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After many years of Reaper I am seeing some cracks in its armor and this may be a good time to look elsewhere.
Since I am on a PC I am considering Cakewalks Sonar Artist.
I need:
1) a "professional" package
2) Solid performance - meaning bug free
3) Must handle midi as well as the best
4) must have a good user forum for help as needed
5) must be compatible with my collection of VSTs
Any thoughts?
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud (Tip: No need to create a SC account to hear music - just hit ESC ).
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I have found Sonar to be very good, have been using it since version 6 (professional version). I may be partial to this DAW, but it gets the job done. I'm sure, there will be plenty of suggestions coming your way. FWIW... 
Cheers, Mike My Music * Asus ROG Strix G15CF 32 GB DDR4 4TB HDD + 1 TB SSD NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 8GB Win 11 AKAI EIE PRO Sound Interface. BIAB/RB 2024 UltraPak Build - Latest
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Dan,
What cracks are you seeing? I'm a huge fan of Reaper and haven't stumbled across anything yet that causes me concern.
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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Howdy.... I've been with Cakewalk since 1994 with almost every version since and on X3 now. I would highly recommend Cakewalk as a consideration. I don't know how it compares to the features you need but here's a start: http://www.cakewalk.com/Products/Music-CreatorFound this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AReOK3d6fLk&list=PLeySI9gLWqewLAdPSeqJOkzdkZVSrzVJlPersonally, I believe all DAW programs have their place. It's a matter of finding one that suits your needs, intuitive according to your sense of work flow and easy on the eyes. Hope that helps....happy spending. Carry on....
Last edited by chulaivet1966; 11/25/16 07:49 AM.
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I use Steinbergs Cubase pro 8.5 and have been using the DAW since Cubase 5. It ticks all the boxes you mentioned.
What I like about Cubase is the workflow, the fact that it is very, very complete and it's easy to assign inputs and outputs.
It handles MIDI very well and has a lot of MIDI functionality. You can, for example, route MIDI tracks to onboard synths (be it native or external softsynths) or you can route them to outboard synths.
It is ideal for recording songs and song ideas. If it's just you singing with a guitar or you record a band on 48 (or more) tracks. Cubase will give you the power of controll.
The mixer view is absolutely brilliant: it feels like using a digital (or analog) mixing desk. So when all is recorded and all the parts are lined up, you can concentrate on making the best mix as if you would do as a FOH tech during a live event.
Steinberg.net hosts a forum where users are pretty active.
Disclaimer: a DAW is a kind of a personal thing. Most DAWs need some getting used to, as they are usually quite large and versatile programs. What works great for one person can be a pain to work with for another. Use YouTube and look foor tutorials on DAWs you consider. That may give you an idea of the workflow and the feel of the program.
Good luck and let us know what you decided on.
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Mostly all daws have a trial.
I downloaded four daws and used them on different projects over the month of the trial.
You can have them installed at the same time, so switching over to one, then to another.
I settled for sonar.
I had sonar artist and sonar professional loaded on pc to try for a month.
Good luck
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I use Steinbergs Cubase pro 8.5 and have been using the DAW since Cubase 5. It ticks all the boxes you mentioned.
What I like about Cubase is the workflow, the fact that it is very, very complete and it's easy to assign inputs and outputs.
It handles MIDI very well and has a lot of MIDI functionality. You can, for example, route MIDI tracks to onboard synths (be it native or external softsynths) or you can route them to outboard synths.
It is ideal for recording songs and song ideas. If it's just you singing with a guitar or you record a band on 48 (or more) tracks. Cubase will give you the power of controll.
The mixer view is absolutely brilliant: it feels like using a digital (or analog) mixing desk. So when all is recorded and all the parts are lined up, you can concentrate on making the best mix as if you would do as a FOH tech during a live event.
Steinberg.net hosts a forum where users are pretty active.
Disclaimer: a DAW is a kind of a personal thing. Most DAWs need some getting used to, as they are usually quite large and versatile programs. What works great for one person can be a pain to work with for another. Use YouTube and look foor tutorials on DAWs you consider. That may give you an idea of the workflow and the feel of the program.
Good luck and let us know what you decided on. Interesting post Mike as I was about to write the same thing about Sonar. It sounds like they are a lot alike. I agree about the DAW being a personal thing and that regardless of which one is chosen there will be a learning curve. My advice is to DL the demos of each DAW and see which one fits your needs. Your workflow may be different than someone else so asking what DAW should I get depends only on your workflow. Thus you have to find a DAW that best fits that criteria. PA - I think most professional DAWs are solid contenders and are relatively crash free. In fact I rarely have crashed Sonar but when it did the crash is always from a plug-in, mostly old 32 bit ones. I delete them if they cause problems. YMMV. {edit} - an after thought. Make sure that you have the computing power to run these DAWs. This usually means having more computer then the minimum requirements.
Last edited by MarioD; 11/25/16 11:15 AM.
