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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzXsGmFeRqULarry PS do not blow him off too fast (if you don't know anything about him you may want to google him first).
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I tend to say the tone is all in your hands...and for the most part it is.... BUT.... some of the guitars ... the cheap ones.... are really really bad. No amount of hand technique will bail you out of that toneless mess.
I bought a cheap guitar at a yard sale and took it to a gig that night after restringing it. Instant feedback at any thing over 5 on the guitar volume. I sold it that same night to the sound guy for the $20 I gave for it.
But yeah, there are great guitars with no brand name that sound good, play smoothly and are a great deal financially.
MY "Fender Tele" is a MIC version. Way cheaper than a MIA Fender.
Same goes for amps and other gear. Some old vintage amps made by "off brand" companies, sound really sweet. I've had several that I owned and sold for various reasons, through the years.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 02/19/17 04:16 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Cool video. Thanks Larry. I love cheap guitars!  Regards, Bob
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Herb, I agree with you. There is a big difference between cheap and inexpensive guitars. One can buy very good inexpensive guitars from Rondo Music http://www.rondomusic.com/ , Guitar Fetish http://www.guitarfetish.com/ and others. During my years of teaching I saw a lot of cheap guitars from Walmart, K-Mart, etc. From those observations I would say about 20% of those guitars are playable right out of the box while the rest needed work, sometimes at a very high cost, to get it in playable condition. Even then they sounded very tinny.
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During my years of teaching I saw a lot of cheap guitars from Walmart, K-Mart, etc. From those observations I would say about 20% of those guitars are playable right out of the box while the rest needed work, sometimes at a very high cost, to get it in playable condition. Even then they sounded very tinny. So....it seems it's a roll of the dice unless one has very seasoned knowledge and experience to find a a worthy diamond in the ruff. I don't think I'd be very good at it. I bought a tele back in 1979 but I could never afford/justify a Fender back then...probably not now either, for that matter.  So...I bought an Ibanez Tele Silver Series (1977 for 275$) from our lead player when our band was regrouping. I had pickups replaced in 1993 and it's still a damn fine axe to play...it's the one in my avatar. Anyway....the video was interesting....thanks. Carry on....
Last edited by chulaivet1966; 02/19/17 11:24 AM.
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Sears use to purchase their guitars and amplifiers from top of the line off brand manufacturers like Kay, Harmony and Danelectro. You could purchase some really good instruments from Sears in the sixties.
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Like Gino I also have an actual 60's ('68) ES-335, except being older than him I actually bought mine new in the 60's However, that vid is making me want to pull trigger on an Epi Limited Edition ES-335 Pro (turns out they are on sale for $379 right now, I can't find them anywhere for $350 but it's now a few years after that video so...) I think I might also put a trapeze on mine as well (my '68 has trapeze) - WTH Larry PS Wife will be mad since her birthday is in a few days and all she's getting is a card! 
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Music Radar recently posted reviews of 35 electric guitars under $500 http://www.musicradar.com/news/guitars/33-of-the-best-budget-electric-guitars-in-the-world-today-586459Last December I got a new Yamaha Pacifica PAC212VQM for under $400. I have some very nice double humbucker guitars but never had a Stratocaster style guitar. So, I picked up one of these as my first strat style guitar to give it a whirl. I've been playing it almost every day since and compared to my $2,200 USA made Schecter Custom Shop and my post law suit (1984 Matsumoku) Vantage Les Paul I think it's in the same category. Other than being made in Indonesia I don't see why they couldn't sell these for $900 - $1,200. I'm not going to do full review right here but I can't see any reason to upgrade or change anything except for I immediately replaced the nut with a Graph Tech TUSQ XL. But that's so I can do pitch bends at the headstock. BTW, I strongly agree that it's in the fingers. It's not 100% all in the fingers though. You can play with your teeth when your fingers get sore.
Last edited by Tobias; 02/19/17 06:59 PM.
Does the noise in your head bother me ?
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You can play with your teeth when your fingers get sore. Now that's dedication!
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Sears use to purchase their guitars and amplifiers from top of the line off brand manufacturers like Kay, Harmony and Danelectro. You could purchase some really good instruments from Sears in the sixties.
