I was hoping that 2017 would deal with the many really difficult problems that arise from multiple monitors. Multiple monitors is becoming a very common configuration, especially for people dealing with music technology. I have 3 monitors on the machine that runs BIAB. BIAB is the only app that seems to have severe problems with this, and it actually got a little worse with 2017. Typical problems include:
1) At startup, the app doesn't remember its prior coordinates, nor does it check to make sure that the coordinates it is using are sensible. It just starts on monitor one every time. For me, monitor 1 is not where I do my work. It is where I put the ash and trash I don't want to look at all the time.
2) So when I launch BIAB, I immediately have to drag it to another monitor. With any other app, you can drag to another monitor, then click Maximize and it will use the full screen. Not BIAB. Maximize is all screwed up. It only uses 2/3 of the width, and the vertical dimensions are off the bottom of the screen. So I have to carefully mouse that window to more-or-less use all the real estate.
3) But then if I do anything that opens another window, you have that same problem all over again. This especially bad with the style picker. It comes up three times too large with the top half of the page truncated. It takes 30 seconds of mousing to drag and stretch and crop to get that style picker into some sensible position.
4) Those problems all existed at 2016. With 2017, it is worse. Now if you want to edit the name of the song, for example, that pops up another window. But I have my BIAB app running on the second monitor and that text editing dialog come up on Monitor 1. That's crazy. It should come up on the monitor where the app is running, and right below the box that is being edited. For me, monitor 1 is set to a screen resolution that is barely legible because I use that monitor mainly for icons. So when I edit a BIAB title, I can't read the text in that popup window -- and you can't drag that window to a monitor with better resolution.
What will it take to get these things fixed? This is very closely related to the complaints about 64-bit. The generic issue is that the environment is evolving and BIAB seems to be trapped 10-15 year behind where the platform technology is today. BIAB is truly the only app I have that has any trouble with this.
I suspect the issue with #2 is that the "Maximize" button is somehow adopting the geometry for monitor 1, when it should be using the geometry for the monitor it is on. In my case, the geometries are wildly different. Monitors 2 and 3 are 1920x1280. Monitor 1 is (I think) 720 x 1280, rotated into portrait mode.
Regarding the parallel between multiple monitors and 64-bit support, I wasn't trying to imply they were similar efforts. I was just mentioning there is a challenge to keep software within the mainstream of the custom configurations.
I have just bought jbridge, which looks like an effective work-around. But from a marketing standpoint, three is something of a stigma attached to 32-bit apps today, fair or not.
Re: This is very closely related to the complaints about 64-bit.
Originally Posted By: PeterGannon
Well, also about 1/1000 of the work to implement. Like comparing fixing a doorbell to building a new house.
I did have a laugh when I read Peter's analogy. Yes, this is actually a very accurate statement. Making the application run native 64 is easy to request. While I look forward to it, I do understand the technical challenges that will be encountered. Implementing 64 bit will be demanding and challenging. Do not underestimate the enormity of this task. If there were a magic button, we'd have it by now, surely?
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
That's a good point that to my knowledge has never been raised here clearly. The developer is the only one who can estimate the enormity of the work needed, and now we have it.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
Another big step backwards on this problem with the new mixer code put in on the latest patch. With multiple monitors, that mixer jumps all over the place. If you stretch the box so you can see the controls inside, it jumps to the edge of the page. When you start playback it reverts to the smaller size and jumps to monitor #1. If you make any changes to panning or whatever, it may move to a different monitor.
Don't you guys have multiple monitors on your test systems? Most of the DAW users I know use multiple monitors these days. It is the NORMAL way to operated in the music tech world these days. I have some surplus VGA monitors I would gladly send you if it will help get these these problems fixed.
Another big step backwards on this problem with the new mixer code put in on the latest patch. With multiple monitors, that mixer jumps all over the place. If you stretch the box so you can see the controls inside, it jumps to the edge of the page. When you start playback it reverts to the smaller size and jumps to monitor #1. If you make any changes to panning or whatever, it may move to a different monitor.
Duh?
I use multiple monitors and yes it would be nice if BB started on monitor last used so I didn't jump in on first post.
But I don't see mixer behavior you mentioned unless I missed your point?
The mixer pops back to location and size inside (relative to) the parent BB window when I undock it or dock/undock/dock/undock.
Also when undocked it does NOT pop back to monitor #1 when I start playback.
However, IT DOES pop onto monitor #1 upper right hand corner if I select, while mixer is undocked, the MIXER's window "minimize/minus" ("-") button - which is annoying but....
