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Re: Is there a proper 6/8 guitar RT anywhere? joden #373215 11/05/16 08:41 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: May 2000 Posts: 15,831 PeterGannon PG Music Staff
PeterGannon PG Music Staff Joined: May 2000 Posts: 15,831	There is a clear distinction between the time sig that music is PLAYED in vs. the time sig that it is NOTATED in. This has been true, literally since the Middle Ages (more on that below). So if a style is played in 12/8, it can either be notated in 4/4 or 12/8, and this is a standard convention, not something that BiaB thought up. For example, traditional jazz music is written in 4/4 but played in 12/8. Such music may be annotated "with a swing" or similar, but the swing also may be assumed. The last sentence in bold is a direct quote from Wikipedia, and illustrates my point. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swing_(jazz_performance_style) Any music that is played in a triplet feel (3 divisions per note), is considered compound time. This is found in all BiaB styles that are jazz swing, shuffle, irish jig, or any style with a triplet (compound, 12/8) feel. There are about 1,300 BiaB styles like this that are played in 12/8, but notated in 4/4. For any triplet feel 4/4 style, the composer can notate it in 12/8 or 4/4 as a personal choice. For example, jazz swing music would be a candidate to be wriitten in 12/8, since it is a compound (triplet) feel style. Instead, the notation gets a marking at the beginning that (8th notes get played as triplets, with the first one twice as LONG and the second one SHORT). Irish jigs have the same feel as jazz swing, but since the melodies have more triplets, (and it is the melody that gets notated), the tradition is that this gets notated in 12/8 for Irish jigs. But this has nothing to do with how they are played. It is more like a decision to use double spacing vs single spacing for a speech you're writing out (it will sound the same when read out loud). The idea of using a 4/4 time signature to display a triplet feel 4/4 style, instead of using 12/8 has been going on since the Middle Ages. This is called "Notes inégales". Most of the time it refers to playing two 8th notes in a triplet feel, with the first one LONG and the second one SHORT. And this convention allows the music to be written in 4/4 instead of 12/8, This started with early noation of Gregorian chants, and then baroque music. and it reappeared as the standard performance practice in the 20th century in jazz. The last sentence in bold is a direct quote from Wikipedia, and you can read about it https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notes_in%C3%A9gales Anyway, the point for BiaB is, there is no requirement to notate triplet feels in 12/8, and considering a Irish Jig to be in 4/4 ((instead of 6/8) is no harder than considering a jazz tune like Alexander's Rag Time Band to be in 4/4 (instead of 12/8). So, in repsonse to the original poster. There are 1,320 styles in Band-in-a-Box that are triplet feel eighth note styles, which make then 12/8 playing styles. And there are 93 styles that have guitar and have also been marked by us as 12/8 (see those below) It really depends how "triplet-y" you want, and if you're looking for some really triplet-y ones, you could use the text filter and type in 12/8 guitar . If you do that, here's a list of 93 of the 1,320 Swing 8ths styles that have been flagged to work well with 12/8 and all have guitar. I've included links to the demos, so you can listen for yourself. 93 12/8 guitar styles , that are found using a text filter of 12/8 guitar in stylepicker for BiaB 2016 Name Long Name Tempo Demo URL RealStyles (all RealInstruments, no MIDI) _128P50S 50's 12/8 Pop 85 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/_128P50S.m4a _SPOP128 12/8 Soul Pop 85 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/_SPOP128.m4a _SPTRIO1 12/8 Soul Pop Trio 85 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/_SPTRIO1.m4a _TBLZBSS Slow 12/8 Bari Sax Solo Blues 60 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/_TBLZBSS.m4a _TBLZSEV Slow 12/8 Blues w/ Vintage Piano 85 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/_TBLZSEV.m4a _BLZ12PA Bluesy Acoustic Piano 12/8 w/ Band 60 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/_BLZ12PA.m4a _MANS128 Mandolin Solo 12/8 Country Swing 65 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/_MANS128.m4a _BMCS128 Country 12/8 Piano w/ Guitar Solo 65 