PG Music Home Forums PG Music Product Forums Band-in-a-Box for Windows BIAB 2017 Edition: Likes? Dislikes?

Mike, the new GUI does show the song position in the new progress bar (available from the Modern and Classic User Interface). You can also double-click on any bar to start playback.

The progress bar also gives you a reasonably good idea of the song's position. I believe I read that further changes to this are planned.

Edit: oops, didn't see page 2 and VideoTrack's response.

Peter,

I'm not sure why my adjusted post is not clear - but I have said that I have been happy with the crooner styles released in 2016. I am comparing NOT the instrumentation of the new jazz combo styles - but of the overall sound. "Tight" or not "tight" - my *opinion* is that the new styles are not as "pleasing" as the previous realtrack release (namely crooner). "Just use crooner" is not exactly a replacement because for my use - I'm more interested in the smaller combo type realtracks for daily use. The feedback stands that I think these could be improved.

Note: that - as my preference is for the smaller combo sound - the fact that the 2016 crooner styles are more full is not why I like them better. It seems the note choices are better and even down to the sound engineering as I pointed out in some specific feedback. So the feedback: a) seems to be some artifacts in the recording (or playback "stretching") which causes a single note to sound odd in the recording (a long tone), b) the combined notes of the instruments sounded like all instruments had a similar character (like the same instrument doubled at different intervals) which seemed to place the notes all "in phase" and sounded a bit more synthetic than the previous recordings, c) the note choices of the combo parts may be part of what can be improved although most of my feedback is on the "sound" (individual instruments, character of instruments in mix - or lack of it) rather than the notes choice/resulting intervals.

I've listened to demos of 2017 content. This is what I was "on the fence" about for the 2017 purchase. I already have 2016 - so I would not be providing feedback for previous content.

I didn't provide links for ALL of what I reviewed - since I "circled bacK" and provided links for the last content reviewed. I mean - this is a fair thing to do, no? I didn't say - "this link proves bigband styles have some problem" - I gave a link for the specific style I was reviewing and earlier in the message did not provide any link at all for that portion of the feedback. The new edited content removed any mention of the bigband styles altogether as to avoid the pushback.

Obviously, from continued support - I value band in a box. I can understand if there needs to be clarification, to gather that information. I would have hoped for a less defensive - "we value your feedback" - or perhaps question if something wasn't clear. My goal is to help improve BIAB. "Best thing since sliced bread" has its place - and is as valuable as "the pumpernickel is a little salty for my taste".

Note that in the previous post - I was asking for reinforcement OR counter opinions. I did receive some feedback from another user that the small group players seemed (and I paraphrase) lost as to what to play because the other user felt the tempo made it hard for the virtual players to figure out what to play. It was some sense of reinforcement. I think also was feedback to keep hitting regenerate until something pleasing comes out. Somewhat neutral feedback - a "workaround" type response.

Thanks for keeping an open mind and commitment to constant improvement of the product - as I know PG Music has had a very good track record in this category.

Jason,

Most people like the crooner big band because it is a big band. You are looking for small combos instead. Sorry that's not what we have.

This is what we have, and it sounds good to me... (these are the same demos I listed above).

Crooner Ballad BigBand http://nn.pgmusic.com/pgfiles/audio/realtracksdemos/2792band.m4a _BLIZARD.sty or _WINTER.sty style
Crooner Bossa BigBand http://nn.pgmusic.com/pgfiles/audio/realtracksdemos/2781band.m4a _GOLDEN.sty

In any event, thank you for your support and feedback.

edit - a bit more "verbose" version. Didn't see your last reply. Thanks for considering the feedback. Rest of post will be left as-is below:

My original message was pre-purchase. Obviously, there's no way to "dig in" to the realtracks from "first hand" pre-purchase. I have to decide if I want to purchase based on the demos. So that's what I, as a customer did. This is normal, no? Should I have purchased it instead and requested a refund without reviewing the content - and not queried the group for feedback on what they thought? It's not normally my workflow in deciding on a software purchase.

