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we've seen a lot of app updates, some of which are useful, some of which aren't, at least for me.
Most people would settle for intro, verse, chorus, ending, breaks. That's it.
I think most of us dig biab for the styles. And would be willing to invest more in style innovations and refinements.
Instead we're confronted with a needlessly complicated app, too few improvements in the styles department and still purchasing a package deal with tons of styles we don't want to use.
I'd love a barebones app for playing and every six months style updates as an in app purchase. I'd be more happy to invest in improvements to my style of choice, rather than fancy menus.
Barebones would be like a biab player: no soloists, no recording, no computer keyboard play along scales and so on. Songs, styles, jukebox, playing and conducting, that's all.
Anyone on the same page?
Last edited by Dzjang; 04/12/17 04:15 AM.
Biab, Kontakt, Sampletank and lots of nice libraries, from Fluffy audio to Abbey Road drums. Check out these great contemporary Jazz Styles: www.jazzstylezz.com
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hi, I am definitely with you as regards style improvements over fancy menus developing.
Plus, let me add that i would pleasantly welcome more investment in new MIDI styles.
As Bob "Notes" Norton usually says, realtracks are beautiful pieces of music, but if you search for versatility, none can beat MIDI.
Just my two cents.
Antonio
I muri sono creature... scontrose
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Doctormidi? I'll second that. Using Kontakt has rekindled my love for midi and I use it more and more!
Biab, Kontakt, Sampletank and lots of nice libraries, from Fluffy audio to Abbey Road drums. Check out these great contemporary Jazz Styles: www.jazzstylezz.com
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Antonio, I completely agree with you. MIDI styles have been overlooked for years.
{edit} - I've been using MIDI since the mid 1980s.
Last edited by MarioD; 04/12/17 04:14 AM.
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64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Doctormidi? I'll second that. Using Kontakt has rekindled my love for midi and I use it more and more! Kontakt is my go to VSTi. I have a lot of third party patches for it. FWIW - Google/Bing free Kontakt sounds and you will find some good ones. Also google/bing free VSTis and you will find some great sounding synths.
Life is short so make sure you spend as much time as possible on the Internet arguing with strangers.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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We should have a forum for biab midi users, since you have to resolve a lot of issues if you want to use kontakt or vst's.
Example: i dig the vintage abbey road drums from native instruments. But you have to change the settings for most keys (toms where biab expects an open hi-hat...) even though these drums are gm compatible.
For double bass there's great stuff in Bigcat's blog, suited for Kontakt. But there again, you have to remove key switches or halfway the bass changes from pizzicato to bow!
Nevertheless, a barebone Midi compatible non-audio biab would be great!
Biab, Kontakt, Sampletank and lots of nice libraries, from Fluffy audio to Abbey Road drums. Check out these great contemporary Jazz Styles: www.jazzstylezz.com
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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We should have a forum for biab midi users, since you have to resolve a lot of issues if you want to use kontakt or vst's.
Example: i dig the vintage abbey road drums from native instruments. But you have to change the settings for most keys (toms where biab expects an open hi-hat...) even though these drums are gm compatible.
For double bass there's great stuff in Bigcat's blog, suited for Kontakt. But there again, you have to remove key switches or halfway the bass changes from pizzicato to bow!
Nevertheless, a barebone Midi compatible non-audio biab would be great! I agree about a PGMusic MIDI users forum. This should include BiaB and RB. I would agree to a BiaB MIDI with RT availability. This would include all of the MIDI stuff, (styles, super MIDI tracks etc) and have the ability to purchase and use RTs. On occasion I use RTs and I would hate to loose that function. This MIDI version would not come with any RTs. If you post them on the wishlist forum I will +1 them.
Life is short so make sure you spend as much time as possible on the Internet arguing with strangers.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Count me in, too, for a simpler approach to everything. I prefer real styles over midi. All I need for what I do is a basic chord chart, with lyrics, and access to the mixer. My use for BIAB is live play. I’ve used the program for years, with little exploration of all the features. It’s too intimidating. Just give me a realistic-sounding rhythm section and I’m happy.
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Funny what you all say about a "wishing well" program to do all that... when such a program does actually exist: it's called "Real band", and you all already own it. Carry on...  EDIT: jokes put aside: that's the program you all should take a look: Tracktion Waveform https://www.tracktion.com/products/waveformHTH,
Last edited by LtKojak; 04/12/17 08:01 PM.
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I use both MIDI and Real Styles, but I would guess I'm over 90% MIDI.
With good sound modules you can get MIDI to sound almost as good as the real thing. Definitely close enough for the listening audience.
