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Which BB styles sound truest to the original recordings they claim to be "in the style of". #372393 10/30/16 11:52 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,129 NYC J Joe V OP Expert
OP Joe V Expert J Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,129 NYC	So here we go - variation on a them of the previous posts I've done regarding accompaniments for copywritten songs. I've noticed that when I type in the name of a song I like - the recommended BB style and/or sample song sometimes - to my ear - sounds pretty darn close. Other times, not so close. For those of you in tune (pun intended lol) with this sort of thing - what "In the style of" {insert song name} have sounded closest to the backing bands in the original recordings ?

Re: Which BB styles sound truest to the original recordings they claim to be "in the style of". Joe V #372398 10/30/16 12:58 PM Off-Topic
Joined: Apr 2013 Posts: 8,752 South Carolina C Charlie Fogle Veteran
Charlie Fogle Veteran C Joined: Apr 2013 Posts: 8,752 South Carolina	The Norton midi styles usually can be matched reliably to a song performed by the artist the style is named after. For instance, I have a Norton Midi style identified as a Beatles style and you recognized the sgu as "Get Back". So using that style to create a performance of "Get Back" can be spot on with a little work. Any of his styles can sound very professional using any number of methods. Much will depend on the quality of the midi instruments chosen and the quality of the synth creating the instrument sound. In some of his styles, Realtracks can replace certain midi instruments and yield a nice performance. of course, live playing or a pre-recorded audio file will also work on any track to replace a midi track. BIAB/RB has all the necessary tools to create nearly note perfect replications of most songs. Mixing midi, Realtracks, live recording, WAV or MP3/WMA audio files that can be manipulated by cut/paste techniques and chord detection by importing a midi file or an audio file using the Audio Chord Wizard are all invaluable tools. Charlie Last edited by Charlie Fogle; 10/30/16 01:00 PM. BIAB 2025:RB 2025, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.

Re: Which BB styles sound truest to the original recordings they claim to be "in the style of". Joe V #372407 10/30/16 02:27 PM Off-Topic
Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,851 J JohnJohnJohn Veteran
JohnJohnJohn Veteran J Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,851	My experience is like yours Joe...sometimes it does pretty good but often it does not. And I really do not understand why it suggests a huge list whenafter the first one or two the styles are not even remotely close to the request. Somehow they seem to think that search quantity is a substitute for quality!

Re: Which BB styles sound truest to the original recordings they claim to be "in the style of". Joe V #372465 10/31/16 02:18 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,669 Middlesex, NC Guitarhacker Veteran
Guitarhacker Veteran Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,669 Middlesex, NC	Well there's a problem with those tracks and styles that say "in the style of"..... The question here is .... What song of said artist is this particular style "in the style of"? Was it the artist's big smash hit or was it a lesser known hit that sounded nothing like the big hit or was it some other song by said artist that no one knows and sounding completely unlike anything you might have heard from that artist or were they trying to simply capture the overall groove/vibe of that artist, assuming the artist in question has sufficient chart material to have established a unique signature sound? Often, if I'm looking for a style "in the style of".... I will listen to see if I can figure out the song it's supposedly modeled on. Sometimes I can and sometimes not. You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.

Re: Which BB styles sound truest to the original recordings they claim to be "in the style of". Joe V #372478 10/31/16 03:35 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,851 J JohnJohnJohn Veteran
JohnJohnJohn Veteran J Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,851	My comment was based on VERY specific criteria like a specific song by a specific artist. And the search often returns results that don't seem to match the request.

