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Obviously I was not commenting on whether or not you should stay in a relationship. But the way you described your ex-wives is probably why your attitude toward women was described as disgraceful.
Last edited by JohnJohnJohn; 01/08/17 03:27 PM.
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Great story Tony! As we say in sunny Ohio, keep on rock'n!
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@Eddie - Eddie, I've seen and heard The Easy Street Band on youtube - what a great band! Covers and originals! Westside Steve is a fabulous vocalist and he and Keirsten have a heavenly blend on their duets. The musicians are top notch. And so many players - live horns - gotta love it! You were certainly blessed to be a part of that one. I hope you're still playing the reunions. If I lived closer I'd be there and enjoying every minute of all that talent together. And I'm not from and never even lived in Ohio! 
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This certainly has become an interesting thread
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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This certainly has become an interesting thread It is indeed Herb. And there is still loads more to glean from it. I would love to hear from all sorts of different people. How about all those who contributed towards the Xtra Styles competition?
Last edited by JoanneCooper; 01/09/17 07:17 AM.
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I do understand one thing Eddie talks about and that is the lack of professionalism when doing local casual gigs. Everybody is older now and most of the bands I get called for don't rehearse. It's a case of yes everybody knows a lot of the tunes but we all know how many versions of these tunes there are. The original radio version? The album version? The famous concert version? Another artists version? This gets all mashed up on stage sometimes and used to drive me nuts because when I was doing this as a career I was in a Vegas show group that was rehearsed down to the nano second. Smooth, polished, perfect.
I simply had to get past that or I would stop gigging which is what Eddie has done. That's fine for him but it's not fine for me. I like gigging and will continue gigging until I can't do it any more and that's all there is to it.
One thing I will disagree with Eddie about is the simplicity of some 3 chord tunes. If all you do is listen with one ear and don't pay attention to what's really happening there you think a 10 year old can do it. Not so at all. Listen carefully to EXACTLY what those players are doing, how it's mixed and how it all fits together. Those so called simple, basic, "anyone can to it" tunes were recorded by the best players in the world. That's why so many cover bands doing that stuff suck so bad. Yes, they can get through those tunes but they're all lacking that polish that amateurs have no clue about.
Bob
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@Eddie - Eddie, I've seen and heard The Easy Street Band on youtube - what a great band! Covers and originals! Westside Steve is a fabulous vocalist and he and Keirsten have a heavenly blend on their duets. The musicians are top notch. And so many players - live horns - gotta love it! You were certainly blessed to be a part of that one. I hope you're still playing the reunions. If I lived closer I'd be there and enjoying every minute of all that talent together. And I'm not from and never even lived in Ohio! High praise. Thank you. Steve taught me much about entertaining during my few years with the band as it was waving goodbye. This past year was a rewarding experience because of some of the songs we did. Anything For Love was a lot of work but I loved playing it. If you look back in the history to when we did Livin' In America, complete with the Rocky intro, that was the most fun moment I ever had with that band. Playing only sax then. Since they I also play supporting keyboards. Thanks again.
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I do understand one thing Eddie talks about and that is the lack of professionalism when doing local casual gigs. Everybody is older now and most of the bands I get called for don't rehearse. VERY true! I won't tell any specifics because you never know who might stumble across this thread some day... but I've been burned by this. I was involved in a gig last summer for which I prepared like it was my job... for 2 months beforehand I woke up, ate breakfast, then rehearsed all day long in preparation for a gig. At the last minute, some other guys got added to the mix, and they showed up totally unprepared, even though we had agreed in advance what they needed to be prepared for. My name was on the program, so I didn't appreciate the fact that their lack of preparation reflected on me as the entertainment provider. One thing I will disagree with Eddie about is the simplicity of some 3 chord tunes. If all you do is listen with one ear and don't pay attention to what's really happening there you think a 10 year old can do it. Not so at all. Listen carefully to EXACTLY what those players are doing, how it's mixed and how it all fits together. Those so called simple, basic, "anyone can to it" tunes were recorded by the best players in the world. That's why so many cover bands doing that stuff suck so bad. Yes, they can get through those tunes but they're all lacking that polish that amateurs have no clue about.
Bob again, I totally agree. Listen to just about any local band playing STATESBORO BLUES, then listen to the Allman Brothers playing it. The difference between the pros and everybody else is their ability to make simplicity sound awesome.
