Apologies if this is common knowledge, but I've never had the time to research UserTracks creation very much. Some posts today got me interested.
For a UserTrack of jazz flugelhorn soloing to be useful to me and perhaps others, I think I would have to make a template of a BIAB song that would best have me record over almost all possible changes and keys. With extensions like b9, #9, 11, 13 and Alt chords and their combinations, in progressions, this would be a pretty long song, wouldn't it? I wouldn't want my style defaulting to playing major, minor, sus, augmented and diminished chords only, but instead get into the upper extensions and modes.
If my assumption is correct, has anyone made such a song template?
Thanks.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
OK, after doing some research and receiving some wonderful tips from Frank (Seeker), I think what I need is a jazz version of this supplied Pop music template:
Pop UserTracks 30 minute template.zip
More detail: In the PG Music tutorial http://www.pgmusic.com/usertracks1.htm they have a Pop 1 minute and a Jazz 1 minute. But for the 10, 20 and 30 minute templates, there is only one for Pop, not for Jazz. The 30-minute Pop template says it has some jazz chords, but I need more extensions (even if the template has to be longer).
Is this a Wishlist item?
Thanks.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
This is a very interesting discussion. I think the key to a Soloist RT is the link between a certain phrase and the underlying chord. I've heard some RT Soloists play basic pentatonic phrases over all kinds of complex extensions. Other times there will be something like a Gb9#5 chord and all the soloist does is play one note until the next chord change so obviously there is nothing there that encompasses that chord. This is just an observation, I have no idea how that chord/soloist link actually works.
Many of the midi soloists are much better than the RT soloists except of course for the overall sound quality and live nuances that's missing from midi. But as far as actual notes are concerned the midi soloists really do follow the changes better than the RT soloists do.
I think the reason for that is the file size limitation of the RT's. The RT artist would have to play so many different variations that the file size would be too big while midi can keep scrambling and creating note phrases almost endlessly. I say I think because it's just a guess.
RapidComposerLE is great for fitting midi anywhere you like. It will read the chords from BB Chord Output midi and give you the same chord sheet as BB.
Bob, I believe you understand what I'm asking; the soloist who vamps on a whole note because that particular chord extension wasn't in the song used as a template. I think you are correct based on an early experience I had with RealTracks: I discovered that one piano part didn't know what a minorMajor7 chord was, so every time I wrote that chord, the piano stopped playing for that measure. After I reported it to PG Music, they released a patch and it was fixed. It could have been miscoded, or maybe there really wasn't a recording snippet of that chord type - we don't know.
This is why I originally asked about the need for a jazz template song with all the chord types.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
I'm wondering, what if you found a style you believe could be enhanced with a jazz flugelhorn solo and identified the RealTracks used in the style.
Then you could take one of the Realtracks and run ALL the wave files through the Audio Chord Wizard. The Audio Chord Wizard can "build" the chord sheet or at least help you determine what chords that RealTracks instrument provides.
Once you have a chord sheet you can more easily determine what solo is appropriate.
For making Jazz User Tracks, please do create a far more complex set of chords. I fell in love with BIAB because it had such a strong emphasis on jazz, salsa, blues, etc. However, making a user track is meaningless, unless the "training" template contains the many variations that you'd find in, e.g. the Jazz Real Books. Without a 9th, maj9th, flatted 9th, etc, one can't really create a useful jazz user track.
Since there's even an excellent video on making your own user tracks, a user gets a sudden disappointment when trying to do so. Since it makes sense to have this done in the same way the Pop User Track Templates were done, please DO get to this (I invested the $1k, & keep it up to date each year). It would make NO sense for each user to create their own TEMPLATE files, since each person who wants to use this feature for Jazz will re-invent the wheel!
The quality of BIAB is now rather impressive; please keep it moving to a better & better product!
Thanks, I posted a very similar item about adding Jazz-specific User Track templates to the User Track Wishlist area. Is this the area you meant? Are there any user-created Jazz User Track Training templates posted elsewhere?
You just need someone with a good ear to load each track from a realtrack jazz instrument into RealBand or Biab then chord each one out and save them as Jazz UserTrack Templates.
