How do you guys go about writting songs. I have a very limited knowledge of chord theory, and can't figure out what chords whould go good with a meoldy. A lot of you seem to be able to shell out a song every day.
Computer: Macbook Pro, 16 inch 2021 DAWs: Pro Tools, Logic, and Maschine plays drums, percussion, bass, steel pan, keyboard, music producer/engineer
How do you guys go about writting songs. I have a very limited knowledge of chord theory, and can't figure out what chords whould go good with a meoldy. A lot of you seem to be able to shell out a song every day.
You'll probably need to up your game on chord theory and lyric creation with a bit of study. There are tons of songwriting and chord structure books out there. Author Robin Frederick has a fairly comprehensive group of books on the subject. Check her out on Amazon.com or FB:
Wow... this is a huge topic. But for starters.....
Having a basic knowledge of music theory is useful. Stuff like this: Knowing that in a given key... lets use the key of C major..... C is the root or also known as the 1 (ONE). A very basic song would normally have a chord set that can be used easily. In C, you can also use the 4 chord or F, and the 5 chord G, all using the scale of C major. So with 3 chords....C, F & G, you can write a simple song.
As you work with this you will just "feel" where the chord are going to be and what they are. Knowing that you only have 3 to choose from makes the process a bit easier.
As you do this, and get better, you will notice that there are generally patterns they follow.
Knowing the theory, 1,4,5 for example.... you can then take that same pattern and apply it to any key.
Theory is a vast and extremely deep subject. Like so many interesting subjects, you need to build a good basic foundation to really understand and appreciate the things that come later at the deeper levels. I'd suggest a basic beginners theory book for starters. And as a writer, you really don't need to have a thorough knowledge of theory to write songs.
Knowing the scales, major and minor, and the relation between the 1,4,5 progression that is used in so many blues and rock songs, as well as knowing what other chords can go well in the world of 1,4,5...such as using the 6 minor, is a good place to start your understanding.
Start by listening to songs that you like and try deconstructing them. Reverse engineer them. See how the writer put them together and use that as a guide to building your own originals.
All this is well and good, but a good song doesn't come from the head and a good understanding of music theory, it comes from the heart and having a basic understanding of music theory simply helps you to get it from the heart to the audible form for others to enjoy.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
To add to Herb, I posted some lessons and tips on this already in the Beginner's Forum. You may want to book mark Beginner's Forum.
The first link below will take you to Gary Ewer's site. His entire collection of books is about 35 bucks, but worth it if you want to learn chord progressions. He also has many free lessons on his website.
In the second link, I explain the basics of the pop chord progression.
Last, you should just go to style picker and open up a bunch of demos and study the chord progressions. After a while you will get it.
But, by the various sources I have mentioned, you have to master what:
I (C) ii (dm or dm7) iii (em or em7) IV (F) V (G) vi (am or am7) and VIIdim (Bdim) and I (C--back to root)---in the key of C as the example here---mean in every key, and how they relate to songwriting.
Also,,,, besides getting a basic music theory book, get a few on the art of songwriting. There are thousands of songwriting books on the market.
I have this one (among others) Six steps to songwriting success by Jason Blume. It's a good book on the art of crafting a song and some about the business as well... It covers song structure, lyrics and melody. Practically any book by someone who has successfully written songs and explains how they do it, would be a good addition to your library.
Get some education, but don't allow that educational process to get in the way of actually writing songs. Remember, don't write from the head..... write from the heart.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
Lenovo YOGA 900 Window s 10 Home 64bit M4 pro Mac mini 1tb HD 24GB mem casio wk7500 presonus audiobox i2 usb interface casio wk-7500 biab & realband 2025 everything pk both with Current builds
I honestly think the simplest way is going to hooktheory.com.
You check check out how thousands of songs are constructed withOUT knowing theory. You can simply look for how songs you like "look" and see patterns...even if it's just by color.
It also allows you to plug in chords from songs you like, and since you don't know what those may be, chances are some songs you like are already done. Plug those in, play with the timing a bit. Use some of the same notes (it actually allows you to stay within a key automatically) and have some fun!
You will start by making music. To me that has been fundamental in learning. My kids were writing songs before they know what they were doing. Out of doing, they were more excited to learn.