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The difference between the pros and everybody else is their ability to make simplicity sound awesome. Love that Pat! KKJZ here in LA has been playing a lot of classic Ramsey Lewis lately, The In Crowd, Wade On The Water, Hang On Sloopy, etc. I tried to do those years ago and just couldn't make it work because they're so "simple" it was totally boring to me. Listening to them again now I really hear what he's doing. Basically it's standard R&B piano licks but every single time through those changes he does something just a little bit different and it grooves it's butt off. He throws in little licks at just the perfect time too. That takes an absolute master player to pull that off on those very simple tunes. I saw him do all those tunes live around 1969 and he tore up the place. Simple stuff, not particularly jazzy, not too technical. Too simple. It fools regular players like me into thinking that we can pull that off too. Yeah, good luck with that. In fact, here's The In Crowd: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c40gly7OG20Listen to this carefully, hear how he builds it up, takes it down, messes with the crowd all on one stinkin chord then finally comes back to the bridge then does it again but builds it to a bigger climax before taking it out. Bob
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[quote=Pat Marr]
VERY true! I won't tell any specifics because you never know who might stumble across this thread some day... but I've been burned by this. I was involved in a gig last summer for which I prepared like it was my job... for 2 months beforehand I woke up, ate breakfast, then rehearsed all day long in preparation for a gig. At the last minute, some other guys got added to the mix, and they showed up totally unprepared, even though we had agreed in advance what they needed to be prepared for. My name was on the program, so I didn't appreciate the fact that their lack of preparation reflected on me as the entertainment provider.
[quote]
Pat, I had a very similar experience. I was pulled out of music playing retirement by a dear friend. She wanted to put a band together for her church's social. Myself and another friend agreed. We practiced twice a week for about a month and got down enough songs for the gig. At the gig another church member saw that we didn't have a bass player and volunteered for the job. My friend said that would be great. It wasn't! All he knew was a Johnny Cash tonic fifth bass line in the key of A. We didn't do any songs in the key of A. We had three part harmony in Hotel California in the key of E with him playing tonic fifth in A. Talk about awful. I will never play out again............for anybody!
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Simplicity can be deceptive.
It's sometimes more difficult to get a simple tune to sound great than a complex one.
And I do know a number of jam bands that don't rehearse - and they sound like it.
Even if you are doing group improvisation, you need to have the groundwork done, and that takes rehearsal. You also need to learn to feel the other players in your band, so when doing group improv you support each other instead of just fight with each other.
I'm lucky that I'm in a duo with my wife.
When I met her, she was playing in a different band. Both our bands broke up and we ended up in a 5 piece band together. Plenty of personnel problems, much like the ones described in this thread. Leilani and I have very intense work ethics, so after the proverbial straw broke the camel's back, we decided to go duo. I bought an Atari/ST computer and some synths and started making my own backing tracks.
Thankfully I studied arranging in school.
Now we have no personnel problems, we work hard, and on stage we play hard, and we have fewer people to split the money up with.
There are disadvantages of course, but I think the advantages far outweigh them.
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Interesting stories!
I'm on a facebook musician group populated by the old musician crowd that was active in my hometown in the 70s. A while back somebody started a thread called WAR STORIES, and everybody told their gigging nightmare stories... it was one of the most entertaining threads I've ever been involved in on any forum.
Rather than hijacking this thread, I'm going to start a WAR STORIES thread... everybody is cordially invited to participate!
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After a brief try at coffee shops and book stores, it was apparent that few people wanted to be bothered by live music so my wife and I sat down and asked ourselves what do we want to say.
We both enjoy writing music but realized that Gospel allowed us to share the love of Christ through our songs. We only work with our local church but that still a great way to share and sometime you see a few folks that "Get It" and that's what it's all about for us. It's better to have one person understand the Gospel than a 1'000 that ignore you in another setting
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Back to original question (sort of) - I don't "make music" I do play music or at least what might be called music if you are generous. Also remember I play guitar (I just have a lot of other toys because I was in the 5% for a long time and could - now reduced to the 10%) so:
As a young man (OK, TEEN) it was for the obvious reasons but since this is a family site I'll let that be (plus back then I had hair and was not fat).
But now that I am older (OK OLD, balding, and fat), and also had been away from playing at all the middle ~25% of my life and away from all performing to this day - I do it now purely for the "zen" of playing (I'm great in my own mind).
However, when I get in "the groove" (which isn’t always) I get that same endorphin rush I use to get running (I was not always fat) so I play to chase that rush - just like a junkie.
That is the truth no more - no less.
Larry
Last edited by Larry Kehl; 01/10/17 05:43 PM. Reason: typos's and probably still have soem due to dsylxeia
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Larry,
I've had that same rush with both people that can read and those otherwise ..
including some who thought they could.
Having fun is indeed the best part.
Last edited by rharv; 01/10/17 01:46 PM.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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I love music...said that before... but I got started playing live because it was a more fun way to make money than working a 9-5.
Money for nothing and your chicks for free.... isn't that what someone else said about it?
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Thanks for the interesting responses everyone. It seems that everyone here does it for the joy of producing by their art. It is inside them and they have to. Notes also makes a living out of it and John draws a salary.
I suppose for me, I am a little like Charlie in that I don't need the money (but a little bit of fame might be nice :D). I am probably just letting everything bubble out of me (as Keith said) and who knows one day I might just win the lottery. And I guess all the things I am doing is just buying more lottery tickets.
