Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread
Print Thread
Go To
#378670 11/30/16 08:45 PM
Beginners Forum
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 266
Apprentice
OP Offline
Apprentice
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 266
I don't understand the difference or I think I have an understanding of mixing, which I think of as different tracks.

Beginners Forum
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,933
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,933
Here's a video from Graham (TheRecordingRevolution.com) about it. I've listened to a few of his videos and I've found that he explains things pretty well. (I haven't yet heard this one.)



Regards,
Noel





MY SONGS...
Audiophile BIAB 2025
Beginners Forum
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 8,354
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 8,354
MASTERING VS. MIXING

You will find about 10,000 posts and you tubes on this with as many definitions.

Mixing and mastering are two completely different professional fields, and when people are making records for labels, they use separate "mixers" and "masterers." They are specialty fields in the pro world. Home recorders have to be both.

A mix basically refers to how the levels of the instrument are set on the board (in a DAW on a real board) and when and how those levels come up and down with faders, and how they are panned. Mixing also involves some basic application of effects such as eq and reverb.

A "Master" focuses on the exact sound of the final production and gets into areas like "spectrum analysis" and "dynamic range" and volume, and many, many subtle tweaks designed to make the mix thump or sparkle.

There are many, many ways to attack this--and it gets confusing.

Some people enter the mastering phase before the bed and vocals or instrument sections bed are rendered, just after levels and fading cues have been set (the mix.) *

* There is a lot of semantic cross-talk on this in the field. In the video by Graham posted above (a great video) by the way, he talks about the importance of getting each track to sound great before you move on to the master, and he describes that as part of the mixing process. Whereas, in his description, the master is more of a process of making sure tonal color and volume are the same on all finished musical tracks (i.e., songs) on a CD or collection. However, other people describe "mixing" as setting levels on faders, panning and basic eq. The level of detail Graham is describing as "mixing" is sometimes done by people who would say they are mastering. This is what makes it confusing.

At any rate, the point is this: if you want to add more mid-range or warmth to JUST the acoustic guitar, and it is already in the mix you hand to a mastering engineer, there is nothing you can do. The cream is already in the sauce so to speak. Anything you do will affect the entire bed.

So some people like to have their hand in mastering each track, and also mastering the final. But "mastering" involves the precise SOUND whereas mixing involves the LEVELS--short version of it all.

I love Ozone 5 as a mastering tool (one of many) but I am growing somewhat disenchanted with using tools like Ozone 6 as a one stop shop for final masters. They just seem to make things too watery and brittle for my ears.

Dynamic range is the key to great music, and you can't beat the old TT DR meter for keeping you honest on that.

You want the acoustic to sound like an acoustic, and the bass to sound like a bass, and you want to make sure things are panned, but not panned too much. If you get a great EQ on individual tracks, the mix will sound warm and you will need very little mastering effects after the fact though you may choose to use some to add some extra sparkle or kick or "ooomppfff."

But, if you you don't get a great EQ and sound and mix on individual tracks before you start to use mastering software, no setting in the world will be able to help you. Hope that makes sense.

Just get a good dynamic range meter and make sure you are in the 9-12 range (or higher for classical) and you'll be good.

Also leave some headroom, about 1 db. Don't max it out.

smile

Here is a picture of my famous buddy Yoram Vazan (friend to countless hip hop pioneers) at his board. He is known as one of the best "masterers" in the world now. He helped me with some of my early stuff at the now legendary Firehouse Studios in Brooklyn.


Attached Files (Click to download or enlarge) (Only available when you are logged in)
Yoram Vazan.jpg (129.25 KB, 85 downloads)
Beginners Forum
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,550
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,550
Marty...

The term "mastering" has gotten abused severely in the past 20 years (with the advent of home recording). The video that Noel posted (by Graham) explains it perfectly. Mastering is a term that should apply to a collection of songs - like for a CD release. It is the Mastering engineer's job to make them sound like a cohesive unit. The only reason to apply the term "mastering" to a single song is to make it "fit" into whatever sonic field it might play in - as he states - get it to the level of the CDs or radio songs it will compete against...so it doesn't stand out as "out of place" when listened to in context.

Everything else is mixing.

Beginners Forum
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 728
Journeyman
Offline
Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 728
Mastering is the final trip for most singles and albums before heading to the duplicator. But like choosing a producer, or a musician, or a studio, one should listen to previous work by a mastering company before turning over your work. I have paid a lot for mastering services and been very dissatisfied with the result, because the service seemed to have no "feel" for the genre of music they'd been given. I don't think everyone offering mastering services is suitable for every genre of music. For this reason we've started doing our own mastering and have been happy with the results. There are books available on the process and you don't need tons of equipment to get the job done. I know engineers who master album projects in Sonar Producer, for example, by importing all the tracks onto one stereo track in a new project and then apply mastering tweaks with the software and plugins included with the DAW. And what I've heard was impressive.

Like everything else with music production, get educated about the process and LISTEN to the final product compared to other work in the genre. Have your friends listen, your enemies, your ex, and your dog. It is an extremely subjective art in the end. My experience in doing our own mastering is that less is definitely more. Fiddling with the final product too much is the kiss of death. My favorite program for mastering these days has been around a while - CD Architect from Sony.

Just sayin' grin
Bob

Last edited by Bob Buford; 12/01/16 05:53 AM.
Beginners Forum
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 8,354
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 8,354
Originally Posted By: Bob Buford
Mastering is the final trip for most singles and albums before heading to the duplicator. My experience in doing our own mastering is that less is definitely more. Fiddling with the final product too much is the kiss of death.
Bob


Amen.