This can have you writing a song TODAY!
I hope that helps! That's not discounting the above advice. It's great advice. It can help explain what you are doing AND bring you in new directions as you learn.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
From a slightly different POV. Figure out what you want to say. In broad terms, think about your own experiences that you might want to expose in lyrics, not necessary to be poetic or rhyming, that can come with time. Melody's can happen by the way words come together naturally. Look at the way the Beatles lyrics told a story. BIAB is a great tool because you can try so many styles and chords, it's like a lego set for music,just dive in. Wyndham
But I can't fail to mention that Hook Theory is pretty big on:
I (C) ii (dm or dm7) iii (em or em7) IV (F) V (G) vi (am or am7) and VIIdim (Bdim) and I (C--back to root)---in the key of C as the example here---mean in every key, and how they relate to songwriting.
All good advice. I'll try a few alternate approaches.
1. Find a collaborator. If you have good ideas for a melody and feel, and can imagine whether a certain place feels major or minor, someone else can do the music arrangement.
2. Use BIAB to generate a song from your melody.
Of course, if it was easy, everyone would do it. Songwriting is a craft that takes a serious commitment to learn.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
I think this is a very interesting idea, of course, being a member and regional coordinator of a large and well known songwriter's association (Herb is part of our group).
Personally, I love songwriting sites (Gary Ewer has a great one) but I am not sure I have ever run across a great songwriting forum that had real substance to it. So I am intrigued. And also curious.
One thing I have noticed though: the majority of people I run across who say they want to become better songwriters become almost angry when you gently suggest that they may want to learn more than a G, C and D chord or read a book on lyric writing. I.e., when you tell them that songwriting is hard, and requires study, they actually get mad at you. But I know that without a basic and growing knowledge of theory--baby steps mind you--you simply will never be able to advance in your skills or take full advantage of a tool like BIAB.
My own best education in songwriting comes from my daily study of the style demos in BIAB--and finding amazingly cool chord progressions I never would have thought of. But that is after I already know what a I, I maj7, ii, iiim7, vi is...and so forth. I know why those chord progressions I find in BIAB demos are so cool because I already know the basics. So I know when someone has "broken a rule"--but done it in an ingenious way.
Then there is melody. That happens two ways. One way is you are born a genius like Paul McCartney and you can whistle hit melodies in your car as you go around the roundabout. The second way is you learn how to play an instrument and spend countless hours fiddling with notes until you find something that is catchy.
So, I am extremely interested in this idea, and would be your most avid reader.
But I do wonder, sometimes, if people realize how hard songwriting is and how much work and study it takes to become good.
That might not be the case here on the BIAB forum because there are so many talented and hardworking people here, but out there in the wider world you will find a lot of people who simply do not want to put forth the effort.
Just a few random thoughts. I would like to hear what other folks have to say about this. It could be wonderful if people took it seriously.
David Snyder Songwriter/Renaissance Man Studio + Fingers
I snickered at the thought until I realized 90% of "successful" songs have cowriters. I've tried to write with others a few times, but never found someone that fits. Different ears and goals and stuff.
And, yes, David, that is an interesting tendency, to bristle at suggestions. I know I do. Unless I'm not too vested in the song yet. I KNOW there's a problem, or I cringe on a certain line, where I'm just validating that they hear a problem also. It happened recently; I asked a good writer friend for an opinion, thoughts were given; I was irritated as heck; and he was right (I realized a week later).
Yes, listening to new BIAB demos....man, my head swims with song ideas when I do that...
Andy
BIAB 2017 Ultra Windows 8 and 10 Scarlet 18i8 Reaper and Mixpad
I snickered at the thought until I realized 90% of "successful" songs have cowriters. I've tried to write with others a few times, but never found someone that fits. Different ears and goals and stuff. And, yes, David, that is an interesting tendency, to bristle at suggestions. I know I do.
I get it....
I've co-written with just a couple of old band mates long ago but they asked for my input. As it was...they'd agreed with my suggestions.
I'm not interested in co-writing for the very reasons you state above. My music is not that complicated but I'm extremely particular about song subject, lyrics and lyrical phrasing. (If I could just sing up to my satisfaction that would be cool) I'll spend consecutive days making sure each line meets my satisfaction and avoiding vapid cliches.