Re: Which BB styles sound truest to the original recordings they claim to be "in the style of". Joe V #372486 10/31/16 04:18 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 7,913 Colorado Springs, CO, USA R rockstar_not Veteran
rockstar_not Veteran R Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 7,913 Colorado Springs, CO, USA	Joe, my suggestion for this training tool request and your interests of 6 months or so ago are to do this analysis yourself. Pick one song you want to teach the kids (or perform) and "reverse arrange" it through critical listening of the song. For most rock and pop tunes this process takes me about an hour. I would be happy to walk you through my process for doing this with songs in a phone call or Skype call. In my opinion, this is a skill that every band member and home recordist needs to learn. Send me a PM if you are interested. My Songs, photos, writing,etc. My Sound Cloud

Re: Which BB styles sound truest to the original recordings they claim to be "in the style of". Joe V #372524 10/31/16 09:15 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 7,697 Redondo Beach, Ca. jazzmammal Veteran
jazzmammal Veteran Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 7,697 Redondo Beach, Ca.	Joe and JJJ, you have to understand this style function of Biab was never designed to give you a style that "matches" any one song. A musical style is just that, a style. James Brown is a funky musical style but is it the same as Average White Band? No, but they're both funk styles. CCR is a rock style but is it the same as Huey Lewis or Deep Purple? No. When you type in the name of a song all that is is another generic filter. Like Rock Ev 8 is a filter. Or Tex-Mex is a filter. That's it, that's as far as it goes. If you typed in Hotel California what happens is you get a list of medium rock styles, none of which will be specific to Hotel California but one of those might have an arpeggiated guitar part that could work for that tune if you put in the correct chords. Biab does not advertise specific songs nor does PG say anywhere that Biab will give you covers of copywritten songs. You get basic style tracks and all the rest of it is up to you. Bob Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

Re: Which BB styles sound truest to the original recordings they claim to be "in the style of". Joe V #372541 10/31/16 10:03 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,382 K Kent - PG Music PG Music Staff
Kent - PG Music PG Music Staff K Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,382	Hi guys, Bob is 100% correct. The song database only contains the tempo, genre, time signature, and feel (Ev8, Sw16, etc) of hit songs from the past several decades, and filters the list so that you only see styles that match those limited parameters (often showing more if "include similar" is checked). The styles that are listed may or may not actually sound remotely like the song you typed in, and will be the same ones that you'd see if you'd chosen the same Genre, Tempo, Time Sig, and Feel filters yourself. Thanks Kent PG Music

Re: Which BB styles sound truest to the original recordings they claim to be "in the style of". Joe V #372543 10/31/16 10:12 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 12,772 Pensacola, Florida jford Veteran
jford Veteran Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 12,772 Pensacola, Florida	If you want the actual song, then just download a quality MIDI file and work from there. BIAB allows you to pick a style that provides something that an artist might do or a groove that a particular song might use, but it will never be that exact song. Otherwise, every style would be song specific, and I suspect get into a lot of copyright issues. You are just not going to be able to select a Rolling Stones Style and get the guitar riff for Satisfaction (whether you typed Satisfaction in the filter field or not). As I read the style descriptions, selecting a song title isn't so that you get a style that mimics a particular song, but more that it gives you a style that "should work" for that song (or maybe not, YMMV, since it's someone else's interpretation). Like Bob said, if you choose a funk artist, then you're not going to get Average White Band, but you're going to get styles that work with a funk groove. As far as I understand it, BIAB has never been designed to provide you with "covers", but merely the ability to select something in line with what a particular artist might generally create. That can then become your version of the song. It's been this way in BIAB as far back as I can remember. That being said, if you use MIDI, you could fairly easily create your own song specific styles by using a MIDI file as the source and then using the style wizard to create parts that mimic the riffs of the song. That would let you reharmonize a song, yet keep the original riffs in place, or make a different song sound like that song. But as far as sharing or selling that, you would be treading into copyright territory. John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 8TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 11TB SATA BB2026/UMC204HD&404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Notion/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com (under rehosting and construction)

