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Tip: Turn the Natural Arrangement OFF for your RT soloists! #417230 06/10/17 01:13 PM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
Joined: Nov 2012 Posts: 4,786 Iceland Icelander OP Veteran
OP Icelander Veteran Joined: Nov 2012 Posts: 4,786 Iceland	I've discovered that if the Natural Arrangement is active on the track of your chosen soloist (RT, not midi!), the result is much more limited and repetitive in terms of what you actually get played. So be sure to manually turn that OFF for your soloist(s) in your Track Settings. Last edited by Icelander; 06/10/17 01:30 PM. Reason: Correcting mistakes Just because you can, doesn't mean you should! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BBox 2022 Audiophile, Mac Pro Intel, OSX 10.6.8, 800x600 (TV VGA)

Re: Tip: Turn the Natural Chords OFF for your RT soloists! Icelander #417231 06/10/17 01:20 PM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
Joined: May 2017 Posts: 1,685 beatmaster Expert
beatmaster Expert Joined: May 2017 Posts: 1,685	How do you do this.? win 10 64 bit 16gb,i7 chip, ssd 500gb, m-audio air, ,Roland BK-7M, 1000,shure sm7b,sonar,acid,mixcraft, variety of plugins.Sample tank 3,Kontakt. TC Helicon Voicelive 3 2 . https://beatmaster1.bandcamp.com/releases

Re: Tip: Turn the Natural Arrangement OFF for your RT soloists! Icelander #417232 06/10/17 01:29 PM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
Joined: Nov 2012 Posts: 4,786 Iceland Icelander OP Veteran
OP Icelander Veteran Joined: Nov 2012 Posts: 4,786 Iceland	Menu for the track (right-click on the track's button), found under the Track Settings submenu. Attached Files (Click to download or enlarge) (Only available when you are logged in) Screen shot 2017-06-10 at 23.28.56.png (59.38 KB, 134 downloads) Last edited by Icelander; 06/10/17 03:10 PM. Reason: correcting mistakes. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BBox 2022 Audiophile, Mac Pro Intel, OSX 10.6.8, 800x600 (TV VGA)

Re: Tip: Turn the Natural Arrangement OFF for your RT soloists! Icelander #417299 06/11/17 06:38 AM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,082 somewhere in outer space w Expert
w Expert Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,082 somewhere in outer space	Icelander, Excellent tip Sir. Is there a global setting rather than doing it track by track for every song/project ? If so, where is it set globally ? We can't find it or rather it is not obvious to us. Thanks.

Re: Tip: Turn the Natural Arrangement OFF for your RT soloists! Icelander #417318 06/11/17 09:14 AM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
Joined: Nov 2012 Posts: 4,786 Iceland Icelander OP Veteran
OP Icelander Veteran Joined: Nov 2012 Posts: 4,786 Iceland	Inside Preferences 1 panel, bottom left. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BBox 2022 Audiophile, Mac Pro Intel, OSX 10.6.8, 800x600 (TV VGA)

Re: Tip: Turn the Natural Arrangement OFF for your RT soloists! Icelander #417333 06/11/17 11:22 AM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,814 Winston Salem, NC USA Jim Fogle Veteran
Jim Fogle Veteran Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,814 Winston Salem, NC USA	Eddie, This would make a great tip in the Tip & Tricks section of the forum. The basic idea, turn off natural arrangement when using solo RealTracks, is a good idea for both the Windows and Mac versions of Band-in-a-Box. Here is how to set arrangement options in the 2017 Windows version: To set arrangement in Windows 2017 for a specific track right click on the track radio button > Track Settings > Set Natural Arrangement and select an option. To set arrangement option for all tracks use the option in Song Settings. To set the natural arrangement globally, click Preferences > Arrange. Jim Fogle - 2025 BiaB (Build 1128) RB (Build 5) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk Sonar - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

Re: Tip: Turn the Natural Arrangement OFF for your RT soloists! Icelander #417338 06/11/17 12:03 PM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
Joined: Nov 2012 Posts: 4,786 Iceland Icelander OP Veteran
OP Icelander Veteran Joined: Nov 2012 Posts: 4,786 Iceland	I really considered this to be more of a "friendly advice" or a suggestion than a 'certified' Tip with a capital T, you know - and perhaps a gentle nod to the staff along the way about this limiting side-effect of a new feature (which I'm sure wasn't intentional). Having said that, feel free to make something 'more' of it as you please Last edited by Icelander; 06/11/17 12:06 PM. Reason: Further details Just because you can, doesn't mean you should! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BBox 2022 Audiophile, Mac Pro Intel, OSX 10.6.8, 800x600 (TV VGA)

