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Songwriting
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We have so many great songwriters here. Perhaps we should add a dedicated songwriters forum. Tips n tricks questions discusssions etc. Cool idea. Anything and everything about the writing of music and lyrics. It could be a neat place for folks to ask questions about the process and art of writing as well as seek out collaborators in an open forum.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Songwriting
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Joined: Jan 2013
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Wayne. EXACTLY! It's all me, its my experience, no one can understand it in my context. Andy.... Typically, I'm very selective when it comes to song writing. My song subjects come from my personal experiences, my take of an aspect of life or imagined story lines. (IE: for concept projects) Not forlorn songs about love lost or broken hearts. Hence...all my song writing efforts are very personal to me. Although, I do think I may have in my early writing archives about (3) of the woman/ballad genre but the last one was written in 1983. We all have our propensities and there's a myriad of subjects to write about. A good day to all....
Last edited by chulaivet1966; 12/11/16 04:18 AM.
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Songwriting
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One of Janice's favorite singers, Gregg Allman, said there are as many ways to write a song as there are songs. He also said that if there is a song in your soul it wiill come out. For us irrespective of genre a song works if it has soul (yeah, I know, define that Bud).
There are hundreds of roots songs, particularly classic bluegrass for example, that have the power to rip the paint right off of your heart. And they are three chords written by folks who couldn't tell you what I IV V means. I'm trying, perhaps poorly, to express that song writing is a big tent that includes the sophistication and class of Duke Ellington to the "true life" writings of Bill Monroe and Carter Stanley.
That's the wonder of it. Not everybody is trying to write a hit. Not everybody has an arsenal of chords. Heck, a lot of writers can't read music. But that doesn't mean they don't have something to say. Or that they might not let you experience their soul for a few minutes.
Bud
PS We think the idea of a songwriting forum would be very cool.
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos are here on our website.
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Songwriting
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eddie1261
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eddie1261
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It has been my experience that I need to have a story to tell. I have never been able to just sit down and write something if I don't have a story in mind. My CD was truly 9 stories from my life.
I need to start dating somebody again and have her dump me so I have something to work with. And really, the finding somebody to date is the hard part. The getting dumped part is pretty much a given....
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Journeyman
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It has been my experience that I need to have a story to tell. I have never been able to just sit down and write something if I don't have a story in mind. My CD was truly 9 stories from my life.
I need to start dating somebody again and have her dump me so I have something to work with. And really, the finding somebody to date is the hard part. The getting dumped part is pretty much a given.... OK Eddie...you made me laugh. At least you have a sense of humor about it. But, man are your right. As for me, I need a story to get me started also. No story..no song. Bob
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Songwriting
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Given all the books we've read, movies and tv shows we've seen, all the stories we've heard and all the personal stories we've been through -- there should be no lack of things to write about. I don't write personal stories about myself, I make everything up. Some of it works and some of it doesn't -- just like real life.
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Songwriting
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I've sat down a few times with no story in mind, and nothing to write about.
I just started writing and ended up with a few good songs that way. Of course, that road is littered with the broken, derelict, rotting shells of the songs that never made it to the finish line.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Songwriting
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I just started writing and ended up with a few good songs that way. Of course, that road is littered with the broken, derelict, rotting shells of the songs that never made it to the finish line.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!! That may be the funniest thing I have ever heard on this forum!! Ha ha ha ha. A classic!!! Herb, you need to write a song about those rotting eggs man. Throw in a walrus and you're done!
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Apprentice
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Apprentice
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Ha! Breakups and barrooms.
Andy
BIAB 2017 Ultra
Windows 8 and 10
Scarlet 18i8
Reaper and Mixpad
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Songwriting
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I just started writing and ended up with a few good songs that way. Of course, that road is littered with the broken, derelict, rotting shells of the songs that never made it to the finish line.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!! That may be the funniest thing I have ever heard on this forum!! Ha ha ha ha. A classic!!! Herb, you need to write a song about those rotting eggs man. Throw in a walrus and you're done! Coo coo ka choo
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Songwriting
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You do yourself a disservice if you don't at least check out the aforementioned free Pat Pattinson course from Berklee.