Re: Which BB styles sound truest to the original recordings they claim to be "in the style of". jazzmammal #372556 10/31/16 11:34 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,851 J JohnJohnJohn Veteran
JohnJohnJohn Veteran J Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,851	Originally Posted By: jazzmammal Joe and JJJ, you have to understand this style function of Biab was never designed to give you a style that "matches" any one song. A musical style is just that, a style. James Brown is a funky musical style but is it the same as Average White Band? No, but they're both funk styles. CCR is a rock style but is it the same as Huey Lewis or Deep Purple? No. When you type in the name of a song all that is is another generic filter. Like Rock Ev 8 is a filter. Or Tex-Mex is a filter. That's it, that's as far as it goes. If you typed in Hotel California what happens is you get a list of medium rock styles, none of which will be specific to Hotel California but one of those might have an arpeggiated guitar part that could work for that tune if you put in the correct chords. Biab does not advertise specific songs nor does PG say anywhere that Biab will give you covers of copywritten songs. You get basic style tracks and all the rest of it is up to you. Bob Bob, no one is expecting BIAB to provide a style that is a perfect cover! I get what you guys are saying but this makes me realize this "feature" is not nearly as useful as it appears to be at first glance. I bet if you asked 10 musicians what results they would expect from a style search feature that accepted a song name as input most would expect the styles suggested to at least be something close. But when I type Hotel California and get 304 results (3,254 if I check Include Similar) and none, or very few of them sound even remotely like the song I entered I see this "feature" as either 1) poorly documented or 2) not very functional. I mean, why in the world is it bringing back 3,254 results for Hotel California? I guess you explained this but to my way of thinking there should be more to this filter than simply locating every style in the library that has 2 or 3 common elements of the typed song!

Re: Which BB styles sound truest to the original recordings they claim to be "in the style of". Joe V #372570 10/31/16 01:38 PM Off-Topic
Joined: Aug 2014 Posts: 8,441 North Carolina David Snyder Veteran
David Snyder Veteran Joined: Aug 2014 Posts: 8,441 North Carolina	I have said it in other places, but if you want to see, hear, play, study and grab the midi for all of the parts of, say Stairway to Heaven, exactly as they were performed (including the drums), and take it from there, you really only need to know two words. Guitar Pro. Like here: https://tabs.ultimate-guitar.com/l/led_zeppelin/stairway_to_heaven_ver9_guitar_pro.htm About 59 bucks. Who knows how many song files available. Maybe millions. You can import the midi into BIAB. Peace Out. David Snyder Songwriter/Renaissance Man Studio + Fingers https://davidsnydersongs.com/ https://spoti.fi/359Gigs www.davidsnydermusic.com/ www.reverbnation.com/davidpsnyder www.soundcloud.com/davidsnyderchannel https://www.songtradr.com/user/profile/david.snyder

Re: Which BB styles sound truest to the original recordings they claim to be "in the style of". JohnJohnJohn #372573 10/31/16 01:51 PM Off-Topic
Joined: Feb 2015 Posts: 7,954 P Pipeline Veteran
Pipeline Veteran P Joined: Feb 2015 Posts: 7,954	I found "1" result here http://realband.org/usertracks.html "Guitar, Acoustic, Hotel Style Ev 8 130"

Re: Which BB styles sound truest to the original recordings they claim to be "in the style of". Joe V #372574 10/31/16 01:52 PM Off-Topic
Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,129 NYC J Joe V OP Expert
OP Joe V Expert J Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,129 NYC	...gonna check that out David - sounds like a really fun and useful tool.

Re: Which BB styles sound truest to the original recordings they claim to be "in the style of". rockstar_not #372576 10/31/16 01:54 PM Off-Topic
Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,590 Hong Kong L lambada Expert
lambada Expert L Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,590 Hong Kong	Hi Rockstar_Not I think that is a wonderful idea. I would really benefit from a session that ran through things like drum feels and styles etc. I am clueless when it comes to hearing those kind of things. I can usually hear and work out chord changes etc for guitar or base and melodies, but drums, Swing or Even, 8 or 16? I've no accurate idea of what it really means! I'm sure I'm not the only one. I just follow my ears which kind of works. How about a video recording of the steps you go through? Regards Neil Windows 10 Home 20H2 Build 19042.487 BIAB 2021 (Build 818) Intel(R) Core(TM), i3-4160, CPU @3.60 GHz RAM 16 GB, 64 Bit X64-based processor Zoom UAC-2 (USB 3 interface-built in midi) VoiceLive 3 Extreme, Sputnik Valve Condenser Mic