Re: Tip: Turn the Natural Arrangement OFF for your RT soloists! Icelander #417442 06/12/17 02:20 AM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 6,376 Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A. Notes Norton Veteran
Notes Norton Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 6,376 Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A.	I'm not sure just what the "natural arrangement" does anyway. Does it compromise the chords so that when I put in a complex chord it simplifies it? If so, what's the sense of putting in a Bb7#5#9 or something like that? Or does it improve voice leading? That would be a good thing. Or something else? I generally leave it off anyway. The little yellow box appears and I ignore it. Perhaps I should do some experimenting. Insights and incites by Notes Last edited by Notes Norton; 06/12/17 02:22 AM. Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music https://www.nortonmusic.com 100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove & Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks

Re: Tip: Turn the Natural Arrangement OFF for your RT soloists! Notes Norton #417499 06/12/17 08:07 AM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,082 somewhere in outer space w Expert
w Expert Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,082 somewhere in outer space	Notes Norton, Good post! My interpretation : By turning off Natural Arrangement chords then complex chords will supposedly be played. Band in a Box ( Windows or Mac ) is a extremely sophisticated artificial intelligence based music making programme. The musical sounds of those complex chords is rather different when compared to the sound of those same chord or chords when played by an acoustical instrument as compared to a computer generated sound. I have tried it by playing those complex chords on a piano and there is a significant difference. Mind you the speaker system used does play an important role. My conclusion is that it is somewhat a waste of time typing in those complex and obscure chord structures. Although on the other hand great for making use of all my musical theory knowledge acquired from my early years of study and graduation in The Royal Conservatory Certificate Program. I think that if you have a powerful computer ( loads and loads of RAM ) than you can turn the natural arrangement OFF and your computer would be able to generate those complex chords in addition to all the other stuff it has to generate in milliseconds . Just my thoughts.

Re: Tip: Turn the Natural Arrangement OFF for your RT soloists! Icelander #417624 06/13/17 02:13 AM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 6,376 Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A. Notes Norton Veteran
Notes Norton Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 6,376 Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A.	I know that in complex chords, a pianist might choose to only play a few of the notes, but often they are the extensions letting the bass play the root and other notes understood. But this should be done with the idea of what supports the melody and which tones add interest to the chord movement. I wonder if BiaB is 'smart' enough to choose which tones support the chord movement (since it doesn't know the melody I'm going to play, that one is out of the picture). Insights and incites by Notes Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music https://www.nortonmusic.com 100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove & Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks

Re: Tip: Turn the Natural Arrangement OFF for your RT soloists! Notes Norton #417636 06/13/17 03:55 AM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
Joined: Nov 2012 Posts: 4,786 Iceland Icelander OP Veteran
OP Icelander Veteran Joined: Nov 2012 Posts: 4,786 Iceland	Originally Posted By: Notes Norton I wonder if BiaB is 'smart' enough to choose which tones support the chord movement (since it doesn't know the melody I'm going to play, that one is out of the picture). Actually, if you've entered your melody into the song via midi (which you should, see my tip on that from a few years back), then the program absolutely does "know" what the melody is - and it does matter to the choices it then makes in terms of what particular rendition of any given chord it uses, even with the Realtracks! It's one of the core reasons the program needs to pre-render everything that is Realtrack. Last edited by Icelander; 06/13/17 04:05 AM. Reason: Correcting factual mistakes. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BBox 2022 Audiophile, Mac Pro Intel, OSX 10.6.8, 800x600 (TV VGA)

Re: Tip: Turn the Natural Arrangement OFF for your RT soloists! Icelander #417810 06/14/17 09:13 AM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 6,376 Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A. Notes Norton Veteran
Notes Norton Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 6,376 Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A.	Except I play the melody on my sax, guitar, flute, wind synth, or keyboard synth live while BiaB is playing the background. I don't want BiaB to have all the fun, so I save the melody for myself. When BiaB started it was nothing more than a great auto-accompaniment program. As the years went on and more features added, it has become a lot more than than that, but it's still what I use it for most. I can load a song in, pick up my sax (or whatever) play the melody and then practice or investigate different improvisation ideas I might have. The sax, flute, and wind synth are monophonic, so without the auto-accompaniment going on, I can't hear the chords in my head well enough to know if I'm making and relieving tensions. For me BiaB is the best practice tool I know of. Insights and incites by Notes Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music https://www.nortonmusic.com 100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove & Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks

Re: Tip: Turn the Natural Arrangement OFF for your RT soloists! Notes Norton #417814 06/14/17 09:33 AM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
Joined: Nov 2012 Posts: 4,786 Iceland Icelander OP Veteran
OP Icelander Veteran Joined: Nov 2012 Posts: 4,786 Iceland	Originally Posted By: Notes Norton Except I play the melody on my sax, guitar, flute, wind synth, or keyboard synth live while BiaB is playing the background. I don't want BiaB to have all the fun, so I save the melody for myself. Which is perfectly understandable! And you can still of course be the "main man" and just turn the volume off for the Melody channel (in the case of live performance), and/or record your audio on top of the previously entered midi melody (in non-live cases), which will automatically suppress the midi without removing it = In both cases the midi data is still there, for the benefit of both the program and yourself (in terms of results) Just because you can, doesn't mean you should! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BBox 2022 Audiophile, Mac Pro Intel, OSX 10.6.8, 800x600 (TV VGA)