I got banned from Weight Watchers for dropping a bag of M&Ms on the floor.
It was the best game of Hungry Hippos I've ever seen!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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I have been with SONAR (or its predecessor) for decades. I have worked in the studio on ProTools and Digital Performer, but I don't want to learn another one now because it's serious work to become skilled at whichever you choose.
One of the relative weaknesses of SONAR is its notation, what they call Staff View. Cubase is reportedly better. If you are not a composer or arranger, editing and writing in music notation, then this difference wouldn't matter. And even SONAR is OK (I have written symphony scores in it). Of course, some DAWs don't have notation at all and handle only audio.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Thanks much guys, really appreciate the words-of-wisdom. I have downloaded Sonar-Artist for a trial. I immediately recognized the challenge ahead of me if I do make the switch. the learning curve may be too much for me. Years of using Reaper have a least allow me to focus on the music when I am recording rather than "how do I do this or that?"
My problem with Reaper became manifest in my recent use of NI Kontakt instruments. Just like when I have used ST3 in the past the hoops you have to jump through to do multi midi channel synths is too much. Too much to remember when you don't do it all the time... I hoped that something else would handle this situation better. But I am afraid the I don't have the time to learn a new DAW.
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud (Tip: No need to create a SC account to hear music - just hit ESC ).
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eddie1261
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Eddie, does that mean you like it boom, or it can self-destruct boom? I've had more experience with the latter.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Ya, I have heard of them.  Actually my first DAW back in the late 90's early 2000's I ran on one of the first MBox'es with PT-Lite. Then I upgraded to Win7 and PT did not!! Left me high and dry with a non functioning MBox and no other compatible non-proprietary interface. I used to say, "PT left me I didn't leave them". That was my angry years. I have since mellowed and forgiven, but I will not return.
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud (Tip: No need to create a SC account to hear music - just hit ESC ).
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The problem with a question like this is time. As in do you have a life outside of DAW's? If you're in the biz and this is all you do, great. BUT, if you are like all of us here, there isn't enough hours in a 30 day trial to get proficient enough with one DAW for a valid comparison let alone several. You really want to devote weeks and weeks to evaluating the demo's of a bunch of DAW's? Seriously?
How long did it take you to get good with Reaper? How long did it take you to get good with Biab?
Stick with what you know.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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I like ++ MultiTrack Studio ++ because it is very stable, up-to-date and includes a nice sounding suite of modeled instrument patches that are almost GM compatible except for the fact no sound effect instrument patches are included.
Jim Fogle - 2025 BiaB (Build 1128) RB (Build 5) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk Sonar - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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Bob
Was that a dig at my post as it seems I am the one who suggested this to try for a month.
Seriously !!!
I work full time ..what I was saying simply was try before you buy,.
I have not been doing this that long on daws etc..!
You really want to devote weeks and weeks to evaluating the demo's of a bunch of DAW's? Seriously?
answer... I can say in my short time that all daws are the same.. only certain actions different places i.e.
How long did it take you to get good with Reaper? How long did it take you to get good with Biab?
answer not that long...thanks.
Stick with what you know.
Answer ..and the wheel would still not be invented..!
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a google\bing regular as well as video search like cubase kontakt multi out where you substitute your daw of interest will be revealing
noe appear to be easy or intuitive from my experience
once you get it working the suggestion is to save the configuration for reuse each time you need it this too is diffferent for each daw
i feel your pain
Last edited by pghboemike; 11/25/16 02:10 PM.
Lenovo YOGA 900 Window s 10 Home 64bit M4 pro Mac mini 1tb HD 24GB mem casio wk7500 presonus audiobox i2 usb interface
casio wk-7500
biab & realband 2025 everything pk both with Current builds
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Bob
Was that a dig at my post as it seems I am the one who suggested this to try for a month.
Seriously !!!
I work full time ..what I was saying simply was try before you buy,.
I have not been doing this that long on daws etc..!
You really want to devote weeks and weeks to evaluating the demo's of a bunch of DAW's? Seriously?
answer... I can say in my short time that all daws are the same.. only certain actions different places i.e.
How long did it take you to get good with Reaper? How long did it take you to get good with Biab?
answer not that long...thanks.
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Stick with what you know.
Answer ..and the wheel would still not be invented..!
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One way to narrow down the choices is with a comparison chart. I found ++ THIS COMPARISON CHART ++ on Wikipedia. Another interesting comparison (that has absolutely nothing to do with answering your question) is this ++ COMPARISON OF FREE SOFTWARE FOR AUDIO ++. There is some very specialized audio software floating around on the internet that is free!
Jim Fogle - 2025 BiaB (Build 1128) RB (Build 5) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk Sonar - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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I was just saying jim
they are all pretty much the same.
no offence intended.
You only need to look at my posts.
I am not about because of work commitments I am always away from home.
But I always nip in to the biab forum to see the posts.
But still I had a wee hour or so a week to try the daws I had on trail
Take care
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2025!
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XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins
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