Re: Which BB styles sound truest to the original recordings they claim to be "in the style of". David Snyder #372579 10/31/16 02:00 PM Off-Topic
Joined: Feb 2015 Posts: 7,954 P Pipeline Veteran
Pipeline Veteran P Joined: Feb 2015 Posts: 7,954	Guitar pro is great ! but if you can't afford it the is https://musescore.org/en Guitar Pro (.GTP, .GP3, .GP4, .GP5, *.GPX) and https://sourceforge.net/projects/tuxguitar/ both will export to midi, xml

Re: Which BB styles sound truest to the original recordings they claim to be "in the style of". lambada #372587 10/31/16 03:40 PM Off-Topic
Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 7,913 Colorado Springs, CO, USA R rockstar_not Veteran
rockstar_not Veteran R Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 7,913 Colorado Springs, CO, USA	Originally Posted By: lambada Hi Rockstar_Not I think that is a wonderful idea. I would really benefit from a session that ran through things like drum feels and styles etc. I am clueless when it comes to hearing those kind of things. I can usually hear and work out chord changes etc for guitar or base and melodies, but drums, Swing or Even, 8 or 16? I've no accurate idea of what it really means! I'm sure I'm not the only one. I just follow my ears which kind of works. How about a video recording of the steps you go through? Regards Neil Neil - pick a song on YouTube that you would like this exercise - one with good audio quality. I won't be doing a video, but I can walk you through the steps of what I do. This isn't figuring out chords and lead lines, but more of an orchestration/arrangement/production exercise. Here's an example of where I did this with Beck's excellent song, The Golden Age: Original: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6zAT15vaFk My 2 minute version (for a song contest): http://rockstarnot.rekkerd.org/songs/newer/rockstar_not%20-%20The%20Golden%20Age%202%20minute%20cover.mp3 The process I use is to go through the song MANY times, with a spreadsheet as a note-taking tool, with song sections in the rows, and 'parts' in the columns. I start with the drums, making notes to myself about feel (usually just kick, snare and hats as a start) in each section. Then bass, then all of the guitars, then keyboards, then vocals, sound fx, etc. On this song, I think I had about 10 tracks total. One thing that I could tell is that in the original, I think the acoustic guitars are double-tracked, and that was the primary thing I wanted to try in this recording - to see if I could actually play the acoustic closely enough take to take to get that wider than imaginable sound. I didn't get the rhythm just right. Also to keep this under 2 minutes, I cut out half of the intro. This was also the first time I ever recorded background vocals. The cool thing about the original is that some of the tracks are just dripping with reverb and that helps to cover a multitude of singing errors! But anyways, I think I got the feel and mood of the song nailed pretty well using this technique. I tweaked it quite a bit, going back and forth between the original and my individual tracks. In the cover contest I entered this into (KVRAudio.com) some folks accused me of copying. I didn't, but paid very close attention to each little audio piece of magic that is in the original song. Even though there's lots of reverb on some of the tracks, others are really dry. I wanted to see if I could duplicate the dreamy yet very present nature of this song and it's production. That's really what Joe is asking about in his original question in the thread. If anyone is interested, I'll put up a Google-docs spreadsheet of a song I've recently 'reverse arranged' in order to make notes on our band's cover of the song. For a great on-line cover band where it's clear to me that they have done something like this, check out Lexington Lab Band. Lots of great 70's & 80's rock covers (Boston, Journey) The cool thing about their covers is that they are mixed really well with great separation of the individual tracks for easy note taking. https://vimeo.com/185352494 My Songs, photos, writing,etc. My Sound Cloud

Re: Which BB styles sound truest to the original recordings they claim to be "in the style of". Joe V #372598 10/31/16 04:36 PM Off-Topic
Joined: May 2012 Posts: 2,934 South Africa JoanneCooper Veteran
JoanneCooper Veteran Joined: May 2012 Posts: 2,934 South Africa	J*3 I am one musician that absolutely loves the song style filter and I use it everyday of life. I don't like using midi files and working with them. This is because I am actually trying NOT to sound like the original. What biab gives me in terms of feel, tempo and suggested styles is invaluable. I am busy working on a folk swing version of Greensleeves right now. Then when I am done I can release a my own unique cover version of a song to iTunes rather than just a bad copy which does not sound as good as the original. LyricLab – Where words become music https://www.lyriclab.net/

Re: Which BB styles sound truest to the original recordings they claim to be "in the style of". Joe V #372603 10/31/16 06:19 PM Off-Topic
Joined: May 2000 Posts: 15,944 PeterGannon PG Music Staff
PeterGannon PG Music Staff Joined: May 2000 Posts: 15,944	>> But when I type Hotel California and get 304 results (3,254 if I check Include Similar) and none, or very few of them sound even remotely like the song I entered I see this "feature" as either 1) poorly documented or 2) not very functional. I mean, why in the world is it bringing back 3,254 results for Hotel California? I guess you explained this but to my way of thinking there should be more to this filter than simply locating every style in the library that has 2 or 3 common elements of the typed song! I just tried it on that song, and got great results. Each of the first 10 listed worked great with the chords, and would work well in the song. So to try to reconcile that with your comment that they don't sound "even remotely like the song" .... I think this is likely the explanation. When you see the style list, and double click the style to hear a style demo, you are hearing our pre-prepared style demo, that is a completely different chord progression than the song that you are interested in. So the demo's progression might be \| CMaj7 \| FMaj7 \| . You are hearing that, and concluding that "this doesn't sound like the song" ... but that's because the CHORD PROGRESSION is different. Instead, type the first 8 bars of the chord progression that you want for your song, and don't play the pre-prepared demo, press the PLAY button (after first selecting 4 bar preview. Then you will hear the style that this feature chose, along with the chords that you want. I did that, and they all sound great with your song, and this list was chosen just by typing in the song title. Here were the first 6 styles listed when I typed that song title (these are from the UltraPAK< and some from Bonus PAKS) _PMODGR+ <---- Here's how that one sounds for example. https://www.dropbox.com/s/worj8b03rexf5dz/PopBalladDemo-1.m4a?dl=0 _LITEPOP _SPTRIO3 _SPOPSLW _SPOPFNK _PMODGR1 Try any of those with the correct chords of your song. And listen to the demo above. And tell me what you think.I'd be intersted to know why you think that wouldn't remotely work for you with that song. Incidentally, the + on the name _PMODGR+.sty indicates that this is a mult-style, with 4 substyles instead of 2. The parts are named when you right click on the bar numbers on the chordsheet, and they are substyle a: verse substyle b: chorus aubstyle c: intro substyle d : Interlude So I made up a 32 bar demo, using some similar chord progressions, and 4 eight bar sections (intro, verse, chorus, interlude). And for fun, chose "select realtracks - choose best soloist". And that feature recommended an elec. guitar soloist 1167 for this style, so that is added in this demo too. SO here is that demo: To summarize, I typed in a song title, took BB's top recommendation, and added a soloist that was also BB's top recommendations. And typed in the chords I wanted. It all took about 10 minutes... This is what I got https://www.dropbox.com/s/yttthubdj7lorzi/PopBalladDemo-2.m4a?dl=0 And then pressed the generate song title button, and BiaB gave the song a title called "Unforgiving Love" Have Fun! Peter Gannon PG Music Inc.