Re: Tip: Turn the Natural Arrangement OFF for your RT soloists! Icelander #417879 06/15/17 01:54 AM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 6,376 Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A. Notes Norton Veteran
Notes Norton Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 6,376 Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A.	Thanks! Notes Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music https://www.nortonmusic.com 100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove & Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks

Re: Tip: Turn the Natural Arrangement OFF for your RT soloists! Notes Norton #417975 06/15/17 11:40 AM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
Joined: Nov 2012 Posts: 4,786 Iceland Icelander OP Veteran
OP Icelander Veteran Joined: Nov 2012 Posts: 4,786 Iceland	Originally Posted By: Notes Norton Thanks! Notes Welcome to it, mate. In fact, it's been your train of thoughts throughout this whole thread here that lead us to this latest point (which thanks to you I've remembered again), which in turn has served as just the nudge I needed to make a "proper" post about it in the designated Tips forum. So..right back at ya and much obliged Last edited by Icelander; 06/15/17 11:43 AM. Reason: correcting mistakes. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BBox 2022 Audiophile, Mac Pro Intel, OSX 10.6.8, 800x600 (TV VGA)

Re: Tip: Turn the Natural Arrangement OFF for your RT soloists! Icelander #561366 10/29/19 07:07 AM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
Joined: Jul 2017 Posts: 201 West Virginia Warren Keller Apprentice
Warren Keller Apprentice Joined: Jul 2017 Posts: 201 West Virginia	Jim Fogle, Icelander, I realize this is an older thread but I hope that you will see it. When I generate RT solos, it's in RealBand, and not BIAB. For general arranging within BIAB (when solos are not involved), what is the better setting, Natural Arrangements or not? It would seem that from other threads, that allowing Natural Arrangements is considered an excellent choice for improved performance in BIAB. Would the Natural Arrangements choice that we make in BIAB, affect the RT solos in RealBand? Thank you! Best, Warren Warren A. Keller- Woodwindist/Producer Spontaneous Groovin' Combustion Tune 9 Music- SESAC

Re: Tip: Turn the Natural Arrangement OFF for your RT soloists! Warren Keller #561367 10/29/19 07:14 AM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
Joined: Nov 2012 Posts: 4,786 Iceland Icelander OP Veteran
OP Icelander Veteran Joined: Nov 2012 Posts: 4,786 Iceland	Originally Posted By: Warren Keller Would the Natural Arrangements choice that we make in BIAB, affect the RT solos in RealBand? Thank you! Unfortunately RealBand does not exist for my platform (Mac), so I'm afraid I cannot answer this particular question. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BBox 2022 Audiophile, Mac Pro Intel, OSX 10.6.8, 800x600 (TV VGA)

Re: Tip: Turn the Natural Arrangement OFF for your RT soloists! Icelander #561382 10/29/19 08:38 AM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
Joined: Jul 2017 Posts: 201 West Virginia Warren Keller Apprentice
Warren Keller Apprentice Joined: Jul 2017 Posts: 201 West Virginia	Thank you Icelander! Hoping Jim Fogle will weigh in. I like using RB to generate tracks, but have moved onto a better DAW for production. Best, Warren Warren A. Keller- Woodwindist/Producer Spontaneous Groovin' Combustion Tune 9 Music- SESAC

Re: Tip: Turn the Natural Arrangement OFF for your RT soloists! Warren Keller #561421 10/29/19 01:30 PM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,814 Winston Salem, NC USA Jim Fogle Veteran
Jim Fogle Veteran Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,814 Winston Salem, NC USA	Warren, As far as I can tell, the natural arrangement selection appears to be confined to Band-in-a-Box. Some settings stored in a Band-in-a-Box song file are not recognized by RealBand. But what song file settings RealBand uses and which file settings are ignored is not documented. I don't think the question, "Does the natural arrangement setting in Band-in-a-Box affect RealTrack generation in RealBand?" can be answered in an absolute sense. But you might be able to get a better sense by experimenting with short and simple song files where the only difference between the song files is the natural arrangement settings. Jim Fogle - 2025 BiaB (Build 1128) RB (Build 5) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk Sonar - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

Re: Tip: Turn the Natural Arrangement OFF for your RT soloists! Icelander #561461 10/29/19 04:43 PM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
Joined: Jul 2017 Posts: 201 West Virginia Warren Keller Apprentice
Warren Keller Apprentice Joined: Jul 2017 Posts: 201 West Virginia	Thanks Jim. Given that Natural Arrangement has long been chosen in my BIAB preferences, and the rich and varied solos I've generated in RealBand, I'd think that BIAB's Natural Arrangement does not in any way limit the RealBand soloist and MultiRiff features. Just wanted to check, though! Best, Warren Warren A. Keller- Woodwindist/Producer Spontaneous Groovin' Combustion Tune 9 Music- SESAC

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