Larry
Larry
Win10Pro,i9,64GB,2TBSSD+20TBHDDs,1080TI,BIAB'24,Scarlett18i8,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,Integra7,XV5080,QSR,SC-8850,SPLAT,FL21&others,Komp.14,IK suite&others, just a guitar player-AXE FX III &FM9T, FishmanTP, MIDIGuitar2, GK2/3'sw/GI20
However, IT DOES pop onto monitor #1 upper right hand corner if I select, while mixer is undocked, the MIXER's window "minimize/minus" ("-") button - which is annoying but....
The behavior on my system is almost random. It is not random, of course, but just so bizarre that it could not possibly have been tested by anybody using multiple monitors.
"Annoying" is a polite way of describing it, and I'll go with that. FWIW, the mixer is undocked for me every time I click on the mixer tab. Is there a way to not undock it?
There are other peculiar aspects of that new mixer code. On some songs if I solo a track during playback, it takes an extraordinary amount of time to take effect, and hoses the playback during that time. In this case, "extraordinary" means 30 seconds or more to mute all the non-soloed tracks. I never had that problem before this latest patch.
It seems like window redraw is happening far too frequently, and part of that redraw involves incorrectly resizing and relocating the window.
Most of the DAW users I know use multiple monitors these days. It is the NORMAL way to operated in the music tech world these days.
Pumps, you're making an incorrect assumption here and that is the average PGM customer is music tech savvy. They are far from that. Think of the classic old folks scenario where they can't program their VCR, barely know what a cell phone is and don't know 64 bit from 64 bottles of beer on the wall. Seriously.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not making fun or anything but Biab is advertised as a Band In A Box. Literally. ANYBODY with a basic computer simply loads it up, enters some chords and voila, instant band. And guess what? It does that.
I really love this program for lots of reasons and I agree with you it should come up quite a bit to compare to modern DAW software but you know, there are a whole lot of regular non tech savvy people here who could care less about all that. They're happy with the Coyote Wavetable for midi sound and really love the Real Tracks. Pick an RT style and go, that's it. No multiple monitors, no need for 64 anything, just KISS it.
It's a balancing act for PGM. They know obviously, better than I do what the split is between those regular folks and us power users who would appreciate all of that and it's up to them to allocate the resources. It looks like it's not that big of a deal to fix your monitor issue so that's good.
If you download https://screentogif.codeplex.com/ you can record a screen shot in animated gif format then upload it so they can see what it is doing. Set it @ 6 fps, do a quick recording to keep it 2meg or under to upload as an Attachment, if bigger to a dropbox.
Great idea Pipeline, but Users, if you do this, please include some text (no matter how brief) that describes: - What you did - What the program did - What you expected
That takes the guesswork out of decoding a GIF animation and trying to identify what went wrong, or exactly what didn't get delivered for the user.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
I do a lot of support work and have spent hours on the phone trying to explain what to do, since TeamViewer it's a 2min job, see ya later Jack. Just seeing is worth a 1000 words.
Pumps, you're making an incorrect assumption here and that is the average PGM customer is music tech savvy. They are far from that. Think of the classic old folks scenario where they can't program their VCR, barely know what a cell phone is and don't know 64 bit from 64 bottles of beer on the wall.
I don't consider having multiple monitors to be a high tech thing. For example, MANY non-savvy users who have laptops also run a second monitor. It is very easy to do and works as expected for -- well, for every application I have ever seen except for BIAB. It is as if PGMusic had to go out of their way to break this. I suppose the issue is the development framework they are using, which is probably pretty archaic.
I have shown a few examples. There is a photo pf my setup showing the three monitors.
GIF 1 shows peculiar behavior when the mixer auto resize is off.
GIF 2 shows even more peculiar behavior when auto resize is on.
There are just a couple of quick examples. The bizarre-ness goes way beyond these examples. It is pervasive throughout the program. The biggest time waster is the style picker. Every time O open the style picker, it takes me about 20 mouse clicks to get the window into view in a useful place.
I tried it but didn't have any problems the mixer stayed put. When I did use MultiMons I used UltraMon that gave a lot of control and put more buttons on the windows to send to or stretch across another monitor. There's a free one here you can try http://www.softpedia.com/get/Internet/Remote-Utils/Dual-Monitor-Tools.shtml
"Annoying" is a polite way of describing it, and I'll go with that. FWIW, the mixer is undocked for me every time I click on the mixer tab. Is there a way to not undock it?
If mixer is undocked - click on the usual CLOSE "X" or what looks like a "MAXIMIZE" NOT the "+" or "-" and it will then DOCK back into BIAB parent window - it will then stay there until you undock it. At least it does for me
Larry
Win10Pro,i9,64GB,2TBSSD+20TBHDDs,1080TI,BIAB'24,Scarlett18i8,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,Integra7,XV5080,QSR,SC-8850,SPLAT,FL21&others,Komp.14,IK suite&others, just a guitar player-AXE FX III &FM9T, FishmanTP, MIDIGuitar2, GK2/3'sw/GI20
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