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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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EDIT - I see on my desktop Win 10x64 system (same build as on lappy), for Sonar (but not for BiaB), there is a WASAPI driver mode.
This is a snippet from another post on Ron's latency question that had me check my w10 biab settings
Can someone shed any light on BIAB and WASAPI drivers?
Thanks Wyndham
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I've been reading about WASAPI again. It uses something called Exclusive Mode and in my Win 10 under Sounds, it was checked by default. There is little on the web newer than the big articles about this in 2015 where Pete Brown from MS (who is also a musician and DAW user) made tons of comments. His last post that I could find was Gearslutz in July 2015. He's talking about hardware developers have to write new drivers to take advantage of the new WASAPI but no mention of DAW's. This is the newest blog post I could find under his username from Sept 2016 but it looks like word for word what he wrote in 2015: https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/50ty05/improved_audio_in_windows_10/I also searched for DAW's that are configured to use WASAPI and found a bunch of them but no mention as to is that needed or not? I also found posts saying WDM is WASAPI just like MME is WDM. Since I have Studio One I checked it's config window and when I selected Windows Audio and go to the Control Panel for it I see a checkbox for Exclusive Mode and a slider for latency, it's set at 40ms as the default. Since Exclusive Mode is already set in Win 10 is that necessary to have in a DAW's config? I tested this in RB: In the Audio config window see Output Buffers. On my system the default is 2000. According to Help for that window that's supposed to be a two second delay but from what I can tell it's about a half second for both the notes displaying on the piano display using a midi file and the time my spacebar starts or stops playback. This is using a bluetooth QWERTY keyboard which has some delay as well. I took that all the way down to 30ms (tried 20 but a yellow box popped up saying that was out of range, the minimum is 30). RB played a 7 track midi file using ST3 along with 4 audio tracks without a glitch AND the notes displaying on the piano bar as well as my spacebar start/stop seems almost instantaneous. Sounds to me like RB using Win 10's new WASAPI. Still, 30ms is not good enough for live playing of a softsynth plugin but it's a pretty major improvement anyway compared to WDM under Win 7. At least I can see what's happening on the screen with no visual delay. I'm hardly an expert on this and my impressions could be wrong. Maybe Biab and RB do need a separate WASAPI driver but it doesn't seem like it. Getting 30-40 ms latency sounds about right based on what I read in those articles by Pete Brown. WASAPI is better but still not as good as ASIO. Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Bob, based on what I have read your impressions of WASAPI are spot on. Native ASIO drivers are still the best for recording.
Principal: Your child always causes trouble in school.
Me: My child causes trouble at home, do I ever call you?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Thanks for the information. I had setup an old midi kb and noticed the latency in all the different daws from reaper to Sonar and BIAB. I'm sure the 20yr kb was the main issue but looking at getting a new Yamaha made me want to find the best driver settings for some home midi recording
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Thanks for the information. I had setup an old midi kb and noticed the latency in all the different daws from reaper to Sonar and BIAB. I'm sure the 20yr kb was the main issue but looking at getting a new Yamaha made me want to find the best driver settings for some home midi recording FWIW - It is probably not your keyboard. JonD was using his late dad's 35 year old Yamaha keyboard using my Roland Octa-Capture with the latest ASIO drivers with no problems. He has a couple more very old, as far as electronic keyboards go, keyboards that he records on an old XP computer with a Creative audio interface using ASIO drivers with no problems either.
Principal: Your child always causes trouble in school.
Me: My child causes trouble at home, do I ever call you?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Right, latency has zero to do with your midi input device whether a keyboard, guitar or wind midi controller. It's all about the software driver that comes with your hardware. If it's an old keyboard then the keyboard itself won't have a dedicated driver, it's being plugged into a midi interface. It's that midi interface that has the driver you need to select. Just make sure it's an ASIO driver. If your interface doesn't have one, that means it's pretty old too so you can try the freebie ASIO4ALL. If that doesn't work then it's time for some hardware upgrades.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Definitely not the KB, I'm running a 35 year old Yammi DX7 FDII, mostly use it as a controller for my rack mounted synths through a midi patch bay using 5 pin DIN midi cables. No issues.
Jeff
Win11, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2026, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive3 Extreme, Kontakt 6, SampleTank 4.3
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
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Bob,
Thanks for the helpful information. Currently BiaB and RB are using MME or ASIO (not WASAPI yet). It's great that you were able to get 30ms latency without ASIO.
We do plan on implementing windows audio in some form.
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Journeyman
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Bob,
Thanks for the helpful information. Currently BiaB and RB are using MME or ASIO (not WASAPI yet). It's great that you were able to get 30ms latency without ASIO.
We do plan on implementing windows audio in some form. ^^^ This for sure! Hoepfully it will get out of the planning stage and into development ASAP! Would men folks would not have to drag around a separate AUDIO interface. WASAPI works really well with Sonar, speaking from my own experience. And latency achieved can be as low as 9ms. More than enough for live play!
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