I reviewed:
https://youtu.be/o60HpFwFsOM
Learned about the improved tab. Basically some notation - and better transcription quality. This was neat.
On content - Starting at 3:40 I learned about some of the new content. Nice sounding blues/guitar oriented tracks. The Hawaiian styles. South American style. House style. Hip Hop/Rap. Celtic Harp. Modern pedal steel. Gypsy Jazz Guitar/Accordion - gypsy guitar sounded great. Rock shuffle/even 8th. I think I was fine with the _BLIZARD demo. Right now I do not have my studio together since the monitors connect to a piece of equipment I used for new years and is not back in service. Notice I may be more critical now I have transparent studio reference monitors as opposed to my memory of previous 2016 crooner styles which was all referenced using laptop speakers which certainly is not a great cross-comparison. I'll have to go back to 2016 and see if the previous crooner horns have the same "qualities" as the 2017 content using the same monitors. I think _BRASLIA - I did have some critique on the horns. I think the exposed sax section had some issues - when the flutes came in, I think the thought the blending was off. And yes, this is judging by the demo because it's what is available to the consumer pre-sale.

I did not give this level of detail since I had already "skimmed through" many demos and did not, at first, take note of the demos which were source to the opinions. Happy to go back, as I am now, and clarify.

To continue with this demo - I learned about the plain notation which I can use triangle for major, minus for minor, and circle for dim or half-dim. This is indeed a great feature and preferable to Cmin7b5 type notation for half diminished. Triangle is usually my shorthand too for maj (or maj7 - [triangle]7) so that this is certainly a welcome feature. Again, focus for the "on the fence" wasn't these new features since I can deal with all sorts of notation. As mentioned, my priority is the sound output - then some of these features take a lower priority (just for me). I wanted to be transparent about my personal perspective.

I thought the soprano soloist was cool - but didn't think this was featuring any new background content - although the background sounded fine.

The new VST was interesting. I had already heard/read some discussion on the forum about it. Use of the new sample format - or ability to leverage that existing content was interesting. Although I saw that as a bit of a "project". It's nice to have the additional tonal options for what I imagine are the MIDI tracks. Since I'm gravitating to realtracks these days - I kind of "glossed over" this as a "front-line" feature - but do appreciate the continued progression for all portions of BIAB.

Styles features (shortcut key), or song database match, etc - these are all good improvements.

The natural arrangements feature is nice. Although I sometimes use extensions to dictate what some parts will do (it's somewhat trial and error depending on the style - but sometimes can force an interpretation by changing the extensions - certainly by changing the slash chord for the bass) - it's good I can turn this on/off (to get previous behavior if off) and nice that it seems I can selectively choose realtracks. Seems I cannot selectively choose midi tracks - although I have moved away from MIDI tracks for the most part. So this is fine.

New drum groove choices are great.

The looping feature is great for practicing.

Some other misc features - all good improvements.

I checked out the 49-pak https://youtu.be/KKfsZyV7VLw

_JAZGRIN.STY - thought that was good, _TENBALL - so so, _MISSYOU - I think the organ styles are the main reason I picked up the 49 pak. 4OLIVES and _EVENING were good for the intended purpose. _STARRY is back to the organ - which I thought was a great "set" of sounds to have. I don't think the great sounding organ was limited to the 49pak. _CASUALE the comping or tone sounded off - not a huge deal. _TENBOSS _ORGBOSS is back to the organ sound - great. _BOPNORG - another reason, for me, to get the 49pak. _SWINGOR/_SWIFTOR - again with the organ. Needless to say - lots to like here. I originally wasn't focused on the 49pak because it wasn't a "core" 2017 offering. So if these were great or not wasn't make/break for me. Although there's lots of great stuff here. Mainly the organ styles for me - although there are good non-organ jazz styles there as well. The M_* styles don't sound as great to me since, for the organ, the MIDI organ doesn't sound as great in the demo. However, combine this with the new feature of the SFZ player - this does give the flexibility to sub the MIDI organ for anything else I can find out there in SFZ format which opens up some sonic possibilities.

I checked out the 2017 features quick overview https://youtu.be/5p1mI1fsPm8

The realband/realtrack improvements ("with elastique 3") is interesting. I do trust (paraphrase) "it'll sound better" - although there's more discussion by digging in the forum.

This video talked about a new simple font for the chord symbols. I think I prefer hand-written. I think I would have preferred this font to be sanserif and the symbol (like the half-diminished) to have a more rounded "o" (add the slash) rather than the squished/elongated "O". Maybe the simple font matches some existing publisher's font style for chords - which is fine. Also, something like a G7 - I would expect a simple chord notation to have the "7" the same size as the "G". This may be a real-estate issue - which is also fine.