But MIDI is thousands of times more editable than the RTs. Simple things like perhaps you would like that guitar to sound more like a Telecaster, or a Strat, or a Jazz Box? Easy, two clicks. ... Got a note in the comp clashing with the melody? Move it down an octave, change it, or remove it. ... Want a signature kick in the song? More work involved by impossible in RTs. ... Want to change that ride cymbal to a cowbell? click and drag ... thousands more examples can be listed but you get the idea.
We musicians care about tone, and we should, but the public is not so picky. After all they listen on low bit rate mp3s, before than those awful cassettes, worse than that 8 track machines and before that 45RPM records. There have always been higher fidelity recordings available at about the same price.
And what is good tone anyway? The two top rated jazz tenor saxophonists of the 20th century were John Coltrane and Stan Getz. They played the same model saxophone, Selmer Mark VI. Play their recordings back to back and most non-musician casual listeners will think they are not even playing the same instrument, much less make and model.
And since there are a lot of guitar players here, who has/had the best guitar tone? Hendrix? Kath? Slash? Page? Santana? Benson? Hall? Pass? Beck? Les Paul? Iommi? Gale? Clapton? Burrell? Lukather? Ritenour? Dimebag? Abercrombie? Barre? Skunk? Klugh? Gannon? Ellis? Blackmore? Paisley? BB, Albert or Freddie King? Wylde? Orianthi? Remler? Muddy? Caiola? Django? Setzer? Scofield? Pizzarelli? McLaughlin? Metheny? and so on.
They have very different tone and are so famous we know most of them by one name. And on which guitar are we talking about. Jimmy Page played better on his el-cheapo Danelectro than I can on my Parker.
And voice? Dr. John? Stevie Nicks? John Lennon? Blossom Dearie? There are plenty of singers with bad to mediocre voices that sell zillions of recordings. Why? They have great expression, and the expression connects with the audience, not the tone.
So tone is important, but not the holy grail. Expression trumps tone hands down, and you can manipulate MIDI to get more different types of expression than you can an audio recording.
Some day we may be able to manipulate audio like we can MIDI, and as the tools for editing audio improve, I'll use audio more, but right now it's mostly MIDI.
Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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@notes Norton: expression trumps tone! You are so right. Great examples: Coltrane-Getz, Jimmy Page on Danelectro. Same goes for early Jarrett on a clunky piano, Miles' Plugged Nickel where every musician shines despite amateuristic recording or early Nirvana on a cheap weird sounding amp. I found myself editing a lot of midi drum styles, mostly altering velocities for added dynamics, rather than changing the groove itself. Adjusting the bass part is more difficult. the "new" midi to styles function really analyses the chords and respects the dynamics better. Importing a great midi song with a more sophisticated rhythm section gives good results. But I'm no,drummer or bass player, so... I truly believe better and more expressive styles, including more modern grooves (Joshua Redman's band, Brian Blade, Manu Katche, Roy Haynes, Danny Gottlieb, Dave Holland, Christian McBride) would be worth good money for the live players and lovers of daily practicing. Those same beats, regardless of them being rt or midi, get stale after some time and ruin your practicing. Charles Lloyd could have a whole set of ballads and his band could play it in such different ways that it would sound fresh on every tune. I regret pgmusic producing new styles while mostly recycling drum and bass styles over 10 yrs old. As a player you feel a little betrayed. Certainly if you're a guitarist/pianist: you stick with drum and bass most of the time, don't you? So the new styles reveal themselves fast as being a rehash of the same old, same old. An example: as a practicing musician, you probably have 30 or more Bop tunes to rehearse. There's only three bass midi styles and two midi bass super tracks in a really fast tempo and that bores you to death. Same with drums. Same with bossas, swing, "modern" jazz, ballads. Variety, different feels, dynamics and being able to use your vst's and kontakt libraries 'd be grand!
Last edited by Dzjang; 04/13/17 06:52 PM.
Biab, Kontakt, Sampletank and lots of nice libraries, from Fluffy audio to Abbey Road drums. Check out these great contemporary Jazz Styles: www.jazzstylezz.com
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Dzjang, I enjoyed that last post because you have a most eclectic knowledge of music, by citing that combination of names.
Carry on.
I don't know which feature of BIAB I would be willing to give up, though. I use so many. The addition of a RealTrack to mostly MIDI tracks can do wonders, and vice versa.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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@LtKojak, haha.
Your link to Tracktion Waveform? It gives you a chord progression in one key. But most of us are way more sophisticated than that, :))) you should check our deft sense of harmony. I'd go all tritone on this app!
As for jazz styles, they seem to have more than one! But no more than ten. Pgmusic would rip this app to shreds.
Imagine: you're practicing a song (as you should, because Mark Levine told you so!) in all twelve keys and that one pattern keeps repeating itself in all keys. You'd go medieval on it anytime soon.
