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Ok there isn't a weak that goes by that I don't hear many demos of singers, or instrumentalists. The problem I'm seeing is with recording gear becoming so affordable and powerful that you can do so many things in a small studio or even a spare bedroom or basement. Some of it takes your breathe away. Some of it kicks in your gag reflex!  Please understand, I am ALL FOR the hobbyist and person who plays just for fun/pure enjoyment. I'm that is SO many things. The issue I'm having (and I'm sure it's not just me by any means) is the number of people who truly believe they are pro...and are nowhere close. I mean REALLY far away from pro...but argue or insult you when "they want the truth." I'm tactful, I promise I am. I swear there are many delusional people out there! I feel much of it is the results of well meaning people they surround themselves with, who either don't know different, or are "being nice." I mean, some of the singers have sent me things they put on youtube and I am shocked at how bad they are...AND equally shocked by the comments. "wow! you have a great voice!" or "you seriously need to be on the radio!" or "Better than the original!" Really? It's not a problem overall, but I know of someone moving to Nashville because of this. He will get eaten alive and spend a lot of money doing it. It's not my problem, I get that. I just feel bad. Not trying to come across as a "know it all." I'm so far from knowing it all it's hilarious. But I also don't think I do. How do you all handle it? I'm just curious. Again, you don't have to be pro to enjoy making music...and I don't mean it that way in the least.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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<<< How do you all handle it? I'm just curious. >>>
Think of someone you respect, admire and maybe at some time provided you with constructive criticism that though you were being criticized of something you were emotionally attached to, the criticism did not deflate your enthusiasm or discourage you from continuing on.
Every time in the future when you are facing a circumstance with someone where you are offering constructive criticism, ask yourself what would that person who once (or many times) provided criticism to you without deflating your enthusiasm or discouraging you, and emulate them in your reply.
My late brother was the best I've ever seen in replying to "what do you think about this?" type of musical questions. I always try to paraphrase how I think he would answer.
Charlie
BIAB 2025:RB 2025, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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If the person asks "what do you think of this", "constructive criticism welcomed" or something like that then you should give them a honest answer in a nice way IMHO. Don't say you suck as a singer but say I thought you were a little flat in the chorus so maybe you should get some pitch correction software and check it out. If they get pissed then just ignore them.
Some people only want praise and get mad if they are told they are not good enough to make it, yet. While some actually want to learn. But you can't tell the difference on the Internet.
If you put songs up on the Internet, even in our showcase, you better have thick skin. Some people don't and will defend their performance whether it is good or bad! Be prepared for that when criticizing their songs.
I am a hobbyist and I am still learning. You all should know by now that my songs are always open for constructive criticism.
The fitness trainer asked me, "What kind of a squat are you accustomed to doing?" I said, "Diddly."
64 bit Win 11 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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eddie1261
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As one who is not a strong singer but did my own singing anyway (or it really wouldn't have been MY album) I expected a LOT of bullet holes as people listened, but those who commented were kind and for the most part positive. I have been on the other end of that where people say "and be honest with me" and some times it was so bad I ran out of noncommittal ways to say "suck", but I would just say "Keep working at it. You can never stop improving." And here is where those words came from.
There was a guy here, Phil Palumbo, that passed away what seems like forever ago. He was a great sax player and an even better showman. I happened to be out where he was playing and some kid sax player asked to sit in. They did some old tune (Perdido, maybe). And honestly this kid stunk the place out, but Phil, with all his grace and tact, let him know gently that he needed to keep at it. He said something close to "You have some good roots there. Now just keep working at it." Phil lived in a very positive place where he always thought that there was no value in spreading negative energy. I never once heard him be anything but positive and encouraging to young players. One by one his old players are joining him in jazz heaven, one of whom was one my favorite profs in college who passed in 2016.
Any creative field requires that the artist be willing to accept criticism.
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Junior Samples ( Hee Haw ) summed it up perfectly when he told Lulu Roman: "For a fat lady, you don't smell so bad!"
That has become my mantra. If I can't be up-building and encouraging, then I keep my comments to myself.
Donny
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PG Music Staff
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The issue I'm having (and I'm sure it's not just me by any means) is the number of people who truly believe they are pro...and are nowhere close. I mean REALLY far away from pro...but argue or insult you when "they want the truth." I'm tactful, I promise I am. I swear there are many delusional people out there!