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/_BMCS128.m4a _RESS128 Resonator Solo & Piano 12/8 65 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/_RESS128.m4a _PNOC128 Acoustic Piano 12/8 Country 65 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/_PNOC128.m4a _GUITBLZ Country Blues 65 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/_GUITBLZ.m4a _BLZ_MNH Laid Back Blues 65 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/_BLZ_MNH.m4a _TBLZSLT Texas Blues 12/8 w/ Trading Solos 60 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/_TBLZSLT.m4a _TBLZSLS Texas Blues 12/8 w/ Guitar Solo 60 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/_TBLZSLS.m4a _TBLZSLR Texas Blues 12/8 60 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/_TBLZSLR.m4a _TBLZSLP Texas Blues 12/8 w/ Piano Solo 60 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/_TBLZSLP.m4a _TBLZSLB Texas Blues 12/8 w/ Brent 60 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/_TBLZSLB.m4a _TBLRKSL Blues Rock 12/8 w/ Alto Solo 60 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/_TBLRKSL.m4a _CMPFBHF Campfire, Hank Fingerpicked 65 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/_CMPFBHF.m4a _CMPFBH3 Campfire, Hank w/ Bass 65 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/_CMPFBH3.m4a _CMPFBH2 Campfire, Hank 65 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/_CMPFBH2.m4a _MONDOR Slow Swing Blues w/ Organ 65 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/_MONDOR.m4a _CJIGBZK Celtic Jig w/ Band 110 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/_CJIGBZK.m4a _FPBTACS Acoustic Folk w/ 2 Fingerpicked Guitars 65 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/_FPBTACS.m4a _FPBNTSS Slow Swing Country w/ 2 Fingerpicked Guitars 65 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/_FPBNTSS.m4a _PSSO128 12/8 Country Ballad w/ Pedal Steel Solo 65 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/_PSSO128.m4a _P128PNS Slow Pop 12/8 w/ Piano Solo 65 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/_P128PNS.m4a _C128PNS Slow Country 12/8 w/ Piano Solo 65 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/_C128PNS.m4a _CT128BR Country 12/8 Brent Electric Guitar Solo 65 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/_CT128BR.m4a _POPPNOS Pop Piano 12/8 Ballad 65 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/_POPPNOS.m4a _MONDAY Slow Swing 8ths Blues 65 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/_MONDAY.m4a _CRYSTAL Country 12/8 Ballad w/ Pedal Steel 65 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/_CRYSTAL.m4a _ElBlz1 [RT n/a] Slow Electric Blues 65 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/_ElBlz1.m4a _AcBlz2 [RT n/a] Slow Blues 65 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/_AcBlz2.m4a _AcBlz1 Sparse Blues 65 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/_AcBlz1.m4a _SLOBLZ1 Slow and Gritty Blues 65 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/_SLOBLZ1.m4a Styles with Some MIDI in them M_S128BL Slow 12/8 Blues MIDI Piano 85 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/M_S128BL.m4a M_BLZ128 Slow 12/8 Bluesy Band w/ Piano 60 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/M_BLZ128.m4a M_PNC128 12/8 Country w/ MIDI Piano 65 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/M_PNC128.m4a M_TBLSLP Solo Texas Blues Rock 12/8 MIDI 60 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/M_TBLSLP.m4a M_C128PN Slow Country 12/8 w/ Piano Solo 65 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/M_C128PN.m4a Styles with Some/All MIDI in them =AG_BESS Blues Gospel w/ Organ 62 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/=AG_BESS.m4a =PED128B Slow Country Ballad 65 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/=PED128B.m4a =CR128_B 12/8 Country Ballad 65 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/=CR128_B.m4a =BGPOP_B Country Swing Ballad 85 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/=BGPOP_B.m4a =SWBA_TB Soul Ballad w/ Trombone 85 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/=SWBA_TB.m4a =FLK12_T Blues 12/8 w/ Trumpet 75 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/=FLK12_T.m4a =CAR_BAS Carey 12/8 w/ Alto Sax 70 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/=CAR_BAS.m4a =LA_PB_B LA Pop Ballad w/ Acoustic Bass 90 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/=LA_PB_B.m4a =CNT_OTB Old Country w/ Trombone 130 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/=CNT_OTB.m4a