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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2003
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Thanks Bob for the input
........
As mentioned: I really do think this should NOT have stopped the volume slider from doing anything at all. Why couldn't the volume slider for the track change the volume on channel 8 & 9? After all, they are just 2 channels on the same 'Track'.
Trev Trev here is my opinion based on a similar situation on my DAW. There were two volume controls trying to control the gain of one track. It doesn't matter what channel or channels are involved it is still only one track. So the software sees the first channel's volume control then ignores the rest. If it didn't there would be constant fighting between the two volume controls and the track would use both, causing the volume to jump all over the place. For both volume controls to work all of channel 8's data should be on one track and channel 9's data on another track. By data I mean notes, volume and whatever else was used in the channels. This is just my opinion and if it is wrong would someone please explain the real reason to me.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jun 2005
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Since you're saying this isn't an original MacKenzie midi file but another user, the file itself could still be messed up. As I said earlier I have some files in a test folder going back years that I'll play with from time to time just for fun. Or more aggravation, ha. So far no matter what I do they simply will not play correctly and I don't know why. I did the same thing you did, I put them in RB and used every trick I know to manipulate them and got squat.
I was thinking it could be the synth but you initially said you're using the Forte Dxi and we all know it responds to the volume slider just fine. It's some of the other synths like Garritan or Sampletank that don't.
I dunno boss, I would usually ask you about something like this not the other way around...
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jun 2012
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Hi Bob
Re: "Since you're saying this isn't an original MacKenzie midi file but another user". There might be some confusion. I'm very sure this is a Doug McKenzie file, but I think he produced it from the Nord output, not BiaB output.
What is confusing with BiaB is that the VU meter level in the Mixer reacts with the notes in the music perfectly. If I lower the volume, the VU meter level also visibly lowers. If I raise it, the VU meter level increases. But the entire time, the output volume never changes.
The way I see it is that whatever is on that track should change. I compare this to mixing desk where the sound engineer has two separate audio sources connected to one track. Just because there are two inputs shouldn't mean that the mixer volume cannot be adjusted. After all it is controlling the audio level of downstream equipment, not the upstream source.
And the BiaB VU meter does change, indicating that it is recognizing the adjustment somehow.
Anyway, I know how to resolve now. And I definitely agree that MIDI can be troublesome, especially with the virtually unlimited variations in file content.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
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I dunno boss, I would usually ask you about something like this not the other way around... I'm going to use this tomorrow .. some way, some how /thanks
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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The file may have used two midi channels to independently record left hand and right hand playing.
Midi files with each hand on a different channel use to be common. It is easier to step sequence and correct playing mistakes during file creation. During playback the hardware does not need to play as many notes at one time and the voicing can be set up differently between the two hands to enhance the audio performance.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jun 2012
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OP
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Good point Jim, and I did expect that was the case, however, when I studied the data, this did not make sense as there was no clear separation. The same notes appeared sometimes on channel 8 and sometimes on channel 9.
And I'm sure this wasn't step sequenced, because there is a video of the performer playing this live.
Very strange.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2015
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Expert
Joined: Dec 2015
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Hi
Just a final thought on this one.
Some midi files and daws use automation tracks to control fade in and out by controlling the mixer.
So let’s say you had a piano on track 8 ch 8 track volume 64
Automation for that could be on track 9 it would have to be ch 8 to control the same piano.
Now if some had used cc7 volume events instead of cc11 expression, to make a fade up to say 100 that is what the piano would play at, .its last received value for that channel.
Cc7 is a continuous controller that is the last value sent holds until it gets a new one.
However the tracks are read in order the high number being the last read is the last value sent to the channel
In this case what ever you sent to track 8 would be overwritten by the info on track 9 which has sent a volume vale of 100 in this example
Don’t want to muddy the water but worth a thought
Best regards
Mike
BIAB2021 UltraPlus,AsusN55S1Tbssd, W10/64,Akai EIEpro Yamaha CVP405,SquireStrat, CoolsoftVMidSynth Novatation Impulse61 Ctr kbd, Cwalk blab Kontakt http://mikesmusic.byethost16.com/
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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That would explain it, except as mentioned there were absolutely no CC messages in the file. Changing the channel 9 data to channel 8 resolved the problem.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,114
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Dec 2015
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Hi
Yes I see. in that case track9 must have sent a volume level to ch 8 in the header information that you cant see .
You only see cc sent to a tracks later , you can not see the opening value in the header except that it sets the initial value for that track / channel
Just another thought,
Mike
BIAB2021 UltraPlus,AsusN55S1Tbssd, W10/64,Akai EIEpro Yamaha CVP405,SquireStrat, CoolsoftVMidSynth Novatation Impulse61 Ctr kbd, Cwalk blab Kontakt http://mikesmusic.byethost16.com/
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 201
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Apprentice
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 201 |
I just popped in here to ask a similar question, but in RealBand. I couldn't find how to lower a MIDI Supertrack volume in the Mixer or Tracks windows. For anyone that it might help, I hit the 'fx' button, got into the synth controls and used the 'trim' button as the volume control, which worked well. Feel free to tell me an alternative control! Thanks.
Best, Warren
Warren A. Keller- Woodwindist/Producer
Spontaneous Groovin' Combustion
Tune 9 Music- SESAC
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