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Reaper and BIAB are a perfect combination. Both run simultaneously on my DAW (ASIO to Reaper and MME to BIAB).
My workflow almost always starts in BIAB which provides the source of the inspiration and the tools to lay out the song structure. All composition is done in BIAB as well as much of the arrangement of the backing tracks.
Then everything is moved to Reaper (each individual track) where my recording is all performed. Reaper is a rock solid DAW which can handle all the VSTi, midi input, guitar and vocal recording without a hickup. It will also permit flexible routing of any device such as the VLT2 and midi keyboard.
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud (Tip: No need to create a SC account to hear music - just hit ESC ).
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Hi Dan,
Thanks for all the info RE BIAB and TC. I have the new TC VL3X and am trying to integrate it into my setup. So all this helps a lot. I was not able to download the redirector. Could I get a copy from you.
Thanks,
Rob
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Interesting, heard some demos of the TC VL3X, got a little interested, for studio use especially. Seems a great weapon for live performances, but reading the specs, 16bit 48kHz max only (as IMO 24bit already really makes a substantial difference), the specific floorboard design, and maybe too limited harmony control (??) via midi i think it would be not suitable for me . Pity the cheaper TC stuff have very limited external control functions, as their harmony functions sound good. F
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So all this helps a lot. I was not able to download the redirector. Could I get a copy from you. Rob, you have a PM.
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud (Tip: No need to create a SC account to hear music - just hit ESC ).
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Dan,
I'm also running Reaper and BIAB. Very stable setup. Are you doing any recording into Reaper with the TC? As I said I have a new VL3X, and would be interested in knowing your particular hookup info between the TC and Reaper. Thanks for any advice you might wish to share.
Rob
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Dan,
I'm also running Reaper and BIAB. Very stable setup. Are you doing any recording into Reaper with the TC? As I said I have a new VL3X, and would be interested in knowing your particular hookup info between the TC and Reaper. Thanks for any advice you might wish to share.
Rob Rob, I touched on my outcome with BIAB earlier in the thread. 1) I was never able to really integrate it into my live BIAB show. Too complex and not enough time to master it to the level necessary. In the end I did little work with the TC-VLT2 in BIAB but quickly moved to Reaper with it. Here is what I found. For Studio Work I never got it to work as I wanted - I was not successful in routing-in and recording a dry signal and then applying the VLT2 effects to that and bouncing the track. The routing of the VLT2 was just not flexible enough (although it claimed to be), it just didn't work for me. Direct recording of the wet-effects was not problem into Reaper. And routing of a midi signal to control the harmonies was doable with Reaper. But what I wanted, and have never found, is a full VST app which you can apply effects on a dry vocal track. Reaper still runs on my machine, but the VLT2 is in the closet. I am looking for a project to pull it out again. so maybe I will have an update for you in the near future.
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud (Tip: No need to create a SC account to hear music - just hit ESC ).
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I spent the last two days woodshedding with the TC Helicon VL3X and was able to make some great progress in getting a recording setup going. As has been mentioned in this thread this piece of equipment is a real beast with more capability than anyone would ever need. The 200+ page reference manual covers all the gritty details. It's an amazing machine. I don't know what the VL2 is capable of but the VL3X seems to cover all the bases. BTW, this is not my first rodeo with TC Helicon harmonizers as I still own a TCH VoicePrism rackmount harmonizer that I got back in 2000. Still works great but no match for the VL3X. So here's the scoop on recording: Recording to a DAW with the VL3X is a snap. Just connect your computer to the VL3X with a USB cable, select the VL3X as your audio input/output device in your DAW and you're ready to rock. You get two channels of output to the VL3X and two channels back to the DAW. There are three recording MODES with this setup that should handle anything you want to do: 1. The STEREO mode sends your DAW output into the VL3X where the NATURAL PLAY feature reads the key perfectly and adds the correct harmonies to your vocal. The STEREO mode ADDS your DAW output to your VOCAL as well so if that isn't what you wanted there are two other MODES. 2. The DAW TRACKING mode is the same as the STEREO mode except the DAW audio is NOT added to your vocal and you can record a vocal only track with or without the VL3X effects. 3. And lastly, the DAW INSERT mode allows you to send a dry track (vocal or instrument) from your DAW to the VL3X for processing and subsequent return to your DAW for recording on a new track. Other than the USB cable the only other input I needed into the VL3X was the mic. Pretty simple. As for live performance, the VL3X can load and play backing tracks (created by BIAB for example)from it's USB port via a thumbdrive (or a properly formatted external hard disk). It can sequence and play the backing tracks and can be programmed to add whatever effects/processing you want to each individual backing track along with your vocal/guitar performance. I have NOT played with this feature yet but it seems pretty straightforward. Just dump all your BIAB files to MP3s on a thumbdrive and create a set list in the VL3X. BTW, the VL3X can also record your performances to the thumbdrive as well. To learn more about these subjects I suggest downloading the VL3Z reference manual from the TC Helicon website and read the section on USB AUDIO for starters. http://www.tc-helicon.com/media/4006/tc-helicon_voicelive_3_reference_manual_english.pdfLater, Rob
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I am heading to the closet to pull out the old VLT2. I think it is a bit more limited than that fancy new unit, but you peeked my interest. thanks for update.
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud (Tip: No need to create a SC account to hear music - just hit ESC ).
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Hello Rob. Thanks for the info on your VL3X, by now i'm getting a little curious about the stuff you record with it ... F
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Hello Rob. Thanks for the info on your VL3X, by now i'm getting a little curious about the stuff you record with it ... F Hi Fiddler... I'll be using the VL3X exclusively in our studio and not in a live situation, although it seems perfect for that too. So we'll be using it on creating covers, original songs etc. utilizing BIAB for the most part to create our backing tracks. We then transfer the BIAB tracks to our DAW for further processing, additional vocals, guitar, and mixing/mastering. The VL3X will save us tons of time on creating harmonies for demos and the like. Since we just got this thing we haven't completed any projects with it but we have tried it on one new original song project, at least partially. Here's a sample: Not Every Day Was Sad This is nowhere near completed and the harmonies only occur in the chorus near the end. But you get the idea. Sounds pretty good to me. Imagine if we really tried.  Rob
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How accurate are the VL3X harmonies generated from a mixed BIAB track played from a thumb drive? Does it really work well that way? I thought it produced vocal harmonies only via midi or a guitar input signal. This discussion has peeked my interest, if it will provide harmonies from an audio track. That opens a lot of doors.
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Rob, thanks; ... as for vocal studio work etc i am and was always messing around with all sorts of VST stuff, and even the newer vocaloids recently. Varying results, but it never got me near the real thang with some hired ladies & gents, but it's always too tempting as you can change stuff melodically, even lyrics, until the very end of some project. Saves costs too. IMO 16bits digital (Audiophile and the VL3X?) always gets too a point when too many digital tracks get together in a mix, the lot starts sounding like a wild river after a rainstorm upstream; you really need good DA (and AD) converters and word clock to reduce muddiness and keep details clear. Although in the old days a 16bit Akai DR8 multi-tracker could sound surprisingly good linked to an external clock signal. Now who here is going to experiment with the VL3X producing out some nice a Capella barbershop vocal work, and/or transgender vocals? PS your song, sound, music & singing is great ... F Thanks MusicStudent, a bit 50+ cheesy result LoL? Guess good enough when used live though.
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I think the VL3X (and the VL3) have their uses. I suppose the danger is to become enamored of the technology and try to use it on everything because it sounds so good. This thing does a LOT of cool stuff. You just have to check out YouTube to hear a small part of it's capabilities. I'd prefer real voices to computer generated harmonies IF I have folks available that want to spend the time to lay down real harmony parts. And in fact I usually record my own parts when time is not an issue. But for a songwriter who wants to create something where harmonies are a big part of the creation the VL3X can help you get the effect you're looking for quickly. Not unlike using BIAB to create a new song and get a feel for how it would sound fully produced. As for the technical quality, even 16 bit stuff works for me for this kind of work. I use BIAB EP rather than Audiophile and I've never been unhappy with it. In fact the last 10 albums I produced had quiet a few BIAB songs on them. Note that the VL3X manual provides the following DA/AD conversion specs as: "D to A Conversion 24 Bit, 128 x oversampling bitstream, 115 dB SNR A-weighted" "A to D Conversion 24 Bit, 128 x oversampling bitstream, 110 dB SNR A-weighted" While the quality of and accuracy of the harmonies are as good as I've ever heard they are still computer generated and if used "as is" can sound a bit mechanical. But it's not so apparent that I'd decline to use it. Again you have to decide if the final product you're creating is worth the additional effort and cost of using real harmonies. There are a number of professional groups using the VL Rack in their performances and I imagine in their recording work. The old TC VoicePrism required a midi guide track for creating vocal harmonies. Whereas the VL3Z accurately reads audio input to create tracks, whether its a guitar, keyboard, or a full audio file. Here's a clip from our initial woodshedding experiments with the VL3X with just my guitar. Don't laugh now, it's what it is. But the harmonies follow the guitar perfectly; the only limitation to accurate harmony creation is my dodgy vocal performance. Again this is one-take stuff and totally unedited: VL3X Test 1 VL3X Test 2If this is how I can sound doing a one-take performance I'd have no qualms about taking the VL3X to the stage. Also, just sitting down with a guitar and playing around with the VL3X you get all kinds of ideas for a song or lyric, very much like you do with BIAB. It's inspirational. Not much else can do that these days. What a great recording recording partner the VL3X is when used with BIAB. Some cool stuff there, boy! Later, Rob
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Thanks for sharing the vocal demos. Sounds darn good - No shame in your game! You have this thing figured out pretty well. I think the TCHelicon products do vocal harmonies better than any other hardware unit out there (no software solution compares). My biggest problem with the VL3X is the cost  otherwise I would tradeup the VLT2 to get the better routing capabilities. These are fun units.
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud (Tip: No need to create a SC account to hear music - just hit ESC ).
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Note that the VL3X manual provides the following DA/AD conversion specs as:
"D to A Conversion 24 Bit, 128 x oversampling bitstream, 115 dB SNR A-weighted"
"A to D Conversion 24 Bit, 128 x oversampling bitstream, 110 dB SNR A-weighted" Ah, that makes more sense, and especially when you use it as computer DAW interface too .... i used a TC Finalizer 96kHz from when this model came out for mastering about 12 years ago .... only since a year or two i stopped this and use mainly some VST stuff, basically out of laziness since keeping all within the computer saves time than realtime mastering unto a separate hard disk recorder, and reloading suff into the PC. But the Finalizer was and still is a great tool. Even good at reducing the muddiness of badly done 2 track masters. I recently sold it, but with regrets ... F
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Dan, Yea...it's a pretty pricey item. However, I don't have a bass boat or a sportscar or a Harley anymore. So I feel like I can justify the cost considering how much time I devote to my music. Besides, I got mine just before the price went up recently so I saved about $150 off the current price. But frankly I would have bought it anyway. I did a LOT of research on it before I sprung. And I spend a few hundred a year on BIAB so just feeding my musical addiction. BB
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Rob, did you have a look at the VoiceLive Rack? [img:left] http://cdn-assets.tc-helicon.com/media/3050/tch-website-feature-overlay-voicelive-rack.jpg?quality=55&width=1680[/img] Lacks guitar effects which are usually better anyway from other devices according some guitarists, but otherwise a handy tool in a studio. The VL3x however seem to have far more features, most meant for standalone stage work as f.i. looping, but the TC demos i saw were only based on simple looping: adding stuff to a simple starter, something i am less interested in LoL. I wonder if these overdubs are built in to separate exportable wavs, or just overdubs always melted down in to one mixdown file. Can one combine different recorded loops into a song construction and export them as separate WAV files or tracks?. I remember buying an Akai MPC5000 once in an attempt to find a handy quick and dirty hardware tool for songwriting, but found it too complex regarding workflow and the slightly "limited" sound quality with 16bit AD/DA converters, so i sold it ... The VL3X seems a success however for TC as they're sold by the bucket load ... F
Last edited by fiddler2007; 07/01/17 11:22 PM.
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I really must get my VL3Ext out of its box! I love the VL2 though.
Windows 10 Home 20H2 Build 19042.487
BIAB 2021 (Build 818)
Intel(R) Core(TM), i3-4160, CPU @3.60 GHz RAM 16 GB, 64 Bit X64-based processor
Zoom UAC-2 (USB 3 interface-built in midi)
VoiceLive 3 Extreme, Sputnik Valve Condenser Mic
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Fiddler, The VL Rack is what I considered buying first, but from what I can tell it has the old VL2 technology. I doubt it will be long before it's upgraded to the new features. Apparently TC is finding it more efficient to combine guitar and vocal capabilities into one product. I have a TC G-force guitar effects rackmount unit that has some great sounds. I wouldn't expect TC to incorporate anything less than great quality effects into products like the VL3(X). Historically, it's just not how they roll. Yea I think TCH hit the motherlode with the VL3X. I have friends calling for setup help whom I wouldn't think would even know about this thing. Since TC doesn't allow discounting apparently, and I've checked prices all over, I'd recommend to anyone making the purchase that they buy it from PG Music. Just another way to support the company we all like so much. As for looping I don't see where I'd use it that much, but then I haven't delved into that area of the VL3X, yet. A lot of popular music is created with loops, John Mayer comes to mind. Guess we'll have to wait and see on that feature. I think the USB/thumbdrive BACKING TRACK feature makes the VL3X a great tool for songwriting or just practicing. And if you come up with a great idea you can record it back to the thumbdrive. All you need is your instrument, a vocal mic, the VL3X, a headset and a thumbdrive. No computer required; just throw a bunch of your BIAB created MP3s on the thumbdrive and practice or create til you can't see straight. Well enough chatter; we're burning daylight. I'm heading to the studio to play with the VL3X and the new Xtra Styles PAK 3 for Band-in-a-Box. There are some very cool styles in there I can't wait to use for a new song or two...or three! Oh, mommie, we're having some fun now! Later 'tater, Rob
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I hate to be a pest on this issue after all this discussion; but it’s still not clear to me what the VL3X is capable of doing. I’m sure it will track a guitar or midi signal very well to generate vocal harmony. However, before investing that kind of money, here’s what I’d like to know about the audio input: Let’s say you take a fully mixed BIAB track as a wav file and plug it in on a thumb drive. Say, the song is a standard tune, like Misty in Eb. You plug in a mic, make the proper adjustments, start play on the track, and begin to sing (no guitar or anything else plugged in, in this example). Will the VL3X generate appropriate vocal harmonies from the audio track alone, while singing, with no other instrument providing the chords? If it will do that accurately without glitches, then, that’s more than amazing and will get my attention for sure. If anyone has used the VL3X exclusively with the audio input, I’d love to hear about it.
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You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
The 2025 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2025 49-PAK!
Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
- Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
- Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
- Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
- Playable RealTracks Set 4
- RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
- SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
- 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
- Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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