The new layers to display chords in two keys at once - the top line has something more in-line of the font I was describing above. Looks like the simple notation is turned off in this example (since I see m7b5 instead of slashed circles). The layering feature is good for practicing with multiple (2 max) transposed instruments, or one concert and one transposed - so is good. Assuming this gains support - I would expect more "lines" (at least 3) so we can have Concert Pitch + Bb + Eb - which would cover most situations (bass, guitar, piano, flute, alto, tenor, soprano, bari, bones, trumpets, clarinets, etc) - all reading the same "chart" at once. At some point maybe multi-screen (multi-window, which would each be positioned "docked" to a different screen) would be interesting.

Ok - at 2:40, here's another demo of the new crooner styles. _BLIZARD sounds similarly fine (maybe even the same clip). _BRASLIA sounds different here, doesn't start with a sax section (trumpets/flute - sort of the Quincy Jones bossa type arrangement). When the saxes come in - it's not a long enough clip to make much comment about other than the section is a little hot in the mix. I think that can be adjusted fine by tweaking. Therefore, no real critique on the bossa horns based off of this clip. My main problem (previous video) was with woodwinds together. With this video, the flute/trumpet sounds fine at least out of my laptop speakers.

... skipping past the other styles (guitar, Hawaiian, ... same list as before slightly different clips)
... glossing over repeated features from above video

"But wait, there's more" - which is where the video also covers more on the 49pak. The _ARVORES (bossa) guitar sounds great in this clip. _NAYARIT mariachi may have been something another user was looking for. _PAYOLA is interesting although not likely to utilize (swing jazz + congas) - we'll see. Again, initial feedback wasn't really focused on the 49pak since it wasn't 2017 "core".

I was very interested in the video https://youtu.be/d6Ru_aWsVIM which I reviewed as it was titled "Band-in-a-Box® 2017 for Windows - 202 New RealTracks Overview" and I was primarily interested in the RealTracks.

_GOGETER - back to the organ which is why I opted for the 49pak. here's a "main-line" 2017 style with a nice organ. Sounded Joey D. enough for me. _MITTENS - this is the one I have the previous feedback for. Listening to this through the laptop speakers now is certainly different. How the horns themselves sound is a difficult to hear on the laptop. However, the phrases of each part leave lots of holes where each part plays "on its own" for a few notes. Kind of weaves in/out each of the saxes. I can see maybe some counter melody - but it's a little bit overly independent. Perhaps like taking what would have been many more parts and just deleting parts here and there - so continuity is lost. At 4:19 that the Bari and a tenor or alto (hard to tell with the speakers) end up on the same note - and there are no other notes - is part of the "odd" choices of _MITTENS.

_FLAUTA is a little "all over the place" in the video 8:12-8:20 the messiest part. Comes together at 8:20.

Anyhow - previous post had feedback for this video specifically. Why I'm being steered NOT to use this video as a source is "strange". The previous feedback stands.

_ALLTHAT was interesting (dixieland instrumentation). Perhaps niche - but a good tool to have in the toolbox. Sounded fine.

For xtra styles, I took a look https://youtu.be/2dCDruCtaKk (Xtra Styles Pak 2)

I did appreciate how the styles in this video were categorized by genre and jazz started at 9:45

I wasn't focused on these for the previous commentary. But did, before deciding on what to purchase, review these. I found _BUENO.STY to be great. _COMMUTE is back to the organ theme I'm digging on. _COOLOFF is more in the funk category - but sounds good. _MODVIBE I thought was great. _ORLEANS was nice. _SILLIER was good. Kind of reminded me of the kind of scoring in the opening soundtracks of romantic comedies. _SPRING sounded good. The clip of _THEFAIR sounded odd - the trumpets. _UNDERDOG sounded OK using these speakers. I think there was enough interesting content here to add it to the "buy" list.

Went through the same exercise with the Xtra Pak 1 https://youtu.be/-7aJCe4-0x0

Technically, this was an add-on for 2016. However, I hadn't added it to my 2016 content before. With the "bundle" option, I thought it'd be good to maybe get this pak now.

4:30 starts the jazz styles. _BIGJAZZ, _LASEINE sound good. The video was a more abbreviated summary, so I just glanced over the more full list on the webpage (didn't review the style audio demo clips) and determined there was enough content there to justify adding it as a bundled set (Xtra1+2).

Back on 2017 "core" I also checked out the mixer feature video https://youtu.be/-v-jCGUo0bc

Some interesting GUI-oriented improvements here. The Mute/Solo enhancements are interesting. Other improvements are welcome - some not used at all (piano key entry velocity), still welcome. No real specific realtrack audio demos in the video.

Jason,
Thanks for that detailed helpful review.
I'm sure others will find it helpful too.
Peter