Sadly, this happens in biab too: playing in twelve keys and hearing the same bass line over and over again makes you sad, lonely, resentful and overeating, possibly even turning to illegal substance use.
Biab, Kontakt, Sampletank and lots of nice libraries, from Fluffy audio to Abbey Road drums. Check out these great contemporary Jazz Styles: www.jazzstylezz.com
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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@Matt: what features to give up on, I get what you're saying. Maybe it's just me? Most of the time (98%) you'd be rehearsing for a band you play in or refining your chops or trying out new lines, triad pairs maybe? Who needs all the fancy? Recording audio? I have an app for that, But I'm mostly referring to styles. Much as I dig rock, reggae or country, rnb and electro. I never use it. Variety to me is more variety in the style I practice. Same would be true for a country player who sees 150 country styles, but only discovers after,a while that the same ten bass and drum styles have been applied to all of them, over and over. So, I'd like some basic reggae styles, but don't have me pay for reggae updates I don't use. While, on the other hand, I'd go all Kim-Kardashian if totally new styles from the ground up, including drums and bass, would appear in the store. I'd spend some money on that. Because it would make me happy! And fun to be around! And cuz it would land me my own reality show in prime time!
Biab, Kontakt, Sampletank and lots of nice libraries, from Fluffy audio to Abbey Road drums. Check out these great contemporary Jazz Styles: www.jazzstylezz.com
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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True, I use many other software programs to do certain functions BIAB can also do: recording, notation, and sequencing come immediately to mind.
The request for more variety in bass tracks for certain genres has been made in the Wishlist (maybe by you)? Perhaps head there and give it some support with specific suggestions.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Your link to Tracktion Waveform? It gives you a chord progression in one key. But most of us are way more sophisticated than that The gave just a tiny example showing the very basic function of what the tool can do. If you care to watch again, you'll see an impressive array of different chord progressions, which you can alter, add, subtract, create your own, and chain'em in any way you want. Kinda automated style maker that will be just as simple or sophisticated as your own self want it to be.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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@Matt: .......... Same would be true for a country player who sees 150 country styles, but only discovers after a while that the same ten bass and drum styles have been applied to all of them, over and over .... So, I'd like some basic reggae styles, but don't have me pay for reggae updates I don't use ..... My feelings too .... Definitely the MIDI department of BIAB seems to be at a standstill for years compared to MIDI editors and even audio tools f.i. Cubase has. For MIDI: RapidComposer, Onyx Arranger, Style enhancer, and surely quite a quite few more are far ahead ... Besides if you use the GM functions of HalionSonic or the now declared dead Hypersonic VSTs, the MIDI audio-related sample stuff can sound quite good at times, especially compared to BIAB's Coyote wavetable synth. BIAB's drum editor hasn't changed very much since Atari-days LoL. How's about some groove-timing functions there? EZ drummer is far ahead as prerecorded MIDI-drum tool arranger. The strength of BIAB still is the quickly translation of a bunch of typed chords into an arrangement ... oops, ah, alas there's this weird verse-chorus construction and the annoying limited time sign-measures versus bar counting system again and again in each "update". .... F
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Cakewalk Sonar just enhanced their MIDI Piano Roll Tools as well.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 12TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 12TB SATA BB2026/UMC204HD&404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Notion/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com (under rehosting/construction)
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That's why I love using RapidComposerVSTi with Biab/RB it expands the midi capabilities way beyond Biab's. You can have any midi/phrases where you want them and not just take whatever BB generates where it generates. So you can save Biab midi/MSTs to a phrase. As many chords per bar as you like. Change Signature/Scale anywhere. Store Virtual Instrument keyswitches within a phrase that will re-fit anywhere to any chord/scale. I love RealTracks but as Bob, Mario and others state, more versatility with midi. That's why I'm trying to get PG to make the RealCharts/Tabs usable with Virtual Instruments same as Ample Sound can play Guitar Pro Tab and save measures to Riffs. So the Articulations in Control 85 that represent Bends, slides, Hammer On, Pull Off (Vibrato could be added) can be converted to custom keyswitches or midi bend info for your Virtual Instruments. Also Export the TAB in the MXML. You could have a Sax play a guitar piece as a complement or answer to a guitar. You can create custom Solos within the DI RealTracks by adding a DI Virtual Instrument to any section of RealTrack. http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=404310http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=406203
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Variety, different feels, dynamics and being able to use your vst's and kontakt libraries 'd be grand!