When Don McLean was asked what the song "American Pie" meant he apparently replied that it meant that he never has to work again.
Yea, the love of the music is it for me from as far back as I can remember. It's certainly never been about money, although I have made some reasonably good money when I was doing pro gigs. I also love the technical aspects of recording; arranging, playing, tracking, mixing, and mastering. I was the only kid in my HS with a sound on sound reel-to-reel recorder back in the late 60's. These days if you're in it for the money, I'm afraid that part of it is pretty much over. The digital era makes it easy to record, but also easy to steal. When a band like Lady Antebellum gets 62 million plays on the web of "Need You Now" and only earns $1,200 in royalties, what chance do the rest of us have? I guess my "lotto ticket" goal now is to get someone "famous" to "cover" one of my songs. No money, but a lot of bragging rights, eh? 
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These days if you're in it for the money, I'm afraid that part of it is pretty much over. The digital era makes it easy to record, but also easy to steal. When a band like Lady Antebellum gets 62 million plays on the web of "Need You Now" and only earns $1,200 in royalties, what chance do the rest of us have? If any band should not complain about stealing, that band would be Lady Antebellum. Listen to this mashup. Lady A's stolen song As far as the $1200, everybody knows going in that they will make like .0004 cents per play on the web. I don't agree, but when you sign a contract for .0004 cents per play, you sign away any right to complain about the money. Pandora and all those services pay a ridiculous amount for plays. I think Matt Finley has his music on Pandora and may have input here. At the end of the day though, Pandora plays for a major touring act is just loose change found in the couch cushions. This has been here before, but you may not have seen it. Proof that there is not much new under the sun. 6 identical country song mashup
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These days if you're in it for the money, I'm afraid that part of it is pretty much over. The digital era makes it easy to record, but also easy to steal. When a band like Lady Antebellum gets 62 million plays on the web of "Need You Now" and only earns $1,200 in royalties, what chance do the rest of us have? If any band should not complain about stealing, that band would be Lady Antebellum. Listen to this mashup. Lady A's stolen song As far as the $1200, everybody knows going in that they will make like .0004 cents per play on the web. I don't agree, but when you sign a contract for .0004 cents per play, you sign away any right to complain about the money. Pandora and all those services pay a ridiculous amount for plays. I think Matt Finley has his music on Pandora and may have input here. At the end of the day though, Pandora plays for a major touring act is just loose change found in the couch cushions. This has been here before, but you may not have seen it. Proof that there is not much new under the sun. 6 identical country song mashup I didn't say Lady Antebellum was complaining about stealing, my point is that digital music is easily stolen however you define "stolen". The drop in overall music industry revenue testifies to that point. Kids particularly, IF they buy an album, share it with anyone who wants it. Thanks, Napster, for kicking that off for us. There's a whole generation of people who think music should be FREE. Anyway, I quit fighting that battle long ago. People steal music in one way or another, whether by outright copying or streaming rates so low that it might as well be free. And just because you KNOW they're screwing you doesn't justify the act. So basically I'm saying if you're in it for the money, good luck with that. As for the "mashup" reference, I had a friend who used to tell me, "Why do you bother, Bob? It's all been written!" Pretty much true in every genre. But we trudge on. I'd love to get a song covered, but I don't expect to be paid anything substantial IF it ever happens. Man, I hate the term (and the reality) but "It's a labor of love." Back in my entrepreneurial days when I owned a music store, and had just completed my first album, a lady walked in with her husband and announced "I love your new album so much I made eighteen copies for my family and friends." Her husband just stared out the window nervously. That album cost me $20k back when that was a lot of money. I'd NEVER do that again. I wanted to tell her "Well, it's people like you that insure that I'll probably never be able to afford to do another one." But I didn't. I just said "Thank you." and wrote it off to the general public's complete ignorance of the concept of intellectual property. I'm always reminded of a quote I once read regarding the music industry: "It's a great business, but a sad profession." Anyone who's been in the "biz" for any length of time has experienced a least a little of that. Carry on.
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"I love your new album so much I made eighteen copies for my family and friends." AND, as a bonus, she thought she was paying you a compliment. I don't think I would have had the restraint. I would have probably said "Well thanks. While you are here, why don't you steal 18 sets of guitar strings like you stole 18 CD sales?" The inclusion of the word "stolen" addresses that no while claim of theft was made by the band, stealing is hardly the word here. If anybody stole anything, Mr. Kelly stole that song from Alan Parsons. I can't believe there was not a lawsuit with the chord changes and most of the melody being a direct rip. But my point was that nobody stole anything. That's what online traffic pays.
Last edited by eddie1261; 01/11/17 09:11 AM.
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This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
Check out all the 202 New RealTracks (in sets 456-467)
And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.
You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
The 2025 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2025 49-PAK!
Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
- Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
- Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
- Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
- Playable RealTracks Set 4
- RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
- SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
- 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
- Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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