Last edited by rockstar_not; 12/12/16 08:34 AM.
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I checked it out! Useful tips! Thanks!!
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Songwriting
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To the specific question of "What chords would go good with a melody", there are a number of factors to the answer.
But first, you need to know what chords are in the key.
This requires that you know the key that you're in.
Once you know the key, you need to know the notes of the scale. For example, the notes of the D major scale are (D, E, F#, G, A, B, C#). The notes of the F major scale are (F, G, A, Bb, C, D, E).
Once you know the notes, you can create a list of chords in the scale. The 1st, 4th and 5th notes of a major scale will always give you a major chord. The 2nd, 3rd and 5th will give you a minor chord. The 7th note will give you a diminished chord.
So if you're in the key of D major, you have the chords:
D (D, F#, A)
Em (E, G, B)
F#m (F#, A, C#)
G (G, B, D)
A (A, C#, E)
Bm (B, D, F#)
C#dim (C#, E, G)
Again, I assume you already know this.
OK, now on to the "rules":
1. Most importantly: No matter what the "rules" tell you, if it sounds good, it is good. And if it sounds bad, it is bad.
2. Typically, only "important" notes need to match with the chords. If a note isn't on a strong beat (1st or 3rd beat), or is short, it's OK if that note doesn't go with the chord. A little bit of dissonance makes things interesting.
3. A chord will go with a melody if the melody note is a member of the chord. So if you're in the key of D and have a C# note in the melody, any chord with a C# will sound good. Reworking the chord chart above, we get:
D -> D, Bm, G
E -> Em, C#dim, A
F#m -> F#m, D, Bm
G -> G, Em, C#dim
A -> A, F#m, D
B -> Bm, G, F$
C# -> C#dim, A, F#m[
So the chords C#dim, A and F#m will all sound good with the note C#. You don't really need to make a list, you can just find the chord based on the note you're looking at (C#dim), two steps under that note (A) and two steps over that note (E).
In contrast, the chord G won't work, because the G chord doesn't have a C# note in it - the notes of the G chord are (G,B,D).
This raises the question, "What chords go with other chords?" The answer is "it depends", but in general:
1. If the chord is 3 scale degrees higher than the prior chord, it's strong and smooth. So a D chord will strongly follow a A chord, because D is 3 scale degrees above A: (A,B,C#,D). Similarly, Bm will follow an F#m.
There's a handy diagram called the "Circle of Fifth" or the "Cycle of Fourths" that Google will happily find for you. Learn it and love it.
2. If a chord shares two notes of the prior chord, it'll sound smooth. So a D chord with the notes (D,F#,A) will connect smoothly with a Bm chord containing (B,D,F#), because they share the two notes (D,F#).
3. If the chord is a major and belongs to the key, it can move to any other major chord in that scale. For example, the key of D has three major chords: D, G and A. So any of these chords will smoothly follow each other.
-- David Cuny My virtual singer development blogVocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?BiaB 2025 | Windows 11 | Reaper | Way too many VSTis.
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Songwriting
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To the specific question of "What chords would go good with a melody", there are a number of factors to the answer.
But first, you need to know what chords are in the key.
This requires that you know the key that you're in.
Once you know the key, you need to know the notes of the scale. For example, the notes of the D major scale are (D, E, F#, G, A, B, C#). The notes of the F major scale are (F, G, A, Bb, C, D, E).
Once you know the notes, you can create a list of chords in the scale. The 1st, 4th and 5th notes of a major scale will always give you a major chord. The 2nd, 3rd and 5th will give you a minor chord. The 7th note will give you a diminished chord.
So if you're in the key of D major, you have the chords:
D (D, F#, A)
Em (E, G, B)
F#m (F#, A, C#)
G (G, B, D)
A (A, C#, E)
Bm (B, D, F#)
C#dim (C#, E, G)
Again, I assume you already know this.
OK, now on to the "rules":
1. Most importantly: No matter what the "rules" tell you, if it sounds good, it is good. And if it sounds bad, it is bad.
2. Typically, only "important" notes need to match with the chords. If a note isn't on a strong beat (1st or 3rd beat), or is short, it's OK if that note doesn't go with the chord. A little bit of dissonance makes things interesting.
