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If someone want's covers backing tracks just do a YT search using the name of the song followed by backing tracks. There's tons of free ones. These are not midi, they're audio files but some sound really good.
If you want studio produced pro quality then check out all the commercial websites. To me audio tracks are better because it's real players doing the tracks but midi gives you control over the tracks. You have to have a high quality sound source for midi.
Bob
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It's not necessarily covers that causes Joe V to post the original post, but an educational process for students. Ripping off covers isn't really the goal as far as I understand it.
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I don't play with tribute bands and could not give a rip if I do a song exactly like a record or not. There isn't a high enough percent for me to agree enough!! 1000% I don't care in the slightest about sounding like someone else. When you see major acts, you get a CLOSE approximation of the original but it is never exact. I have spoken to people in major acts and they have told me that after a CD comes out they have to go back and learn the solos as the producer pasted them together because that's what the listening public knows. I am actually, while working on writing for CD #2, working on a bunch of cover tunes done in completely different grooves from the originals. Should be a fun thing when it's done.
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Hey - to be clear, I like doing covers because I'm not half the musician I wish I was, and I can rarely play a cover that sounds as good or better to my ear (not even close) to the original. Also - many people like hearing songs they know and love. ANd of course - many students are interested in emulating their favorite artists.
There is no doubt that creating new and appealing music takes far more creativity and musicianship than playing covers. I wish I was more inclined to do that myself. It's just not where my personality and music take me. And thank God, I don't have to depend on music for a living...so I can do just what I enjoy without the stresses that any full-time occupation brings.
Again - really enjoying and learning from all the posts. Thanks.
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In our duo we do a mix of covers and re-interpretations (for lack of a better word).
I'm not opposed to covers, I make my living playing music, they pay me money to do covers so I don't need a 'day job', and the enthusiasm and positive feedback from the audience is rewarding. Besides, when I was in a concert band, we played music by Beethoven, Tchaikovsky, Dvorak and others. Sure they weren't direct covers, as we used band instruments instead of strings, but we tried to recreate the music true to the composer's inspiration.
I don't think there is any shame in doing covers, nor is there any loss of artistic integrity.
But we don't live on covers alone. First of all, even the covers slowly drift away from being covers. Sometimes we'll listen to a recording of a song we've been playing a while and think "Wow! Have we changed that one!"
Others are intentionally done either slightly or radically different from the original (see earlier post for a couple of examples).
Someone mentioned buying cover tracks recorded by musicians instead of MIDI. We have some competitors that do this. They buy Karaoke tracks, and that means someone else playing the solos, no parts left out for themselves, there are 'ghost' background singers, and so on. The audience knows they are Karaoke Jockeys and in the clubs that we play that they also play, we make more money.
Besides, recorded tracks sound like recorded tracks because they are mixed like recorded tracks. If you are playing your music at super high volumes (115dba or higher) it doesn't matter, but at lower volumes, a mix for a recording is all wrong for live. At low to reasonable volume settings you need more snare drum, louder crash cymbals, more kick drum, more bass, and for some parts like horn stabs or "answer parts" of any kind to the lead, they need to be pumped up. The dynamics on a recording are compressed while the dynamics of a live performance need to be exaggerated.
So even if you have an adequate but not great MIDI tone module or synth, you can do better with a MIDI track where you can control the dynamics.
Tone is nice, but it isn't everything. Expression is more important, and the dynamics are one of the most essential parts of expression. If you think tone is more important, how do you explain the popularity of Dr. John, Stevie Nicks, John Lennon, Bob Dylan, and hundreds of other pop stars with bad to mediocre voices? I can, they express themselves well, and the audience relates to expression, not tone.
Tone is important, but always remember, you should be chasing expression first, because without expression, even the best voice in the world will not get you anywhere. That doesn't mean we shouldn't chase tone at all, but if there is a choice to be made between tone and expression, choose expression and IMO it will get you farther.
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This is turning out to be a great learning post - thanks to all for sharing the very valuable links to great song files and resources; quite a few are new to me, and they're all filled with great backing tracks....
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eddie1261
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Notes, those people who buy tracks, at least in my experience, take that path because they are not musicians, just singers. They simply CAN'T make their own tracks. There is a duo in my area that does this. They are both very good singers, but not players at all. Both of these gals know that their voice is their instrument. The problem is that they acquire only free backing tracks, many of which are quite poorly performed, and 2 outstanding female voices sing over very sloppy tracks.
I will always be in the school that if you want horns and backing vocals, hire some of those musicians and singers that are home and would rather be working. In my area though, clubs are so cheap that bands defer to the gods of the dollar sign and cheap out. The majority of bands around here are trios with a front singer, and nobody else can sing. Rarely do you see a keyboard player. Thus we have a LOT of bands that play with sweetening tracks. As soon as I hear vocals or keyboards or horns that are not on stage, I leave.
But that's just me and I am somewhat of an elitist snob when it comes to music.