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My experience is not what you describe above. Most people are reasonable, and don't "argue or insult you when they want the truth"
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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The issue I'm having (and I'm sure it's not just me by any means) is the number of people who truly believe they are pro...and are nowhere close. I mean REALLY far away from pro...but argue or insult you when "they want the truth." I'm tactful, I promise I am. I swear there are many delusional people out there!
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My experience is not what you describe above. Most people are reasonable, and don't "argue or insult you when they want the truth" So true, Peter. The other end of the spectrum are those who offer advice to artists who are light years ahead of them in talent, experience and musicology. Donny
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Ok there isn't a weak that goes by that I don't hear many demos of singers, or instrumentalists.
The issue I'm having (and I'm sure it's not just me by any means) is the number of people who truly believe they are pro...and are nowhere close. I mean REALLY far away from pro...but argue or insult you when "they want the truth." I'm tactful, I promise I am. I swear there are many delusional people out there! I totally agree with all of your above observations. Just because we've written something with sincerity and it took a long time to finish doesn't mean it has any appeal (for whatever reason) to the masses. Since I've been here, I may have commented on a 1/2 dozen songs in the Showcase forum because I thought they were good vocals, well recorded and with interesting lyrics/subject. If it doesn't stand out with those criteria (from my perspective) I just don't say anything. (of course, genre preference would play a role too) I have no desire to insult anyone with what one may call brutal honesty anyway. Plus, I'm a nobody in the music world. It means little to me what my family members think of my work....family members will always tell you 'it's a great song'. It's opinions from peers, those better than myself and those that are outside of my personal social orbit that have much more critically objective merit. I said it before.... if anyone puts there material on the internet for public commentary/critiquing one must have the skin of a snow tire. All comments should be accepted if one asked for them. Me...I have (4) BIAB songs but have not solicited any comments of them on this forum that I recall. If I did want opinions from this respectful group it would be specific questions only...'what do you think of my mix on this one, is the sax stepping on the vocals, is the bass too loud'. I would never ask 'what do you think of this song?' Why?...because I would not ever expect anyone to actually like the song generally speaking. But, the academic/mixing help here would be invaluable to fine tune a song. That's my take on it....I did try to be brief. Carry on... (Oh...I am finishing my 5th BIAB'er now...maybe I'll get brave and solicit for something :))
Last edited by chulaivet1966; 01/25/17 10:53 AM.
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Maybe I, unintentionally, gave the impression that I feel that's the majority of people. I don't think that.  I probably get pitched 15-30 demos a week from people. Of that, I would say maybe 20% are pro, or close. That means 80% of them are not. Of the non-pros, most are very gracious. Some are looking for suggestions, some are not. They are simply pitching and thankful for a listen. Then there is the not so silent minority of (guessing) 3-5 people who feel the need to flat our tell me "I'm wrong, or don't know what I'm talking about...I'm going to make it big, Walt Disney...blah, blah, blah. You don't know what you just passed up!" kind of responses. Here is the thing. If I'm not interested I simply write back. "You've obviously put work into this and I thank you for considering me. It's flattering to be honest! Be determined and be willing to improve where you can...that combination is hard to beat. If there is anything I can do to help, feel free to ask. Best of luck to you. We are all in this together! " I'm thinking of leaving the "If there is anything..." that seems to spark the questions of what they could do differently. The reason I'm bringing any of this up is, it seems (for me) to have worsened with the increase of internet and social media usage. Perhaps it's just more people can do things easier, so they do. But opinions via email, or anything electronic don't seem to be in short supply I hope that states me position a bit more. Combine that over 20 plus years of doing this, and maybe I'm way off base. On the flip side of that coin, it's also opened up the doors to some incredible talent for me. So don't think I'm all "it's the worst thing ever!" Not by a LONG shot. "Ya take the good, you take the bad..."
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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"I probably get pitched 15-30 demos a week from people."
So, you're an A&R guy?
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"I probably get pitched 15-30 demos a week from people."
So, you're an A&R guy? No. It's not demos of songs for me to consider. It's demos of them singing or playing an instrument for me to consider using their talent for jingles. Prior to the internet really catching on (I'm dating myself here) I got maybe 1 or 2 total a week. I know there were even weeks I didn't get any at all.
Last edited by HearToLearn; 01/25/17 08:49 AM.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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I think the best anyone can do is to say whether or not they like something.
Once you start to say something is good or bad, you're setting yourself up as an arbiter of style and that way lies danger.
Think how many famous acts were initially turned down by someone who thought they were bad.
ROG.