3. A chord will go with a melody if the melody note is a member of the chord. So if you're in the key of D and have a C# note in the melody, any chord with a C# will sound good. Reworking the chord chart above, we get:
D -> D, Bm, G
E -> Em, C#dim, A
F#m -> F#m, D, Bm
G -> G, Em, C#dim
A -> A, F#m, D
B -> Bm, G, F$
C# -> C#dim, A, F#m[
So the chords C#dim, A and F#m will all sound good with the note C#. You don't really need to make a list, you can just find the chord based on the note you're looking at (C#dim), two steps under that note (A) and two steps over that note (E).
In contrast, the chord G won't work, because the G chord doesn't have a C# note in it - the notes of the G chord are (G,B,D).
This raises the question, "What chords go with other chords?" The answer is "it depends", but in general:
1. If the chord is 3 scale degrees higher than the prior chord, it's strong and smooth. So a D chord will strongly follow a A chord, because D is 3 scale degrees above A: (A,B,C#,D). Similarly, Bm will follow an F#m.
There's a handy diagram called the "Circle of Fifth" or the "Cycle of Fourths" that Google will happily find for you. Learn it and love it.
2. If a chord shares two notes of the prior chord, it'll sound smooth. So a D chord with the notes (D,F#,A) will connect smoothly with a Bm chord containing (B,D,F#), because they share the two notes (D,F#).
3. If the chord is a major and belongs to the key, it can move to any other major chord in that scale. For example, the key of D has three major chords: D, G and A. So any of these chords will smoothly follow each other. Wow! That was REALLY nice of you to do AND very useful...yet brief enough to have someone jump right in! To me, it is more important to get someone going using something than trying to teach them EVERYTHING right away...giving them information constipation. Some really great songs have been written that are really simple. From there I feel people "catch the learning bug." I will be showing this to my kids! Thanks!
Last edited by HearToLearn; 12/12/16 11:21 AM.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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David, you should cross-post this to the tips and tricks forum.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2025/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com
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David. What a great simple explanation. Thank you for taking the time to type this out. I am going to write it out in G (my favourite key) and stick it on my wall.
Last edited by JoanneCooper; 12/12/16 04:36 PM.
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Songwriting
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eddie1261
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eddie1261
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But thing #1 is that you need to expect and accept that you are going to write a LOT of bad songs before you start writing decent ones. I mean the evolution is something like:
bad
not as bad
so so
kinda sorta decent
decent
kinda sorta okay
okay
kinda sort good
good
And those are not one song intervals.
What I am saying in a lighthearted way is that the only way to learn how to play darts is to throw a lot of darts. And the only way to learn how to shoot free throws is to shoot a lot of free throws. And the only way to hit a bulls eye at the gun range is to throw a LOT of rounds downrange.
The only way to learn how to write songs is to just write those bad songs as you grow. Figure out what your story is, write the story out in lines that have a cadence, feeling where beats would be. That gives you some idea for cadence and tempo. Remember that your tempo can't be so fast that you can't get the words out between breaths. Once the cadence of the lyrics fits the cadence of the music (you will feel where natural pulses fit together) then you start thinking about the melody. You may go through 4-5 different melodies before you are comfortable with one.
Just as an example, let's pick The Beatles Love Me Do. Think of those lyrics.
Love, love me do
You know I love you
I'll always be true
So please......
Love me do
and then think of how those lyrics lay against the cadence of the music. That is a loose definition of prosody, how lyrics and music work together.
Now think of their song I've Just Seen A Face. That is a very wordy lyric, but when you lay it against the tempo of the song, they fit together. Think of it like when you slip your hand into a baseball glove and the fingers of your hand naturally find their way into the fingers of the glove. That's what you are after.