Re: Which BB styles sound truest to the original recordings they claim to be "in the style of". JoanneCooper #372607 10/31/16 07:51 PM Off-Topic
Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,851 J JohnJohnJohn Veteran
JohnJohnJohn Veteran J Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,851	Originally Posted By: JoanneCooper J*3 I am one musician that absolutely loves the song style filter and I use it everyday of life. I don't like using midi files and working with them. This is because I am actually trying NOT to sound like the original. What biab gives me in terms of feel, tempo and suggested styles is invaluable. I am busy working on a folk swing version of Greensleeves right now. Then when I am done I can release a my own unique cover version of a song to iTunes rather than just a bad copy which does not sound as good as the original. Thanks Joanne! I can see how this would be quite cool for doing unique covers. I had thought this feature would give me more of a "sounds like" selection as a starting point for my originals.

Re: Which BB styles sound truest to the original recordings they claim to be "in the style of". PeterGannon #372608 10/31/16 08:02 PM Off-Topic
Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,851 J JohnJohnJohn Veteran
JohnJohnJohn Veteran J Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,851	Originally Posted By: PeterGannon >> But when I type Hotel California and get 304 results (3,254 if I check Include Similar) and none, or very few of them sound even remotely like the song I entered I see this "feature" as either 1) poorly documented or 2) not very functional. I mean, why in the world is it bringing back 3,254 results for Hotel California? I guess you explained this but to my way of thinking there should be more to this filter than simply locating every style in the library that has 2 or 3 common elements of the typed song! I just tried it on that song, and got great results. Each of the first 10 listed worked great with the chords, and would work well in the song. So to try to reconcile that with your comment that they don't sound "even remotely like the song" .... I think this is likely the explanation. When you see the style list, and double click the style to hear a style demo, you are hearing our pre-prepared style demo, that is a completely different chord progression than the song that you are interested in. So the demo's progression might be \| CMaj7 \| FMaj7 \| . You are hearing that, and concluding that "this doesn't sound like the song" ... but that's because the CHORD PROGRESSION is different. Instead, type the first 8 bars of the chord progression that you want for your song, and don't play the pre-prepared demo, press the PLAY button (after first selecting 4 bar preview. Then you will hear the style that this feature chose, along with the chords that you want. I did that, and they all sound great with your song, and this list was chosen just by typing in the song title. Here were the first 6 styles listed when I typed that song title (these are from the UltraPAK< and some from Bonus PAKS) _PMODGR+ <---- Here's how that one sounds for example. https://www.dropbox.com/s/worj8b03rexf5dz/PopBalladDemo-1.m4a?dl=0 _LITEPOP _SPTRIO3 _SPOPSLW _SPOPFNK _PMODGR1 Try any of those with the correct chords of your song. And listen to the demo above. And tell me what you think.I'd be intersted to know why you think that wouldn't remotely work for you with that song. Incidentally, the + on the name _PMODGR+.sty indicates that this is a mult-style, with 4 substyles instead of 2. The parts are named when you right click on the bar numbers on the chordsheet, and they are substyle a: verse substyle b: chorus aubstyle c: intro substyle d : Interlude So I made up a 32 bar demo, using some similar chord progressions, and 4 eight bar sections (intro, verse, chorus, interlude). And for fun, chose "select realtracks - choose best soloist". And that feature recommended an elec. guitar soloist 1167 for this style, so that is added in this demo too. SO here is that demo: To summarize, I typed in a song title, took BB's top recommendation, and added a soloist that was also BB's top recommendations. And typed in the chords I wanted. It all took about 10 minutes... This is what I got https://www.dropbox.com/s/yttthubdj7lorzi/PopBalladDemo-2.m4a?dl=0 And then pressed the generate song title button, and BiaB gave the song a title called "Unforgiving Love" Thank you for that detailed response Peter! I entered my chords and you are absolutely right that that makes it sound closer to my desired song. I think in general maybe I have misunderstood this feature. I am not doing covers and had thought this would give me a style very close to the sound of a song I entered. I will spend a little more time with it to see if I can get it to work for my needs. Thanks again!

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