I don't, and would not refer to Kay, Harmony, and Danelectro as "top of the line" guitars. Off brand certainly, marginal beginner's guitars*, but no where close to TOTL. I had a Harmony guitar before I purchased my Gibson, so I know first hand about them. Moving from the Harmony to the Gibson, I could not believe how much easier the Gibson was to play and how much better it sounded. I had a Harmony guitar as a teen. It was the second guitar I owned. The first one was a Woolworth's $25 guitar. After playing with it for a year, I convinced my mom I needed a better guitar and I had my eye on a new shiny Harmony with a $99 price tag in a music store. I got that guitar for my birthday as I recall. While it was better than the Woolworth guitar, a few years later I bought my Gibson SG from a fellow for a couple hundred bucks. Around 1971 or so. The Gibson made the Harmony sound and play like a piece of junk. Seriously, there is no comparison to a good quality, well made guitar like a Gibson or a Fender. A friend had a solid state Silvertone amp. I believe that was a Sears brand at the time. Like any bunch of kids in the 60's trying to get a "band" together..... we used that amp for the whole band....and PA. 2 channels and 2 inputs on each.... 2 guitars, one bass, and a high impedance mic. We were in high cotton as the saying goes. * when people ask me to recommend a guitar for their kid who is wanting to learn to play guitar, I always recommend buying a good quality, perhaps a second hand name brand guitar. Fender, Gibson, Ibanez, Ovation, Martin, Taylor etc.... I recommend these brands because they are well made and therefore, sound better, are easier to play, and if the kid decides 6 months later it's not his/her thing, the guitar can be resold for the initial investment cost, especially if it was bought at a discount second hand and it's still in good condition.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 02/20/17 04:11 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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That used to be the case, but not anymore. I was shopping for a new 335, so I went to Guitar Satan to check one out. The fretwork, binding, glue, and overall workmanship was horrible. For $3K. I bought an Ibanez 335 copy for $350. Got it setup by a luthier and it plays like a dream. And, I don't have to insure it! Regards, Bob
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I own an Epiphone ES-339 Pro that I got in a trade. A real sweet guitar, well made, and with the coil tapping I can get a variety of great tones. I'm currently thinking of putting a Bigsby on it.
Frank
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I'd recommend checking out D'Angelico for some really nice copies of some of the classic archtops: http://dangelicoguitars.com/guitars/
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* when people ask me to recommend a guitar for their kid who is wanting to learn to play guitar, I always recommend buying a good quality, perhaps a second hand name brand guitar. Fender, Gibson, Ibanez, Ovation, Martin, Taylor etc.... I recommend these brands because they are well made and therefore, sound better, are easier to play, and if the kid decides 6 months later it's not his/her thing, the guitar can be resold for the initial investment cost, especially if it was bought at a discount second hand and it's still in good condition.
Your comment is actually the reason I posted that link. A while back we already had this age old discussion about whether parents (teachers) should buy (recommend) high-end guitars, be they electric or acoustic, or inexpensive (I do NOT mean cheap and crappy) - for a beginner (who may or may not stick with it). I was, and am, in the "go to store, pawn shop, where ever and see if it felt OK, action wise, and go INEXPENSIVE, maybe even no name." YES, the play-ability NEEDS TO BE determined by an experienced player/teacher (NOT the store sales person) remember that experienced player isn't looking for a shredders's holy grail action set-up anyway (I hope). Why have parents lay down a fortune on a crap shoot (how many homes have/had pianos that never got played?)- besides my experience is most kids have the attention span of gnat. That aside, how does the above work? 1. Second-hand bargains aside, if a parent can sell a guitar, say 6 months later, for (essentially) the initial investment who's buying them? Who is dumb enough to buy a, now used, $1k or more guitar for an almost new price? I know I wouldn't, would you? If the asking price is essentially the same as the "go buy it new" price - I may as well "go buy it new" minus all the kid abuse. Unlike Gino's sentiment in that video, I both like that new guitar (and car) smell and I hate playing someone else's broke-in fretboard - LOL. Also that brings up the whole "if they are getting essentially their initial investment back" where do these other great "bargains" (these great, but inexpensive, second hand guitars) come from? In last decade or so, with rise of internet, eBay, Music-Go-Round, Amazon, MF, and other places that can instantly check market prices it's not been my experience to walk into ANY pawn shop or second-hand store in the scores states, and many more scores of cities, my job took me to and find much in way of "bargains." Yes, I still find second-hand bargains but nothing like I use to be able to find before rise of the internet - and savings are sometimes so small on those that I simply OPT for new. And it's not just guitars, its everything: amps, firearms, electronics,... 2. I also have never bought into the logic of buying "brand names" because they are (or might be) easier to play. If ease of playing were the driving concern I would never, ever, start a student on a large box Martin, Taylor, Gibson, or other acoustic with their std. 12's or 13's (I don’t care how low the action)! I'd start them on smaller body Tele's, Strat's, SG's, etc. with ultra low actions, set-up with .08's (and tuned down a half-step)! It don’t get no easier on those poor little fingers! I'm from the dark ages - I'd start them on inexpensive WIDE NECK classical's with SHEET MUSIC and an big a$$ metronome: WORK THOSE FINGERS and those little underdeveloped brains! I wonder why I have ZERO students? Larry
Last edited by Larry Kehl; 02/20/17 12:25 PM.
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Good points Larry
Yeah, pawnshop prices on junk is pretty high. I'm guessing they count on the uninformed buyer with cash and itchy fingers and dreams of stardom, to buy the junk at inflated prices. Any brand names on the rack, regardless of condition, will be even higher. The days of finding a vintage Fender or Gibson for a few hundred dollars in some dusty pawnshop where the owner doesn't know what he has on his wall are gone.