AG_BESS AG_BESS - Bluesy 12/8 Gospel 62 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/AG_BESS.m4a TEXASBL Texas Blues - 12/8 Slow Blues 55 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/TEXASBL.m4a -CS128^4 Country Shuffle 128 62 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/-CS128^4.m4a -CS128^5 Country Shuffle 128 62 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/-CS128^5.m4a -CS128^6 Country Shuffle 128 62 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/-CS128^6.m4a NR_NORJ+ NORJ 12/8 Nashville Rock + 65 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/NR_NORJ+.m4a BuddyG BuddyG - Raucous 12/8 Blues 95 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/BuddyG.m4a -CS128^2 Country Shuffle 128 70 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/-CS128^2.m4a -CS128^1 Country Shuffle 128 70 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/-CS128^1.m4a -CLTJG^2 Celtic Jig 125 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/-CLTJG^2.m4a -CLTJG^1 Celtic Jig 125 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/-CLTJG^1.m4a -CLTJG^4 Celtic Jig 120 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/-CLTJG^4.m4a -PO128^7 Pop128-7-Brushes Style 80 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/-PO128^7.m4a -PO128^6 Pop128-6-SideStick, Snare Style 80 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/-PO128^6.m4a -PO128^5 Pop128-5-Brushes, Snare Style 80 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/-PO128^5.m4a -PO128^4 Pop128-4-Brushes, SideStick Style 80 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/-PO128^4.m4a -PO128^3 Pop128-3-Brushes, Ride Style 80 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/-PO128^3.m4a -PO128^2 Pop128-2-Snare, Ride Style 80 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/-PO128^2.m4a -PO128^1 Pop128-1-SideStick, Ride Style 80 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/-PO128^1.m4a BEEBSLO BeeB Slow - Slow 12/8 Blues 65 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/BEEBSLO.m4a Islands Islands - Slow 12/8 60's Pop 70 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/Islands.m4a Psyk128 Psyk 12/8 - Slow 12/8 Pop/Rock 50 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/Psyk128.m4a -PERCY~ Percy-Slow 12/8 50s Pop 65 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/-PERCY~.m4a -MudySlo Mudy Slow Slow Blues 65 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/-MudySlo.m4a -C_CONWY Conway-Classic 50s 12/8 Country 80 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/-C_CONWY.m4a Oreg1 Oreg 1 - 12/8 Ambient World Beat 105 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/Oreg1.m4a Gloria Gloria - Brit 80s Rock Shuffle 110 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/Gloria.m4a 12_8Surf 12/8 Surf - Slow 12/8 - 60s Pop 70 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/12_8Surf.m4a FOLK12_8 Folk 12/8 - 60s Folk Groups 75 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/FOLK12_8.m4a Tarentla Tarentella - World Styles - Italy 140 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/Tarentla.m4a 128Rok1 12/8 Power Rock Ballad 70 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/128Rok1.m4a 128Rok2 12/8 Loud Rock Feel 65 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/128Rok2.m4a PADDY Paddy - Celtic Jig - World Styles 120 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/PADDY.m4a Celt_JIG Celtic Jig Style - World Styles 120 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/Celt_JIG.m4a C_CONWAY Conway - Classic 50s 12/8 Country 80 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/C_CONWAY.m4a J!SATCH Vintage Jazz - Satch Slow 12/8 Pop 80 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/J!SATCH.m4a PERCY!~ Percy - Slow 12/8 50s Pop 65 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/PERCY!~.m4a CAREY128 Carey 12/8 - Top 40 12/8 70 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/CAREY128.m4a CELTIC2 Celtic 2 - Contemporary Celtic 125 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/CELTIC2.m4a CELTIC1 Celtic 1 - Contemporary Celtic 125 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/CELTIC1.m4a KILARNEY Irish-Shotiche 12/8 Style 110 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/KILARNEY.m4a Z4COUN12 Country 12/8 Feel 120 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/Z4COUN12.m4a REGGAE_2 Reggae 2 165 http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos2/REGGAE_2.m4a Have Fun! Peter Gannon PG Music Inc.