This is also where some basic music lessons would help you if you have never taken any. Learning about tempo, where the "1" is in every measure, what a measure is, how to read what the little dots are all about, especially the time value of the quarter note, the half note, the whole note, what a dot behind a note means, tied notes... You don't need to go DEEP into theory, but basics. Like maybe knowing why the different key signatures have sharps and flats. Someone mentioned a chord wheel. When you look at the wheel, moving to the right, each new key adds one sharp. C has none, G has 1, D has 2, etc. When you see the relativity of G being the 5th note of the C scale, and D being the 5th note of the G scale and so forth, it starts to make sense quickly. And going to the left of the wheel you add 1 flat at a time, and those flats happen on the 4th note of a scale. So C has no flats, the 4th note of the C scale is F, and F has one flat. The 4th note of the F scale is B flat, which has 2 flats, and so on. Do you NEED to know that stuff to let BIAB wrote your music and go play at Billy's Bar? Nope! But knowing how to use those tools helps your songwriting craftsmanship like knowing a hammer from a chisel helps a carpenter. It would honestly become clear to you quickly if you took a music fundamentals course at your local community college. Most young people these days learn songs. Nobody learns music.
I hope that made SOME kind of sense to you.
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Songwriting
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Circle of fifths is a great tool, I use it all the time. There are lots of webpages that talk about it, here is one: http://guitaristguitarist.com/guitar_music_theory.htmlI have one printed out and pinned to my wall for reference, I think this is the image I used: Circle of Fifths chart
Last edited by BlueAttitude; 12/12/16 11:43 PM.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Introducing XPro Styles PAK 10 – Now Available for Windows Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
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Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Introducing XPro Styles PAK 10 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 10 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 10 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 21 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!
Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 21.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 21 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Windows is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows is here and it is packed with major new features! There’s a new modern look, a GUI redesign to all areas of the program including toolbars, windows, workflow and more. There’s a Multi-view layout for organizing multiple windows. A standout addition is the powerful AI-Notes feature, which uses AI neural-net technology to transcribe polyphonic audio into MIDI—entire mixes or individual instruments—making it easy to study, view, and play parts from any song. And that’s just the beginning—there are over 60 new features in this exciting release.
Along with version 2026, we've released an incredible lineup of new content! There's 202 new RealTracks, brand-new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two new RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
Special Offers
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows and save up to 50% on most upgrade packages during our special offer—available until December 31, 2025. Visit our Band-in-a-Box® packages page to explore all available upgrade options.
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK Add-ons
Our Free Bonus PAK and 49-PAK are loaded with amazing add-ons! The Free Bonus PAK is included with most Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows packages, but you can unlock even more—including 20 unreleased RealTracks—by upgrading to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49. Browse the full contents of each package and listen to demos here.
XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
The XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs special offers are now available until August 31st at 11:59pm PDT!
Ready to take your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 experience to the next level? Now’s the perfect time! Expand your style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs—packed with a wide variety of genres to inspire your next musical creation.
What are XPro Styles and Xtra Styles PAKs?
XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-9 includes 900 styles!
Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). With over 3,500 styles (and 35 MIDI styles) included in Xtra Styles PAKs 1-20, the possibilities are endless!
Get the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Get Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 19 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Don’t miss this chance to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box setup—at a great price!
Mac 2025 Special Upgrade Offers Extended Until August 15th!
It's not too late to upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® and save! We've extended our special until August 15, 2025!
We've added many major new features to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, including advanced AI tools like the amazing BB Stem Splitter and AI Lyrics Generator, as well as VST3 plugin support, and Equalize Temp. Plus, there’s a new one-stop MIDI Patches Picker with over 1,100 MIDI patches to choose from, all neatly categorized by GM numbers. The MultiPicker Library is enhanced with tabs for the SongPicker, MIDI Patch Picker, Chord Builder, AI Lyrics Generator, and Song Titles Browser, and the tabs are organized into logical groups. The Audiophile Edition is enhanced with FLAC files , which are 60% smaller than AIFF files while maintaining identical audio quality, and now ships on a fast 1TB SSD, and much more!
Check out all the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® here:
Purchase your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac during our special to save up to 50% off your upgrade purchase and receive a FREE BONUS PAK of amazing new Add-ons. These include the 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK, Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana, Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes, MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano, Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7, Playable RealTracks Set 4, RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark, and more!
Upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and add 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and 20 RealStyles, FLAC Files for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks, Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster, MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster, Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8, and RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe.
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs!
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