However, since you know they bought really low, showing some cash and being serious about the deal can often get you a decent bargain. I've never bought from a pawnshop because I didn't want anything I saw on the wall bad enough.
Generally speaking, the brand names are built better and therefore can usually be setup to play smooth as silk. Of course, there are those lemons in the bunch and exceptions to the group. But the owners of the stores aren't stupid and know that the brand names are quality guitars so they jack the prices. And no doubt create stories on the background history..... "this guitar was owned by a friend of a friend of Joe Walsh when he played with the James Gang" and Joe used to play it when they jammed..."
I was asked by many parents through the years to "teach my child to play guitar"... to which I always relied "No. Sorry, I don't teach. You need to enroll them in a guitar teacher's class" Of all the kids I know of that started learning to play, I don't know of a single one who continued much past 6 moths to a year at best. Too many other more "instantly gratifying" things to do as a kid, than to spend the hundreds of solitary hours required to play chords with confidence.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Good video and quite true about the lawsuit era guitars. Living in South Africa where the ZAR to $US is more than 10 to 1 even a good lawsuit can be a rather expensive buy.
As a consolation, some very active instrument exchange pages are active on FB and other forums where (Guitar Acquisition Syndrome) GAS can be fed.
As to cheap guitars, it's what they are. These guitars are mostly manufactured en mass and corners are cut to keep cost down which also affects quality.
There are however a few gems out there which are affordable and have some attributes that I like in a guitar, such as the neck and pickup combination. Pickups and pots can be changed out for the desired tone but the neck defines the interpretation to achieve that tone.
I recently acquired a very cheap SX tele for the amazing price of 130$US and was smitten (Love struck) by the neck shape as well as the original pickups. For the past three months it has been my favourite go to electric in favour of my USA Strat and a MIJ Tokai.
Acquiring good affordable (cheap) instruments for beginners are risky as I believe it will end in disappointment once compared to a well set up brand name.
Experience and tonal preference will make such purchases easier and more affordable over time. Alternatively take a skilled guitarist to play before you pay.
My stringy rambling for the day
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.................
I recently acquired a very cheap SX tele for the amazing price of 130$US and was smitten (Love struck) by the neck shape as well as the original pickups. For the past three months it has been my favourite go to electric in favour of my USA Strat and a MIJ Tokai.
...............
This brought a smile to my face. I also have an inexpensive SX Tele that my wife bought me. At the time it was $109 USD. A good friend came over with his $2,500 USD Fender Tele and he told me, and I quote, "I just wasted a $2,400 USD." The sound and play-ability of my SX was as good as his Fender. YMMV
The fitness trainer asked me, "What kind of a squat are you accustomed to doing?" I said, "Diddly."
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This brought a smile to my face. I also have an inexpensive SX Tele that my wife bought me. At the time it was $109 USD. A good friend came over with his $2,500 USD Fender Tele and he told me, and I quote, "I just wasted a $2,400 USD." The sound and play-ability of my SX was as good as his Fender. YMMV
$2,500 USD for an American Standard Tele??? I just bought a new American Standard tele last year for less than half that, and that's Canadian Dollars too.
Last edited by BlueAttitude; 03/07/17 02:28 AM. Reason: typo
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This brought a smile to my face. I also have an inexpensive SX Tele that my wife bought me. At the time it was $109 USD. A good friend came over with his $2,500 USD Fender Tele and he told me, and I quote, "I just wasted a $2,400 USD." The sound and play-ability of my SX was as good as his Fender. YMMV
$2,500 USD for an American Standard Tele??? I just bought a new American Standard tele last year for less than half that, and that's Canadian Dollars too. That is what he said. He bought it a number of years ago and it was the top of the line model. I see today it sells for $2,000 on line. I know that he bought it from a local music store as he is totally computer illiterate and he did not have a computer. He either misspoke or he did in fact pay that much.
The fitness trainer asked me, "What kind of a squat are you accustomed to doing?" I said, "Diddly."
64 bit Win 11 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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This brought a smile to my face. I also have an inexpensive SX Tele that my wife bought me. At the time it was $109 USD. A good friend came over with his $2,500 USD Fender Tele and he told me, and I quote, "I just wasted a $2,400 USD." The sound and play-ability of my SX was as good as his Fender. YMMV
$2,500 USD for an American Standard Tele??? I just bought a new American Standard tele last year for less than half that, and that's Canadian Dollars too. That is what he said. He bought it a number of years ago and it was the top of the line model. I see today it sells for $2,000 on line. I know that he bought it from a local music store as he is totally computer illiterate and he did not have a computer. He either misspoke or he did in fact pay that much. Yes, that explains it. The deluxe model is a couple of grades up from the basic "American Standard" which is what I have. I remember now seeing them in the store when I got mine. Special low noise pickups, bindings, some other bells and whistles. A lot of money for a guitar!
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Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
Check out all the 202 New RealTracks (in sets 456-467)
And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.
You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
The 2025 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2025 49-PAK!
Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
- Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
- Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
- Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
- Playable RealTracks Set 4
- RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
- SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
- 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
- Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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