Re: Is there a proper 6/8 guitar RT anywhere? joden #373226 11/05/16 10:37 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 12,681 Pensacola, Florida jford Veteran
jford Veteran Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 12,681 Pensacola, Florida	The real issue, however is that for a 6/8 song, you are limited as to where chords can change. I don't have a problem using a swing style for 6/8, but I can only change chords on beats 1 and 4 (of 6/8). If I use a waltz style, then I can change chords more often, but the arrangement can get too busy. That's the trade off. John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2025/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com

Re: Is there a proper 6/8 guitar RT anywhere? jford #373237 11/05/16 11:43 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 20,475 Melbourne, Australia AudioTrack Veteran
AudioTrack Veteran Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 20,475 Melbourne, Australia	Thanks John, for clarifying. BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

Re: Is there a proper 6/8 guitar RT anywhere? PeterGannon #373242 11/05/16 12:18 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 20,475 Melbourne, Australia AudioTrack Veteran
AudioTrack Veteran Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 20,475 Melbourne, Australia	Originally Posted By: PeterGannon Adding these 6/8 styles isn't some "simulation" as you've called it. It is intentional because this brings these styles into the world of 4/4 where they belong. 6/8 is just a thing for notation, it is not something that people count 1-2-3-4-5-6 as they play. Well, yes, I absolutely agree with this comment if the PG Music product was only used for listening. But PG Music has developed the product to be far more than that, it is both sophisticated and complex and includes notation and graphics that visually represent what the user is both playing and listening to. And if the user hears 1-2-3-4-5-6 like you state, then the user should visually see 1-2-3-4-5-6, or have I missed something here? I apologize in advance if I've misunderstood the connection between listening to 6 eighth-note beats and seeing notation that only adds up to 4 quarter notes. When I work with a live band, I Never count a 6/8 song in as 4/4 time (emphasis supplied). Audible and Visual should co-relate, surely. Others mileage may vary, but unfortunately mine doesn't. I'm not trying to be confrontational, just stating my opinion based on my extensive music theory learnings. The chart should accurately reflect what the users hears as well as what the user reads, otherwise, why has written music ever bothered to have such as thing as 6/8 notation - when it apparently really belongs in a 4/4 world? BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

Re: Is there a proper 6/8 guitar RT anywhere? PeterGannon #373246 11/05/16 01:42 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 794 joden OP Journeyman
OP joden Journeyman Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 794	Originally Posted By: PeterGannon .................. 93 12/8 guitar styles , that are found using a text filter of 12/8 guitar in stylepicker for BiaB 2016............... That's interesting. When I enter 12/8 into the search box I get about three styles. Never did a search actually specifying an instrument. Thanks for the list PG, I'll sort through them and try the same search syntax you used. Although a lot, looking at that list, are 12/8, 6/8 STYLES where the rhythm section for the most part is giving the true feel. The guitars are still essentially 4/4. Now IF I was using full styles...that can be tolerable but I use BIAB to create mostly solo guitar parts (rhythm) which is why I was asking after definitive 6/8 12/8 guitars (preferable acoustic). Still I will try that search and see what's what.

Re: Is there a proper 6/8 guitar RT anywhere? joden #373247 11/05/16 01:58 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: May 2000 Posts: 15,831 PeterGannon PG Music Staff
PeterGannon PG Music Staff Joined: May 2000 Posts: 15,831	))) The chart should accurately reflect what the users hears as well as what the user reads, The thread o/p is about if any good 6/8 guitar styles exist, and I posted 93 with audio links. What the notation shows isn't relevant to whether the styles exist and can be used. Many of our RealTracks show no notation at all, yet they still exist and can be used. None of our drum styles show drum notation, yet they still exist and can be used. My overall opinion is that we have - lots of nice RealTracks 6/8 guitar styles (see 93 posted links above), and - it would be good if we could enter more than one chord per beat so there could be a chord on every triplet. And - Having an option to toggle notation display between 4/4 and 12/8 for any track would be good too ( similar toggle for 3/4 and 9/8) Have Fun! Peter Gannon PG Music Inc.

Re: Is there a proper 6/8 guitar RT anywhere? joden #373248 11/05/16 02:00 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 794 joden OP Journeyman
OP joden Journeyman Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 794	Well now, the very first one I tried, when listening to just the guitar comping (sans efx)...has got some possibility. For the record its was _SPOP128.STY 12/8 Soul Pop and gtr 2583. Even though the name of the RT states swing - it "feels" 6/8. So thanks to PG you have opened my eyes a bit here. Sometimes one needs to go a bit beyond what is presented, and understand not everything is spelled out. Okay now I think I can get somewhere. It is still a cool theoretical discussion though

Re: Is there a proper 6/8 guitar RT anywhere? PeterGannon #373249 11/05/16 02:01 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 794 joden OP Journeyman
OP joden Journeyman Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 794	Originally Posted By: PeterGannon ))) ...........The thread o/p is about if any good 6/8 guitar styles exist, and I posted 93 with audio links. Actually Peter it was 6/8 RT guitars, NOT styles

Re: Is there a proper 6/8 guitar RT anywhere? joden #373250 11/05/16 02:40 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 12,681 Pensacola, Florida jford Veteran
jford Veteran Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 12,681 Pensacola, Florida	Although, I will say one thing. There are 6/8 songs that you do actually count in 6 (not 2 or 4) (a previous comment was made that this was not the case). They are generally slower 6/8 songs, but as a church choir director, we have many of them, and I have to think about "down (1), left (2), left (3), right (4), right (5), up (6)" to keep the choir in time. Faster 6/8 songs do get done in "2", however. You could direct in 6 for the faster songs, but you'd look like a hummingbird flapping it's wings if you tried. John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2025/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com

Re: Is there a proper 6/8 guitar RT anywhere? joden #373253 11/05/16 02:59 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: May 2000 Posts: 15,831 PeterGannon PG Music Staff
PeterGannon PG Music Staff Joined: May 2000 Posts: 15,831	Fwiw, I don't think there's any difference between 6/8 and 12/8 ( i.e. 12/8 is just like 2 bars of 6/8). They both apply to slow and fast tempos, and seem to be used interchangeably. If songs had an odd number of bars in 6/8, then it wouldn't convert to 12/8. The same thing happens in 4/4 through, where there can be a 2/4 bar or a 6/4 bar at places. Have Fun! Peter Gannon PG Music Inc.

Re: Is there a proper 6/8 guitar RT anywhere? PeterGannon #373749 11/09/16 09:51 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Mar 2009 Posts: 123 B bupper Apprentice
bupper Apprentice B Joined: Mar 2009 Posts: 123	The whole problem revolves around notation (as far as biab is concerned). 6/8 being notated as 4/4 is a royal pain in the butt, musicians will always want to be counted in 6/8 for a 6/8 tune or song & NEVER 4/4. As already stated in this thread, it makes working in a daw with rendered audio or midi difficult & as for making sheet music, well, it makes it a long drawn out thing to do. 6/8 is exactly that & trying to make a case for it being ok to use 4/4 for the notation of it is just downright backwards. I concieve that it may be difficult to now rewrite band in a box to cater for things it was never written to do in its infancy BUT it is no longer in infancy & should absolutely be able to do things the correct way without fudging around to try & fit timings where the should not go (6/8 into 4/4 being the prime example)

Re: Is there a proper 6/8 guitar RT anywhere? bupper #373750 11/09/16 10:05 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 20,475 Melbourne, Australia AudioTrack Veteran
AudioTrack Veteran Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 20,475 Melbourne, Australia	Yes, I'm also another user who shares the same concerns as do many others. When I mentioned that concern in this thread, there was a response from PG Music distancing the subject matter from the separate notation issue. It stated: Quote: What the notation shows isn't relevant to whether the styles exist and can be used. Accordingly, I separately referred to another thread that is directly related to this issue. I hope you and others would lend your support there also. If so, eventually this long overdue issue might be fixed. BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

Re: Is there a proper 6/8 guitar RT anywhere? joden #373902 11/11/16 07:17 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Mar 2009 Posts: 123 B bupper Apprentice
bupper Apprentice B Joined: Mar 2009 Posts: 123	& now you see exactly why I stopped posting in the forums....lack of response from devellopers when its something they don't want to deal with or will be too much work. Rewire questions were dealt with in exactly the same way, trying to fudge or just plain ignoring the question. 6/8, 9/8, 12/8, etc....they are ADVERTISED as real tracks in the irish styles BUT are absolutely not worth working on the notation part of that because....these time signatures can be forced into 4/4 if you have a warped sense of time!!!!

Re: Is there a proper 6/8 guitar RT anywhere? joden #373905 11/11/16 08:03 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,200 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY Matt Finley Veteran
Matt Finley Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,200 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY	With respect, you can differ with an opinion, but "the developer" has responded as much or more here than on any other subject, with well-thought reasoning. BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.

Re: Is there a proper 6/8 guitar RT anywhere? joden #373915 11/11/16 09:39 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Mar 2009 Posts: 123 B bupper Apprentice
bupper Apprentice B Joined: Mar 2009 Posts: 123	with respect, explain "well thought". There is none behind the given reasoning whatsoever. 6/8 is 6/8. 12/8 is 12/8...& in no connected to 4/4 in notation sense

Re: Is there a proper 6/8 guitar RT anywhere? joden #373921 11/11/16 11:20 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,200 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY Matt Finley Veteran
Matt Finley Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,200 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY	I agree with you about notation. The developer just said above that it would be nice to be able to toggle between 4/4 and 12/8. There is a relationship that has been explained in this and other threads. I do understand if you don't agree with the approach. BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.

Re: Is there a proper 6/8 guitar RT anywhere? bupper #373922 11/11/16 11:27 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: May 2000 Posts: 15,831 PeterGannon PG Music Staff
PeterGannon PG Music Staff Joined: May 2000 Posts: 15,831	Originally Posted By: bupper & now you see exactly why I stopped posting in the forums....lack of response from devellopers when its something they don't want to deal with or will be too much work. Rewire questions were dealt with in exactly the same way, trying to fudge or just plain ignoring the question. 6/8, 9/8, 12/8, etc....they are ADVERTISED as real tracks in the irish styles BUT are absolutely not worth working on the notation part of that because....these time signatures can be forced into 4/4 if you have a warped sense of time!!!! This thread wasn't about notation. It was about someone looking for strumming guitars with a 6/8 feel to make backing tracks. And I posted 91 links in this thread for Realtracks guitars with w 6/8 or 12/8 feel. Many of which are Celtic 6/8. There is no notation for 6/8 and 12/8. They are notated in 4/4. This doesn't stop you or anyone from making and playing great backing tracks. It does stop you making lead sheets with notation that displays in 6/8 or 12/8. It definitely doesn't stop you dragging audio files your DAW because WAV files don't have a tempo or time signature In them (unless you acidize them) As stated above, we plan on a toggle switch to change notation display from 4/4 to 12/8. This won't change how the music is played, or the tempo. Just change how it is notated and printed. ))) these time signatures can be forced into 4/4 if you have a warped sense of time!!! Well you make call me "warped" for thinking of 12/8 as 4//4 with triplets, but as John Lennon said in Imagine "I'm not the only one". If you want to see and hear an explanation, check this out, https://youtu.be/0JeIiNf6Zb8 Have Fun! Peter Gannon PG Music Inc.