So...co-writing, as a rule, would not work for me.
I should qualify that my songs and above approach to song writing has kept me a poor, common man and unknown song writing entity.
Lenovo YOGA 900 Window s 10 Home 64bit M4 pro Mac mini 1tb HD 24GB mem casio wk7500 presonus audiobox i2 usb interface casio wk-7500 biab & realband 2025 everything pk both with Current builds
Islansoul. Do February album writing month. www.fawm.org Jump in head and feet and write a song every two days for the month of February. Participate in the skirmishes and the forum and find collaborators. You will come out of the month with a very good start.
Wayne. EXACTLY! It's all me, its my experience, no one can understand it in my context. Or, it's all lies and BS, but, it's all MY lies and BS. No help needed, Thank you, but no. Please go away.
David. THANK YOU! I own a bunch of song/music books, as I'm sure you do also. I have a special shelf with the go-tos on it.
Yes, we all should do a thread on books!!!!
Andy
BIAB 2017 Ultra Windows 8 and 10 Scarlet 18i8 Reaper and Mixpad
We have so many great songwriters here. Perhaps we should add a dedicated songwriters forum. Tips n tricks questions discusssions etc.
We should have a songwriters forum, as that would help me out so much. Guys, I do understand what chords are, and the basics of chord structure such as the I IV V used in pop rock, the 12 bar blues, and the II V I in jazz, but again when it comes to chord and melody, I somehow feel a bit lost.
Computer: Macbook Pro, 16 inch 2021 DAWs: Pro Tools, Logic, and Maschine plays drums, percussion, bass, steel pan, keyboard, music producer/engineer
My problem has never been writing songs, it's not losing them. I've probably written a thousand or more sure fire hits (in my mind) while driving in my car with inspiration coming from a rattle, constant humming rhythm or some other noise. Great hooks and lyric phrases have popped into my head only to mysteriously disappear an hour later when I'm home and try to recall what I knew to be such a great write.
I recall seeing in a documentary that one of the early Bee Gees disco monster hits came about as they began singing over the repetitive rhythm sound of their car crossing a bridge in Miami every day driving to the recording studio.
On one occasion, I woke during the night immediately after dreaming about a song and was able to record the complete song and lyrics, chord progression down. The song was recorded several years later on my band's 1975 album.
Nearly everyone I know sings aloud making up jingles and pieces of songs, changing lyrics to a popular song they're listening to on the radio. They just never try to write in a serious manner. They don't think they have the talent.
Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: AI Stems & Notes - split polyphonic audio into instruments and transcribe
This video demonstrates how to use the new AI-Notes feature together with the AI-Stems splitter, allowing you to select an audio file and have it separated into individual stems while transcribing each one to its own MIDI track. AI-Notes converts polyphonic audio—either full mixes or individual instruments—into MIDI that you can view in notation or play back instantly.
Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®
With your version 2026 for Windows Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
Playable RealTracks Set 5
RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
Android Band-in-a-Box® App (included)
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Join Tobin as he takes you on a tour of the new user interface in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®! This modern GUI redesign offers a sleek new look with updated toolbars, refreshed windows, and a smoother workflow. The brand-new side toolbar puts track selection, the MultiPicker Library, and other essential tools right at your fingertips. Plus, our upgraded Multi-View lets you layer multiple windows without overlap, giving you a highly flexible workspace. Many windows—including Tracks, Piano Roll, and more—have been redesigned for improved usability and a cleaner, more intuitive interface, and more!
Introducing XPro Styles PAK 10 – Now Available for Windows Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 10 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 21 – Now Available for Windows Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!
Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Introducing XPro Styles PAK 10 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 10 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 21 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!
Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
One of our representatives will be happy to help you over the phone. Our hours of operation are from
6:00AM to 6:00PM PST (GMT -8) Monday thru Friday, and 8:00AM to 4:00PM PST Saturday. We are closed Sunday. You can also send us your questions via email.
One of our representatives will be happy to help you on our Live Chat or by email. Our hours of operation are from
6:00AM to 6:00PM PST (GMT -8) Monday thru Friday; 8:00AM to 4:00PM PST (GMT -8) Saturday; Closed Sunday.
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean