it would be great if you can redesign the GUI. In this state it looks old-fashionned, more like a random collection of functions and is therefore not very productive.
There are great GUI designs out there (Cubase, ...) which you could imitate.
Best regards,
AT Nguyen
Originally Posted By: Michael Khor
Hi, BB GUI has improved over the years but at rather very slow and conservative pace, probably to keep its appearance vintage BB pre-2000. I would suggest all to look at how User Interfaces are done in other complex apps like Photoshop/Photo-Brush and Sony DVD Architect for redesign ideas. Even better, go all the way to look at MS Office latest smart "ribbons"............ regards michael
Biab was designed and programed by musicians not GUI artist, it's all been said, mentioned, complained, pleaded about for years n years n years. If you go through that post you will see the GUI Saga, PG was approached by Universal to make a movie about it. It's just how it is, you just need to persevere with Biab or use RealBand. I purchased RapidComposer some time back and gave up on it as it was too hard to work out, but I went back to it and learned a bit more and found out how good it is, my perseverance paid off.
Yes, that valid concern was in 2008 and the GUI has changed since then. It's not the same GUI now. That's not to say that further improvements are not suggested, but to be fair, it's a very different interface in 2017 than what it was in 2008.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
And I would highly suggest reading the user manual (it's a PDF file). While it could also be better, there is a lot of information there about how the program works, how it is laid out, and what you can do.
BIAB is many things to many people and the company has accommodated much of that (sometimes to the chagrin of folks who only want it to do what they want to do with it, which of course would be much tot he chagrin of those who want it to do something different, ad infinitum).
But ask questions here. No one bites anyone's head off (unless the question is presented rudely), and lots of folks jump in and try to help. It's not instantaneous, as we are all just users and many have day jobs and are away from their music PC's, but help will come.
And even if the videos are somewhat dated, the concepts are all there. A menu item may have moved to a different place in the newer versions than what you see in the video, but it's still there. Just ask and you'll get pointed in the right direction.
And because of all it does, there is a learning curve. Think of it more like picking up an instrument and trying to learn it. Because in a lot of ways, BIAB is an instrument (of a whole band, if you will). It just takes a little time to become proficient, and then once you do, you'll find you can really do a lot musically with it.
John
Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 12TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 12TB SATA
Yes, you can do a lot in BiaB, but not intuitively. Some of the OP's points are valid to me also, and we are both in a career that deals with this sort of thing. There are others here as well. The point is; for a BEGINNER a lot of how BiaB works is confusing and frustrating. There is room for improvement.
However I'll respectfully disagree with his Photoshop example of simplicity. It took me about as much time to understand that interface as it did BiaB. I do not consider PS intuitive at all. Powerful; yes /kinda like BiaB, both powerful but both took me a while to get used to //PS is prettier, I'll give it that .. but it's a graphics program so it better be <grin>
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome Make your sound your own!
The initial complaint is that BiaB is hard to use for a beginner. That's a valid complaint, and something that we are working to improve. I don't agree that the cause of this is some kind of GUI issue.
For example, the original poster mentions his first GUI issue that he doesn't like "Even sorting [stylpicker] columns doesn't seem to work".
That wouldn't be a GUI issue to begin with, but in fact that function does work. It's just he is not aware that is is going to (by default) list RealStyles first, and then MIDI styles. And that this is a setting in the StylePicker-Options dialog.
What isn't needed is a remake of the GUI. This has been done and well received. What is needed is a series of video tutorials to explain how to use the software. Most people have no trouble doing the basics, but if you delve deeper, Band-in-a-Box can do many other things.
So anyway, we are planning a series of video tutorials to explain various aspects of the programs. One of which would be the StylePicker, where we show you why sorting columns will still list RealStyles first, and then the older MIDI styles. (because most people use RealStyles and don't want to see MIDI styles), and how this is configurable.
Let us know what you are having problems with and we can help you work through it.
Exactly. We read lots of criticism, but not a single statement about what the O/P had actually attempted to do but was unable to achieve. Was it to 'enter chords?', 'print notation?', 'select a style?'. Work with us, and we'll work with you .
I agree. I have 5,327 styles and that is quite a formidable task to wade through at first glance. He's right that maybe a bit more information and guidance necessary to narrow the choices. Fortunately, there is already a quick solution available to address his particular issue with the Style Picker.
Peter Gannon states: "What isn't needed is a remake of the GUI. This has been done and well received. What is needed is a series of video tutorials to explain how to use the software. Most people have no trouble doing the basics, but if you delve deeper, Band-in-a-Box can do many other things. "
That's a great answer. I suggest that while we wait on a series of video tutorials to explain how to use the software, that you repost a video you made sometime back where you demonstrated using the Style Picker to make a cover of "Hotel California". (Post Your Own Tips and Ticks Thread)
You demonstrated how quickly and easily you located an accurate backing track using the << Play over your chord progression>> option after filtering your search. Your video was a response to a somewhat similar complaint from a user who was having navigation difficulties.
That video is very enlightening and useful and immediately helpful to texasprenegade.
............ What isn't needed is a remake of the GUI. This has been done and well received. What is needed is a series of video tutorials to explain how to use the software. Most people have no trouble doing the basics, but if you delve deeper, Band-in-a-Box can do many other things.
So anyway, we are planning a series of video tutorials to explain various aspects of the programs. One of which would be the StylePicker, where we show you why sorting columns will still list RealStyles first, and then the older MIDI styles. (because most people use RealStyles and don't want to see MIDI styles), and how this is configurable.
That is an excellent answer to many of the problems beginners and older users like myself would benefit. I hope these videos start with the bare basics for beginners but also will run into the more advance uses of BiaB. I know there are things in BiaB that I haven't looked at yet videos are the best way for me the learn.
Dad, how will I know when I've become an adult.
When your day is ruined because they rearranged the grocery store.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
That thread was similar to this one, in that someone was complaining that the stylepicker made it hard to find a song in the style of Hotel California. Others disagreed in the thread, and I described how I spent about 5 minutes to find the style I wanted and type in some chords to end up with a song with different chords but similar style. Everything including the guitar solo came from biab. https://www.dropbox.com/s/yttthubdj7lorzi/PopBalladDemo-2.m4a?dl=0
Thanks for posting the thread again Dr. Gannon. That particular demonstration was an eye opener for me and has contributed a lot to increasing the fun factor I get from BIAB.
I appreciate the helpful discussion and I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
But what I will say is this: I've learned very complicated software before in my field and at first had lots of trouble navigating their complexity. After I get some help, whether through a tutorial or my own perseverance, I look back and say, "Now I see why the UI was designed that way and it makes sense. It's hard, but this was a good way to design it." So I don't expect instant gratification or complete knowledge of the UI at first glance, but am able to recognize how a UI can help me do what I want with the software. When I figure out something new in BIAB, I look back and say, "That took a lot of work and the UI didn't really help me much and in some cases got in my way. Next time I'll just have to memorize the steps I took."
That's my experience with two different software, both very complex and approached with an open mind and the willingness to work hard at understanding, yet resulting in very different conclusions. Take it for what it's worth, but that's my experience and unfortunately I don't think we're going to see eye to eye on this.
I understand, no problem in agreeing to disagree. Myself and many others happily share our knowledge any time we can help and hope you will give us the opportunity if the need arises.
I will say that you have never actually articulated to us what you can't do with BIAB. Completing the steps to input chords and generate a song is pretty much as complicated as it gets. Midi setup and vst's can be troublesome but are only issues if that is an area you want to use to enhance the sound quality, dynamics or add an effect to a song. Notation can be a mystery but moreso because one needs to understand notation. Everything beyond the point of generating a song are methods, techniques or procedures to make your tracks sound better, be more authentic to an original piece or to function in practice and educational aspects. In other words, they are not necessary to navigate BIAB.
New users of BIAB/RB that join the forum are fresh eyes and ears to forum members and PGMusic. We welcome your insight, criticisms and suggestions. Hopefully, disagreeing with you or you disagreeing with us will not discourage your participation.
I have never in my decades of using and writing software seen a more confusing, disorganized, and cluttered user interface than Band in a Box, and never experienced a greater need for good tutorials. Please, fire the GUI department and start over. Start with mashing together Chordpulse and the Digitech Trio (but in software) -- each is stupidly easy to use. Complexity can be added in a better way than just cramming another button on the front page.
Interesting that the two examples you cite are toys compared to BIAB.
Chordpulse? Seriously?
No one here will tell you to RTFM before calling for a complete re-write of the program. They are too nice. I will. It's worth it.
Interesting that the two examples you cite are toys compared to BIAB.
Chordpulse? Seriously?
No one here will tell you to RTFM before calling for a complete re-write of the program. They are too nice. I will. It's worth it.
Regards,
Bob
Bob,
The problem with your "RTFM" response is the 2017 Band-in-a-Box user manual is 669 pages in length. Also, the inclusion of a revised manual in each of the eight 2017 BiaB patches released so far this year further complicates matters.
I agree the manual is a valuable, but much ignored, learning resource but very few people have time to learn a 669 page manual.
I agree the manual is a valuable, but much ignored, learning resource but very few people have time to learn a 669 page manual.
I have to agree. All of the information is beneficial. However there needs to be possibly at least two levels of manuals: 1: Most Users - Fundamental settings to get you going and perform typical functions. 2: Experts - Under the Hood. The Nuts and Bolts that hold it all together, how it works, and why.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
John Ford said the same thing , albeit with more finesse.
This GUI debate is getting tedious.
Is the UI clunky? Yep.
Is it buggy sometimes? Yep.
Consider this:
There are no other programs that can do what this one can. Period.
“The problem with your "RTFM" response is the 2017 Band-in-a-Box user manual is 669 pages in length. Also, the inclusion of a revised manual in each of the eight 2017 BiaB patches released so far this year further complicates matters.
I agree the manual is a valuable, but much ignored, learning resource but very few people have time to learn a 669 page manual.”
So, you've spent several hundred dollars on a very complex program, and you don't “have time” to crack a manual? I love manuals. You can learn how to use stuff with them.
I would rather watch a movie than read a book, you do an "RTFM" as a last resort, most people these days would rather watch a video.
"PG was approached by Universal to make a movie about it." that was a joke, but I think it is really what it needs, a Movie, as in long, covering all aspects like an up to date Video Manual without having to go to Groove3 and and other Tutorials.
"The videos on pgmusic.com are several years out of date and mostly worthless to a new user."
"The first nice attempts pointed me to some videos that I found inadequate."
"What is needed is a series of video tutorials to explain how to use the software. Most people have no trouble doing the basics, but if you delve deeper, Band-in-a-Box can do many other things."
A local video manual rather than video help buttons linked to old youtube videos, I have these below but the are all old ones.
I would sit down and make them but I don't have any where near enough musical knowledge or about all the ins n outs of BB.
You can just use mp4 h264 low bitrate/framerate and they are not much bigger than an audio file.
John Ford said the same thing , albeit with more finesse.
This GUI debate is getting tedious. I agree
Is the UI clunky? Yep. Again I agree
Is it buggy sometimes? Yep. We are still in agreement
Consider this:
There are no other programs that can do what this one can. Period.Bob, you are so right with this comment!
“The problem with your "RTFM" response is the 2017 Band-in-a-Box user manual is 669 pages in length. Also, the inclusion of a revised manual in each of the eight 2017 BiaB patches released so far this year further complicates matters.
I agree the manual is a valuable, but much ignored, learning resource but very few people have time to learn a 669 page manual.”
So, you've spent several hundred dollars on a very complex program, and you don't “have time” to crack a manual? I love manuals. You can learn how to use stuff with them. Nope. Actually I've read the manual several times cover to cover. I also make it a point to skim through the manual with each revision to find out where the changes are documented. I love manuals too! I wrote manuals for more than a decade and proofread manuals even longer. I can't think of any program that needs a 669 page description.
Regards,
Bob
I don't think we disagree, I just sometimes enjoy having the conversation.
I would rather watch a movie than read a book, you do an "RTFM" as a last resort, most people these days would rather watch a video.
Right and this is why society has turned into a bunch of 30 second, no scratch that, 15 second soundbite idiots with the attention span of a 2 year old.
Doctors don't become doctors by watching videos. Engineers don't become engineers by watching videos. I didn't become a tax expert by watching stupid videos. It takes study, good writing skills and experience. EXPERIENCE.
Experience, what a concept.
This is a music program. Anybody here think music is SIMPLE? Is it EASY? Hell no. Music is one of the most complex things there is. Software that can approach pro level quality is by it's very nature extremely complex. There are college degrees in music production. Those courses are all about working with software because that's what every studio in the world uses. Software, software and more software. You want complex, try Pro Tools, Cubase, Sonar. Biab by contrast is quite simple compared to those.
Pipeline you seem to be an expert with a whole range of high end music software. Just how long have you been doing this? How long did it take you to be come this proficient? What is your background that allowed you to become so proficient with both computers and all this music software?
It ain't easy and watching some video tutorials is a decent start to get you going but they won't make you an expert. Reading 619 pages of the manual is what's needed for that. And lots of experience. Did I say that word again? Why, yes I did. Experience.
Forget the GUI and start making some music. When you're stuck post it here and somebody will show you how it's done. .
In the time it's taken for some of you guys but especially the OP, to write this huge gripefest about the GUI you could have created 10 songs and posted questions asking how to make them better.
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MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
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