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In our area, clubs are cheap too. Places that used to have 4 or 5 piece bands 6 nights a week are hiring duos two nights, putting in a karaoke night, an open mic night, and an amateur comedy night. I'd love to play in a full band, and I did that for many years. The duo is a compromise. The other compromise would have been to get a 'day job' aaaaaarrrrrrrgggggghhhhhhhh.  We have a few karaoke jock duos and trios in the area. They undercut live musicians too. Some sing pretty well, but often the tracks aren't in their key, or poorly recorded, and none of them seem to be mixed for live performance. But they get work, so it's obviously a way to make money. There is a KJ trio in the area, the guy can't sing, his wife barely sings, and her sister is OK. But they are entertaining, and they work the crowd, learning everybody's names and personal situations - one schmoozing the tables while two are on stage. They make friends, and that keeps them working. It's survival, and you have to do what you need to do to survive. So to compete with the KJs, we end up having to learn more new songs, many of which are disposable in a month or two (like "All About That Bass" which doesn't work anymore. Since I sequence my own backing tracks, it's a lot more work for me, but I like playing, and don't want to be a KJ for a living. So whatever it takes is what I'll do, and as long as I'm enjoying myself gigging for a living (and I do), I'll keep on doing what it takes. At one time in my life I wanted to play jazz (art music) and quickly found out if you play jazz for a living around here, you need a day job. I tried the 'day job' while gigging with the jazzers, and found out that being 'normal' and having a real job wasn't for me. I'd rather play pop music. But that is just me. I have a friend who still plays 'art music' and is very good at it. He has a day job and it suits him fine. We all gotta do what we gotta do. Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
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& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Notes, your message struck a chord with me. Around here bands are playing for the same amount of money that I did in the early to mid 60's. That is if you can find a gig as KJs and DJs have taken over.
In the late 60's I was in a B3, drum and guitar trio playing jazz. We sounded great but couldn't get many gigs. That's when we went into the wedding band business. DJs took over that business also.
The fitness trainer asked me, "What kind of a squat are you accustomed to doing?" I said, "Diddly."
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Talking about DJ's, Castle has been our favorite TV show for the last few years. One episode Castle and Becket wound up at a high school prom dance and while dancing they were talking about wedding music when the DJ played a Sinatra tune. Castle mentioned hiring a live band and Becket said why does she want to hear someone trying to sound like Sinatra when she can hear the real thing by hiring a good DJ?
This was just a throw away line in a TV show but it caught my attention.
My father was a college radio DJ in the early 40's and knew all the big bands and commented that some of the unknown traveling bands coming through Michigan were better than the big name ones. He was not happy when they started to die out having been replaced by Elvis and the Beatles.
Now we've been replaced. Who knows what live entertainment will look like in another 10 years much less 30.
Bob
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why does she want to hear someone trying to sound like Sinatra when she can hear the real thing by hiring a good DJ
The reverse is also true. I tried out for an R&B band a few years ago and the leader wanted every song to sound exactly like the original. I asked why then would anyone hire us if they could get a DJ and play the record? My bands rarely played exactly like the originals and that did not stop us from getting more gigs than we could book.
The fitness trainer asked me, "What kind of a squat are you accustomed to doing?" I said, "Diddly."
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Attention JoeV, Peter and lambada,
I have my 'reverse arrangement/production deconstruction' complete for Tom Petty's "Free Fallin'". If you are interested (I think you were the only folks from this thread interested), I can share a link to the Google Sheets that I made for it.
Joe, for your students, this might be of particular interest to see how much ISN'T being played.
It might also be of interest to them to see how much the dynamics of this song deal with the drops and the relative level changes of tracks, section to section in the song.
This could be instructive to BIAB users to hear this major hit and how few tracks are actually used to accomplish it.
Hit me up if you want the link.
-Scott
Last edited by rockstar_not; 11/05/16 04:39 PM.
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Hi Scott. I would love to take a look. Thanks for doing this.
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I just loved Bob (Notes)'s description of some contemporary songs as "disposable".