That is what I was trying to say Bob. You just said it in less words.

smile

Beginners Forum
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,481
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,481
Everyone has commented and spot on. So I will simply say ditto.

Well, almost....


I combine the 2 into one. Yes, mastering is something that is applied to a group of songs and not so much one song alone, so I often refer to the process as "polishing the song" rather than erroneously calling it mastering.

I start my recording process with the end in mind. I have a good idea what I want the song to sound like and work from the very beginning to get there. So essentially, when I have finished my "mixing" stage, I've also mostly completed the "polishing" stage as well. It might need a few tweeks but often, it's done to my satisfaction.


You can find my music at:
www.herbhartley.com
Add nothing that adds nothing to the music.
You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.

The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
Beginners Forum
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 8,354
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 8,354
Another good "short but sweet" answer Floyd!!

smile

Beginners Forum
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 8,354
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 8,354

This is the part where most people mess up and another great short, and to the point explanation, Herb! smile Well put, sir.

The mastering really starts when you turn on your amp, decide how you want to mic it, and what guitar you pick, as one example. Graham backs this up.

THEN, as Herb said, you do your level best to record your very best take and signal with the sound being as good as it can get before it even hits the board.

THEN, you use whatever effects you have WITH CAUTION to make each track sound as perfect as you can, and as lifelike. Remember, professional producer Bob said less is more--just because you went crazy on Black Friday and bought 100 VSTs doesn't mean you are supposed to use them all.

If you follow the instructions given on this thread by all posters, very little "mastering" will need to be done in the end as Herb said.

As an FYI, some of the very best mixes I have heard have been done by people on this forum in Real Band using very minimal effects.

That is because they let the music speak for itself, and they didn't throw in a bunch of effects that turn the music into soup.

Less is more, less is more, less is more.

smile

Beginners Forum
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,085
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,085
Also technically - nothing to do with the sound - part of the mastering process also includes adding the meta data for the track list and ISRC codes (unique identifiers for each recorded song) which Soundscan uses for sales tracking and SoundExchange uses for streaming royality payments.

Beginners Forum
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,588
L
Expert
Offline
Expert
L
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,588
This might help:

It's also a general guide on Mastering.

https://www.izotope.com/en/support/support-resources/guides.html


Windows 10 Home 20H2 Build 19042.487
BIAB 2021 (Build 818)
Intel(R) Core(TM), i3-4160, CPU @3.60 GHz RAM 16 GB, 64 Bit X64-based processor
Zoom UAC-2 (USB 3 interface-built in midi)
VoiceLive 3 Extreme, Sputnik Valve Condenser Mic
Beginners Forum
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 266
Apprentice
OP Offline
Apprentice
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 266
thank you all very much.

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Go To

Moderated by  Andrew - PG Music, PeterGannon 

Link Copied to Clipboard
ChatPG

Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.

ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.

PG Music News
XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!

XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!

The XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs special offers are now available until August 31st at 11:59pm PDT!

Ready to take your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 experience to the next level? Now’s the perfect time! Expand your style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs—packed with a wide variety of genres to inspire your next musical creation.

What are XPro Styles and Xtra Styles PAKs?

XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-9 includes 900 styles!

Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). With over 3,500 styles (and 35 MIDI styles) included in Xtra Styles PAKs 1-20, the possibilities are endless!

Get the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.

Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.

Get Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 19 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.

Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.

Don’t miss this chance to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box setup—at a great price!

Mac 2025 Special Upgrade Offers Extended Until August 15th!

It's not too late to upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® and save! We've extended our special until August 15, 2025!

We've added many major new features to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, including advanced AI tools like the amazing BB Stem Splitter and AI Lyrics Generator, as well as VST3 plugin support, and Equalize Temp. Plus, there’s a new one-stop MIDI Patches Picker with over 1,100 MIDI patches to choose from, all neatly categorized by GM numbers. The MultiPicker Library is enhanced with tabs for the SongPicker, MIDI Patch Picker, Chord Builder, AI Lyrics Generator, and Song Titles Browser, and the tabs are organized into logical groups. The Audiophile Edition is enhanced with FLAC files , which are 60% smaller than AIFF files while maintaining identical audio quality, and now ships on a fast 1TB SSD, and much more!

Check out all the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® here:

Purchase your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac during our special to save up to 50% off your upgrade purchase and receive a FREE BONUS PAK of amazing new Add-ons. These include the 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK, Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana, Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes, MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano, Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7, Playable RealTracks Set 4, RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark, and more!

Upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and add 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and 20 RealStyles, FLAC Files for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks, Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster, MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster, Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8, and RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe.
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs!

New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2025!

We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!

Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!

Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.

Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles

Check out all the 202 New RealTracks (in sets 456-467)

And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.

You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.

Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!

The 2025 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2025 49-PAK!

Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac!

With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!

These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!

This Free Bonus PAK includes:

  • The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK: -For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles. -For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles. -For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
  • Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
  • Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
  • MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
  • Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
  • Playable RealTracks Set 4
  • RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
  • SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
  • 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.

Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:

  • 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
  • FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
  • Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
  • Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
  • MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
  • Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
  • RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe

Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!

New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!

Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!

We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!

In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!

All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!

Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.

Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!

Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.

New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!

We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!

We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!

If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!

Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!

Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.

Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!

XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.

New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!

Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!

We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!

In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!

All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!

Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.

Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!

Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.

Forum Statistics
Forums58
Topics84,645
Posts782,256
Members39,713
Most Online25,754
Jan 24th, 2025
Newest Members
nah, Silver180, GamophVex, Larry Mac, Marco P
39,712 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
MarioD 174
rsdean 115
WaoBand 113
Al-David 111
DC Ron 105
dcuny 89
Today's Birthdays
GAZollo, jazzman174, jypi
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5