Re: Is there a proper 6/8 guitar RT anywhere? PeterGannon #373929 11/11/16 01:50 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Feb 2015 Posts: 7,954 P Pipeline Veteran
Pipeline Veteran P Joined: Feb 2015 Posts: 7,954	Thanks Peter I watched that, good explanation, not trying to change the subject but because of that I found these 2 great vidz on the side, now I know why Bob Dylan said “Keep a good head and always carry a light bulb.”

Re: Is there a proper 6/8 guitar RT anywhere? joden #373943 11/11/16 08:35 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Mar 2009 Posts: 123 B bupper Apprentice
bupper Apprentice B Joined: Mar 2009 Posts: 123	Thank you for answering Peter, I very much look forward to the toggling

Re: Is there a proper 6/8 guitar RT anywhere? bupper #374021 11/12/16 03:53 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: May 2000 Posts: 15,831 PeterGannon PG Music Staff
PeterGannon PG Music Staff Joined: May 2000 Posts: 15,831	Originally Posted By: bupper Thank you for answering Peter, I very much look forward to the toggling Thanks bupper Have Fun! Peter Gannon PG Music Inc.

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August 22, 2025

XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!

XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!

The XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs special offers are now available until August 31st at 11:59pm PDT!

Ready to take your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 experience to the next level? Now’s the perfect time! Expand your style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs—packed with a wide variety of genres to inspire your next musical creation.

What are XPro Styles and Xtra Styles PAKs?

XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-9 includes 900 styles!

Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). With over 3,500 styles (and 35 MIDI styles) included in Xtra Styles PAKs 1-20, the possibilities are endless!

Get the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.

Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.

Get Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 19 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.

Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.

Don’t miss this chance to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box setup—at a great price!

August 06, 2025

Mac 2025 Special Upgrade Offers Extended Until August 15th!

It's not too late to upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® and save! We've extended our special until August 15, 2025!

We've added many major new features to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, including advanced AI tools like the amazing BB Stem Splitter and AI Lyrics Generator, as well as VST3 plugin support, and Equalize Temp. Plus, there’s a new one-stop MIDI Patches Picker with over 1,100 MIDI patches to choose from, all neatly categorized by GM numbers. The MultiPicker Library is enhanced with tabs for the SongPicker, MIDI Patch Picker, Chord Builder, AI Lyrics Generator, and Song Titles Browser, and the tabs are organized into logical groups. The Audiophile Edition is enhanced with FLAC files , which are 60% smaller than AIFF files while maintaining identical audio quality, and now ships on a fast 1TB SSD, and much more!

Check out all the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® here:

Purchase your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac during our special to save up to 50% off your upgrade purchase and receive a FREE BONUS PAK of amazing new Add-ons. These include the 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK, Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana, Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes, MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano, Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7, Playable RealTracks Set 4, RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark, and more!

Upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and add 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and 20 RealStyles, FLAC Files for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks, Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster, MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster, Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8, and RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe.
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs!

July 27, 2025

New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2025!

We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!

Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!

Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.

Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles

Check out all the 202 New RealTracks (in sets 456-467)

And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.

You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.

Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!

The 2025 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2025 49-PAK!

July 23, 2025

Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac!

With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!

These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!

This Free Bonus PAK includes:

The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK: -For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles. -For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles. -For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
Playable RealTracks Set 4
RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.

Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:

20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe

Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!

July 21, 2025

New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!

Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!

We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!

In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!

All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!

Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.

Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!

Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.

July 21, 2025

New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!

We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!

We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!

If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!

Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!

Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.

Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!

XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.

July 21, 2025

New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!

Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!

All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!

Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.

Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!

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