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That's a great point ROG. And I would add that it is possible to "damn with faint praise" also. Typically one can find something about a production (if asked to look at the entire effort) to comment on while ignoring the rest Of course if you are specifically asked to, for example, comment on a vocal there is little wiggle ground left. But even a pitchy vocal can have creative phrasing, etc., if one can listen to off key singing -- I can't. Bud
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos are here on our website.
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...Since I've been here, I may have commented on a 1/2 dozen songs in the Showcase forum because I thought they were good vocals, well recorded and with interesting lyrics/subject.
Six songs? Peter Gannon just noted today that there's been 5,000 plus songs posted. From our perspective since 2011 we have listened to many, many songs of multiple genres that meet that criteria. The users range from music newbies to folks who have been deep into the industry from the perspective of writing, performing and production. Having gotten to know some of the users I'm overwhelmed at the breadth of talent. Just an ole phart's two cents worth! Bud
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos are here on our website.
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Joe Meek passed on the Beatles, telling Brian Epstein that they were "just another bunch of noise; copying other people's music". It was reported that he put his fingers in his ears and ran into a studio where Rod Stewart was singing and screamed until Stewart left. He ran David Bowie out of his studio as well. Proof that even the best and the brightest don't always recognize talent when it presents itself.
Keith
2025 Audiophile Windows 11 RYZEN THREADRIPPER 3960X 4.5GHZ 128 GB RAM 2 Nvidia RTX 3090s, Vegas,Acid,SoundForge,Izotope Production,Melodyne Studio,SONAR,3 Raven Mtis
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So - if its the best i can do as a rank AMATEUR i shoulnt post until its been polished,processed and mastered for fear of offense? Showcase is for those that CAN, not those that would like to aspire and look for guidance-is that it?
Ive been amazed at the top quality of some of the posts on here and havent dared reply for fear of embarassing myself by my lack of knowledge.
Maybe a Like button at the top of th song post so I can click it to show i heard it and liked it?
WendyM
BiaB2022PLUS,927. every extras pack I can find ;-),Sonar7XL,Win 10
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Six songs? Peter Gannon just noted today that there's been 5,000 plus songs posted. From our perspective since 2011 we have listened to many, many songs of multiple genres that meet that criteria. The users range from music newbies to folks who have been deep into the industry from the perspective of writing, performing and production. Having gotten to know some of the users I'm overwhelmed at the breadth of talent. Just an ole phart's two cents worth! Bud I totally agree there's a boatload of talent here in various genres. I've easily listened to a couple hundred songs from the Showcase but I don't always comment. Keith....very good points! WendyM....to me, the showcase is for everyone at any level. It's about encouraging all to continue writing and reveal how great a program BIAB truly is. Hmmm....that 'like button' might be a good idea for them to ponder. Carry on...
Last edited by chulaivet1966; 01/25/17 10:46 AM.
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I didn't intend to imply that I won't offer snippets of advice when asked but I won't say anything negative on a public forum. A private conversation is generally preferred and only when I determine that the artist is able to handle criticism.
I'm working with an Irish singer/songwriter currently and told her that she was too "breathy" and that nearly crushed her. How will she survive the criticism of a studio producer when big Loonies are being burned for studio time?
Donny
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Joe Meek passed on the Beatles, telling Brian Epstein that they were "just another bunch of noise; copying other people's music". It was reported that he put his fingers in his ears and ran into a studio where Rod Stewart was singing and screamed until Stewart left. He ran David Bowie out of his studio as well. Proof that even the best and the brightest don't always recognize talent when it presents itself. Agreed. But here's the thing. I feel that was more his personal opinion. Although he may not of liked their style, they did have good timing, pitch and...more subjective, tone. It would be hard to convince me that someone who is tone def, and has really terrible timing is all that desirable to the masses...and that's who I have to market to. I would post examples, but I really don't think that would be fair, nice, or professional.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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So - if its the best i can do as a rank AMATEUR i shoulnt post until its been polished,processed and mastered for fear of offense? Showcase is for those that CAN, not those that would like to aspire and look for guidance-is that it?
Ive been amazed at the top quality of some of the posts on here and havent dared reply for fear of embarassing myself by my lack of knowledge.
Maybe a Like button at the top of th song post so I can click it to show i heard it and liked it?
WendyM
Um..I'm not sure who is saying any of that? To be clear, I sure wasn't. My intent with this topic had NOTHING to do with the showcase what-so-ever. Personally, I love the showcase, and love to watch people develop! To me, it's one of the coolest things to witness!
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
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- Playable RealTracks Set 4
- RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
- SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
- 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
- Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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