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Back in the 1960s, before loud DJs we tried to sound exactly like the record. It was what cover bands did. Then when DJs started getting a share of the business, we drifted away from that. As mentioned, "who wants to hear the Sinatra tune imitation when you can hear Sinatra?" As a live band however, we had the advantage of being less compressed dynamically than the recording. The crack of the snare drum was much louder with greater attack and diminish qualities (better accent). Other instruments have this quality as well. So unless playing at 110dba or higher where your ears start compressing everything, the band still had an advantage for many people. Then came downsizing  After that it became about trying to add some value to the song that a DJ cannot do. One way was to extend the arrangement. Two and a half minutes might not be long enough. Plus using MIDI files I can still get more dynamic range than a DJ, and since I play for an adult audience with volumes around 85dba to perhaps 100 right in front of the speakers, my MIDI files carry much more energy than the Karaoke files that the KJs purchase. In some songs I've even doubled snare drums and/or mixed a high timbale with the snare to get that crack effect that doesn't come through on recordings. I've doubled horn stabs too, one for tone and another for the attack. There are lots of tricks you can use with MIDI that can make the sound more dynamic than a prerecorded track. We learned a line dance song for a private club we play regularly ("Get Into Reggae Cowboy") and our KJ competition does it as well. The dancers thanked us and told us that we do it even better than the record. It's because I expanded the dynamic range of the song, louder accents on the snare and the syncopated guitar part, another on the bottom for the first beat of the measure, a few more tricks like that, and we also extended it to 4 minutes. The instrument sounds aren't as good, but the song goes over much better because the expression is better. But still, many customers and worse than that, many entertainment purchasers don't know the difference. Fortunately there are enough to keep us working, and enough so that we can still charge a little more than the KJ acts. One club we play often gives us $50 more a night than the KJ trio and there are only two of us. It's not a lot of money, but it is good for our pride. And yes Matt, most songs are and have always been disposable. I would guess fewer than 10% become 'classics' that will be good for a long time. The difference between today and decades ago is that the record companies have been making the life cycle of the disposable song shorter and shorter in an effort to sell more 'records'. If a song stays at number 1 for 8 weeks, the public isn't replacing it fast enough. I was in enough Top40 bands to remember learning a song a week to keep up with current trends. During that time when I spoke to older musicians, they told me that once they moved into the country club / adult market they never wanted to go back to Top40. In the 1990s I moved into that market, and they were correct. And the nice thing about playing that market is that I didn't have to learn the 90% disposable songs, because they were already disposed of. Any song I learned would last for years. Good value for my time. But playing the 'adult' market I find that especially the ladies like a little new music. So we still have to learn some and we try to pick what we think will last. We aren't always right. "Love Shack" lasted a long time around here, it looks like "Uptown Funk" is here for a while, but "All About That Bass" faded in a few months. But still, it's not a song a week like it was in Top40 bands. More like a new song every few months, and the rest of the time I can learn new 'old' songs that have already stood the test of time. I enjoy the adult market. - Most gigs are 3 hours,
- there is no pressure to draw a crowd because they are members or invited to a party,
- instead of a manager not appreciating you on a slow night, there are no slow nights and at the end of it people come up and thank us for giving them a delightful evening
- the pay for one-nighers is better per night
- we get to play a wide variety of music from many different genres, making it musically very interesting
- we are not required to do 'like the record' covers and can reinterpret songs and sometimes have them enjoyed even more
On the con side, we do have to schlepp our gear around a lot. I'll never go back to Top40, and frankly, I'm too old for that now anyway. So the covers I do can be close to the record or radically different. I can do rock, Caribbean, Latin American, country, jazz, disco and plenty of other genres in the same gig. And I like that. Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Yep... the live music scene is depressing. Back in the 70's and 80's is was easy to put a band together, book it properly and make a really nice income that was livable or really added some cash to your pocket.
In the town I was in, there were about a dozen working bands at any given time and someone always trying to put something together. And most importantly, there was work available. Enough clubs of varying levels to keep the beginning bands as well as the established road bands working. And this was the situation in neighboring towns. Every town seemed to have a "big" club that booked the regional acts and the good locals, as well as several other clubs.
As a trio, bass, drums, guitar and two of us sang.... we had no problem pulling in between $600 on the low end to upwards of $1000 for a weekend gig, depending on the club, and often playing Wed & Thur for $250 or more per night. Not bad for 3 guys in the late 70's. And we stayed booked solid and working every weekend and throughout the week.
There was a military base there as well that would book every night of the week but the pay was lower and they paid based on the number of members on stage. Supposedly, we were the highest paid band (per member) in that circuit. We used those gigs as practice to work on new tunes in front of a live audience and our stage act. We never used our lights or large PA. We could set up in 25 minutes and be out in 15.
I no longer hang out with musicians who are still gigging live but I talk with a few buds who are still playing and the situation is dire. Gigs, good paying ones especially are hard to find. And the ones out there in this area are paying the same kind of money or less, than we were making playing 30 years ago.
In that town where there used to be a club with live music on every corner, there are now a handful that use live bands, and the military base has stopped booking bands totally.
From what I understand, most of the gigs that are available are low pay..."for the exposure" kind of things. Don't get me wrong, I played many like that. But you can't make a living doing it and often, you don't even cover gas and expenses for the work and time involved.
The music business has changed. Those who can find niche markets and unique ways to make a buck are the ones who will survive. The internet and digital formats like MP3 have forever altered the way people consume our product. You either find a way to change, adapt, and survive, or you get out of the business... or end up playing free gigs.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 11/06/16 03:42 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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If all are honest, most pop tunes over the decades are disposable. Pick a decade, doesn't matter, lots of same old same old copy of whatever was hot prior month.
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If all are honest, most pop tunes over the decades are disposable. Pick a decade, doesn't matter, lots of same old same old copy of whatever was hot prior month. I agree. However, I don't think pop has a monopoly - it's equally true of all genres.
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The only thing that makes the good stuff sound good - is all the really bad or mediocre stuff it's surrounded by ; )
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These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
Check out all the 202 New RealTracks (in sets 456-467)
And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.
You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
The 2025 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2025 49-PAK!
Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
- Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
- Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
- Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
- Playable RealTracks Set 4
- RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
- SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
- 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
- Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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