soft-rock sound of the late ’70s and early ’80s — laid-back grooves, silky electric pianos, warm textures, elegant harmonic movement, and pristine production aesthetics. Fans of heavier styles will love our new glam metal (13), capturing the flashy, high-energy sound of ’80s arena-ready guitar rock. We also have a set of rootsy modern-folk rock (18), with a warm, organic sound combining contemporary folk textures and driving acoustic strumming. And we’ve added lots of new modern pop styles (16) — the kinds of sounds you’re hearing on the radio today, featuring exciting new drums, synths, and cutting-edge RealTracks arrangements.
Country, & Americana (Sets 483–488):
Our new country & Americana RealTracks deliver a rich collection of acoustic, electric, and roots-inspired styles! We have new country pop (9) with legendary guitarist Brent Mason. There is also a potpourri (14) of bouzouki, guitars, banjo, and more, perfect for adding texture and character to contemporary acoustic arrangements. We’ve added funky country guitar (5) with PG favorite Brent Mason, along with classic pedal steel styles (5) featuring steel great Doug Jernigan. There are more country songwriter styles (8) that provide intimate, rootsy foundations for storytelling and modern Americana writing. Finally, we have “background soloing” acoustic guitar (12) with Brent Mason — simpler, but still very tasty acoustic lines designed to sit beautifully behind vocals or act as a subtle standalone solo part.
Check out all the 202 new RealTracks (in sets 468-488)!
And, if you are looking for more, the 2026 49-PAK (for $49) includes an impressive collection of 20 bonus RealTracks, featuring exciting and inspiring additions to add to your RealTracks library. You'll get new country-rhythm guitar styles from PG Music favorites Johnny Hiland and Brent Mason, along with modern-pop grooves that capture today’s radio-ready sound! There are also new indie-folk styles with guitar, bass, 6-string bass used as a high-chording instrument, acoustic guitar, and banjo. Plus, dedicated "cymbal fills" RealDrums provide an added layer that work very well with low-key folky styles with other percussion.
The 2026 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2026 49-PAK!
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
With your version 2026 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
- Playable RealTracks Set 5
- RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
- SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
- iOS Android Band-in-a-Box® App
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
XPro & Xtra Styles PAK Sets On Sale Now - Until May 15, 2026!
All of our XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs are on sale until May 15th, 2026!
It's the perfect time to expand your Band-in-a-Box® style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs. These additional styles for Band-in-a-Box® offer a wide range of genres designed to fit seamlessly into your projects. Each style is professionally arranged and mixed, helping enhance your songs while saving you time.
What are XPro Styles and Xtra Styles PAKs?
XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-10 includes 1,000 styles!
Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). Xtra Styles PAKs 1-21 includes 3,700 styles (and 35 MIDI styles)!
The XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs are not included in any Band-in-a-Box® package.
The XPro Styles PAKs 1-10 are available for only $29 ea (reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Listen to demos and order now! For Mac or for Windows.
The Xtra Styles PAKs 1-21 are available for only $29 ea (reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the Xtra Styles PAK Bundle for only $199 (reg. $349)! Listen to demos and order now! For Mac or for Windows.
Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version as they require the RealTracks included in the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Supercharge your Band-in-a-Box today with XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAK Sets!
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