To me there's a contradiction here. Here it is: 1. Users want simple. 2. Simple is General Midi. 3. Biab is therefore based on GM. 4. The midi styles are GM. 5. GM does not allow for all the dynamics and expression you're talking about. GM is the limitation here. It's not just the basic sound quality of a high end synth vs a cheap GM synth, as you've written about it's also the nuances or expression of the midi "performance". Creating better styles that would work well with non GM softsynths wouldn't make any difference. The reason is just because a high end softsynth is designed to respond to very subtle controls that will make a part sound much more authentic, Biab is not capable of sending those commands because they're not part of the GM spec. This is why if you really want that level of control you can start with basic Biab style tracks but you then need to move them to a DAW where you can have that level of control over your synths. This is not simple or fast or easy. This takes us full circle to 1 and 2 above. If you want PG to revamp Biab to incorporate some of the new advanced midi features being talked about great, put those ideas in the Wishlist forum. Peter has surprised us before. Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
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Last Chance! The Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® Special Ends Today (May 31, 2026) at 11:59pm PDT!
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With Band-in-a-Box® 2026, we've released 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 468-488) in a variety of genres—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Funk & World (Sets 468-475):
Our new jazz, funk & blues RealTracks include a groovin’ collection of RealTracks and RealDrums! These include more requested “soul jazz” RealTracks featuring artists Neil Swainson (bass), Charles Treadway (organ), Brent Mason (guitar), and Wes Little (drums). There are new “smooth jazz” styles (4), which include a RealTracks first: muted trumpet, as well as slick new smooth jazz brushes options for drums. Blues lovers will be thrilled—there are more “classic acoustic blues” styles, including guitar (5), bass (4), and drums (10) with blues master Colin Linden, featuring understated and tasty background acoustic soloing, plus brushes drums and acoustic bass. There are also new electric blues RealTracks, including electric blues with PG favorite Johnny Hiland (3) and soulful electric slide guitar from Colin Linden (4). If you love funk & gospel, there are great new options this year, including gospel organ (3) from Charles Treadway, as well as new funk, tango, and rock ’n’ roll drums (3) and bass (1). And for big, bold arrangements, we have uptempo soul horns (4) featuring a three-part hip horn section with options for a full mix or stems of each individual horn — plus an accompanying rhythm section (4) of drums, bass, guitar, and electric piano!
Rock & Pop (Sets 476–482):
Our new rock & pop RealTracks bring a powerful mix of requested favorites, fresh genres, and modern chart-inspired styles! We have more of our popular “Producer Layered Acoustic Guitars (15)” featuring Band-in-a-Box favorite Brent Mason. We’ve continued our much-requested disco styles (10), and added new Celtic guitar (5) with a more basic, accessible approach than our previous Drop-D or DADGAD offerings. There are also highly requested yacht rock styles (17), inspired by the smooth, polished soft-rock sound of the late ’70s and early ’80s — laid-back grooves, silky electric pianos, warm textures, elegant harmonic movement, and pristine production aesthetics. Fans of heavier styles will love our new glam metal (13), capturing the flashy, high-energy sound of ’80s arena-ready guitar rock. We also have a set of rootsy modern-folk rock (18), with a warm, organic sound combining contemporary folk textures and driving acoustic strumming. And we’ve added lots of new modern pop styles (16) — the kinds of sounds you’re hearing on the radio today, featuring exciting new drums, synths, and cutting-edge RealTracks arrangements.
Country, & Americana (Sets 483–488):
Our new country & Americana RealTracks deliver a rich collection of acoustic, electric, and roots-inspired styles! We have new country pop (9) with legendary guitarist Brent Mason. There is also a potpourri (14) of bouzouki, guitars, banjo, and more, perfect for adding texture and character to contemporary acoustic arrangements. We’ve added funky country guitar (5) with PG favorite Brent Mason, along with classic pedal steel styles (5) featuring steel great Doug Jernigan. There are more country songwriter styles (8) that provide intimate, rootsy foundations for storytelling and modern Americana writing. Finally, we have “background soloing” acoustic guitar (12) with Brent Mason — simpler, but still very tasty acoustic lines designed to sit beautifully behind vocals or act as a subtle standalone solo part.
Check out all the 202 new RealTracks (in sets 468-488)!
And, if you are looking for more, the 2026 49-PAK (for $49) includes an impressive collection of 20 bonus RealTracks, featuring exciting and inspiring additions to add to your RealTracks library. You'll get new country-rhythm guitar styles from PG Music favorites Johnny Hiland and Brent Mason, along with modern-pop grooves that capture today’s radio-ready sound! There are also new indie-folk styles with guitar, bass, 6-string bass used as a high-chording instrument, acoustic guitar, and banjo. Plus, dedicated "cymbal fills" RealDrums provide an added layer that work very well with low-key folky styles with other percussion.
The 2026 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2026 49-PAK!
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
With your version 2026 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
- Playable RealTracks Set 5
- RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
- SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
- iOS Android Band-in-a-Box® App
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
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