It’s been four years since I wrote the first post in this thread. The basic info about file types still applies to BIAB 2021.
The reason for this thread is that each year at this time, when the new version is released, people may be considering purchasing or upgrading to the audiophile version. If so, I encourage you to go to the first post in the thread, page one, and read the first dozen or so posts.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
This is great info. I started with 2021 Pro on Jan. 3rd, upgraded to Ultra a few days later and I just ordered AE. I'm a saxophonist and I'm working on a Christmas album for a release later this year and it looks like I'm going to use 100% BIAB for my tracks.
I play alto on occasion but I play mostly tenor and soprano. I thought about doing one alto track for the project but I've decided against it this time. My moniker is a nickname from my college bandmates WAY back in the day.
Thanks for your support. I have always been an audiophile and still have most of my hearing that it makes a difference. This despite a lifetime of playing in bands that should have finished me as having good ears.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
I'm installing the 2022 audiofile version today and just read through this thread - it's been a while.
I was trying to use the Installer's third Option to install everything on my pc hard drive, and then specify the external drive where the RealTracks and RealDrums files now reside on my system, but the Installer warned that for the audiofile version I need to select a different option and then 'Copy' the RT and RD files separately.
(If the PG Staff is monitoring, it might be a good idea to note that in the instructions. I didn't see it anywhere. It's only when the Installer is about to execute that the message appears and you can't go back. You have to cancel the installation after it starts. Also, I think the message says to select the first Option which is to Run BiaB directly from the USB drive. The second Option to install BiaB but leave the RT's and RD's on the USB seems more logical since you're already trying to install everything on your computer's hard drives.)
So in Windows I guess I'll do that and skip replacing any files already on my external USB. BiaB 2021 is up to date, so any of the RT and RD files I already have should be good. And btw, there are both WMA and WAV files on my external drive and on the audiofile USB, which is what brought me here in the first place. I didn't remember that BiaB automatically uses the WAV files unless they're not found.
I copy most (but not all) of the new RealTrack files after sorting by date. [Because it’s a lot smaller, I copy all the new RealDrums]
My point is, I do not use the PG Music installer so I have not seen your warning message. Certainly it is possible to install the RealTracks to a different drive, so I’m not sure what your message means. I do understand you know what you want.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
If I'm rendering stems or other .wav files that will again be worked on within my DAW, say for faux mastering or to be imported by another program or DAW I ensure I select Dither Master & Noise Shape Master as stacked processing does introduce artefact in the higher frequencies. I assume, because the lossy formats converted/unpacked to PCM/DSD etc. have filled gaps with zeros before truncation, that the problem is somewhat greater. Now, I render at 24bit if I need to move things or process further, as would most folk but processing by streamers etc. may introduce more. I usually upload 16 to streamers as a 24bit upload strains my bandwidth/allowance. Dan Worral explains it nicely & explains why it's not a problem and is a problem depending on one's needs.
Please excuse the rude title. Note...the little trick with -0.1dB is cool.
The concise explanation is at 12.43 in the video. At 15.59 he plays with MP3 in the same processing. Pity he didn't do WMA as that's germane to the website. Perhaps someone with the time & nous will try the process on one.
For my purposes, that is recording other "real" instruments at 24bit, the basic rules for me are :Dither/noise shape any time in 24bit. Dither Noise shape ONCE for 16 bit.
Given the relative cost of storage versus the time & expense of conversion, the higher cost for the "audiophile" version no longer seems justifiable to me other than marketing of course.
Last edited by rayc; 04/21/2207:28 PM.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
For several years a few of us have been suggesting that PG Music should consider making a 24-bit audiophile version. That would eliminate conversion for folks who want to work in 24-bit in a DAW (as I do). Of course, that would need at least a 3 TB drive, maybe 4.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
24 bit is nice but are the sources 24 bit or better to start with? Does PG Music have a server or five loaded with 24 bit, (or better), originals of all Real Tracks & Real Drums? The slow "roll out" of drum "stems" suggests that there may not be many original tracks from a mutli track RealDrum session available for release.
Again, given the status of storage these days, the need for "audiophile", (& that is another of many PG Music misnomers), as a special product is redundant.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
We tested ultra vs audiophile pretty hard a few years ago. Speakers ranging from $100 to $5000. Lots of different listeners Nobody consistently could tell
Maybe in the past it mattered.
Maybe.
biab2024(Mac) Latest Build Mac OS (Latest) Apple Mac Mini M2 pro 32GB Ram Logic Pro 11 Irwin Vice Grip Fencing Pliers
“We” is myself and some other friends. Musicians. Engineers Regular people My cat was disinterested in the entire effort and refused to take part. More than 5, less than 10 people.
My comments are Not presented as a scientific analysis. Just a collective opinion. It began as I was looking for a reason to give PG Music even more of my money every year and purchase the audiophile version. I found no compelling reason to do so based on “our” little test. That’s all.
I invite you do do it yourself. We used the Same Real Track arrangement rendered with 2 versions of BIAB (ultra and audiophile).
See what you find.
Maybe you’ll find different results.
Maybe not.
biab2024(Mac) Latest Build Mac OS (Latest) Apple Mac Mini M2 pro 32GB Ram Logic Pro 11 Irwin Vice Grip Fencing Pliers
Here is a spectral view of a RT 3063 Vocal Aahs.. the top track is wma and the bottom is wav with the same sections, both are direct from the RT folder on the Audiophile drive without processing using Biab Track Injector that allows you to use any file type compatible with Reaper.
the thing i like in reaps is to record in compressed file format my vocs eg flac. maybe i'm stupid but i cant hear diff from recording in wav. frankly i'm sick of running tests lol for confirmation bias.
ive lost count how many traks ive recorded over the years in reaps useing flac. thousands... thus a reason i posted a wish for bb n ' rb to do same...or use ogg or wavpak whatever.
imagine bb n' rb genning/recording/playback/mixing all useing a standard compressed format useing a m2 ssd.
wowser...speedy n' speedy.
loads of positives. sigh.
best
om
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
From the Reaper Community Forums regarding RECORDING TO FLAC: From as far back as 2009...things have progressed but, I suspect, the ratios would remain similar:
- flac 24bit quality=8 -> ~70% cpu usage (~10% on playback)
- wavpack 24bit quality=very high -> ~30% cpu usage (~15% on playback)
- wav pcm 24bit -> ~5% cpu usage"
What one may save, these days unnecessarily, on storage one may lose in buffer size, CPU usage, glitches & VST restrictions.
Even in 2009 it was clear: "Most algos are creating a file somewhere between 50% (theoretically) and 60% of the original file's size. Basically, a 10MB track will be 5.5MB in size (average).... With 16/32GB USB memory sticks and HDs in the 100s of GBs (and the individual tracks often being smaller than 10MB), I myself am not seeing much use for it."
Last edited by rayc; 12/03/2207:52 PM.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.
You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
Playable RealTracks Set 4
RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins
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