You can make the UserTracks soloist in particular scales by using "Drum" in the name. Then when Bar 2 Bar regen is added (maybe this year) and change UserTrack at any bar with F5 things will be easy. You can have a lot a separate SGUs this way it will be more random and not playing the next lot of bars in the one SGU but choosing from the other SGUs. Any phrases can be kept together in the UserTrack bar settings. You can set any parts as A,B fill, post fill, ending.
Now with Melodyne 5 it will get the chords and scales, the chords can be exported as midi > Lead Sheet So you can scale and chord out the RealTracks to make a UserTrack template.
Thanks for reviving this thread, Pipeline. It’s amazing this goes back four years. Also you mention Melodyne 5, and I just upgraded.
If I’m reading your ideas correctly, you are proposing to create the jazz template by extracting chords from RealTracks. I wouldn’t have any trouble transcribing chords that are played but I’m not sure how that helps here. My assumption is that UserTracks must be created in a certain way for them to be useable by BIAB and I don’t know how to set that up with complex chords.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
That's all set in the F5 UserTracks Development, if you can chord and key it out, record it, then go into the settings. It helps if you have the file in RealBand or you DAW with a 2 bar offset for the count-in so the bar numbers line up, then you can play it while setting the F5 UserTracks settings in Biab. So if a riff you want Biab to play starts on 9 and ends on 12 you can Don’t start a new Riff on this bar 10-12,
If you want you can add them to Only choose this bar if the key matches 9-12 and/or Only play this for a post fill 9-12
Material in A or B part markers should play in their section. Remember to hit the Update as you go.
The more playing you have the better as it's less likely to over transpose things, there are 12key RealTrack but it depends how keen you are. You just need to experiment with it and if you are happy with the results use it or upload it.
Bar # and Chorus # indicate the current song location. This is the bar where the settings will be applied, but you can apply them to a range of bars if you enter a list (3,5,7) and/or range (10-20, 25-28) of bars, separated by commas, in the edit control box under Enter a Range of Bars.
Press the [Update] button to save the settings.
Don’t include this bar in the UserTracks excludes the current bar (or range of bars, if set) from the UserTracks and will never be used.
Ending starts on this bar (4 bar ending) sets the current bar as the first bar of the 4 bar ending. Don’t start a new Riff on this bar prevents the current bar from being used as the start of a new riff. This is useful if the bar has sustained notes carried over from the previous bar and no new attack of a note.
Don’t End a Riff at the start of this bar means that the current bar (or list of bars in the edit control) will not be used to end a riff at the start of the bar. This is useful if the previous bar doesn’t have a defined ending for a riff.
Only choose this bar if the key matches allows the bar to be used only if the user’s song key matches the key of this song. So, if this is the IV chord, it would only get chosen if it will be the IV chord in the user’s song.
This bar is simple sets the bar to use simple riffs.
Only Play this for a fill sets the current bar as a fill, which will only be played where the user’s song is also a fill.
Only play this for a post fill (after a fill) sets the current bar (or list of bars in the edit control) to only play after a fill in the user’s song.
Odd/Even must match sets the current bar to play in the user’s song only if the odd/even status (bars after a part marker) matches the user’s song.
Always play this bar if it matches means that the current bar (or list of bars) will always get played, as long as its chord and other settings are compatible. It overrides any other riffs that match.
Once is enough (don’t repeat this) sets the bar to only be played once in a song. Use for an unusual riff that you don’t want repeated.
Bar/Beat Markers You can set the location of the bar or beat markers if the riff doesn’t start on the bar or beat. You can set the location in ms offset, and also set the riff marker type, begin and/or end. The offsets can be set visually in the Audio Edit window.
I’m still a newbie and have never tried to create a UserTrack. But have some ideas for tracks, so going to ask a possibly naive question. Does BiaB care whether a Usertrack was created from the jazz template versus the pop template? Why not just create one use the most complex 30 minute Pop template with the extra chords?
Another question - can a UserTrack be created in 3/4 time?
Chuck Wiggins
BIAB 2023 Win UltraPak, Cakewalk, Windows 10 Pro Custom AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 8-Core, Focusrite Scarlett 4x4 interface
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