I'd say the answer to your question is a definite YES. While I haven't played with the thumbdrive feature yet, the clip I posted above "Not Everyday Was Sad" was created by playing a full audio mix (created with BIAB) directly from Reaper into the VL3X using the "DAW TRACKING" mode and singing along to create the harmonies. The VL3X recognized the key and created the correct harmonies which were then sent back to Reaper for recording on a new track. The only adjustment to the new recorded track is to line it up properly with the other tracks since there's about a 70 millisecond delay created during the roundtrip of your vocal when recording. Easy stuff.
The only difference between what I did and your question is the SOURCE of the audio file i.e the thumbdrive. However I think with regard to the thumbdrive, the source audio file has to be MP3 or WAV (16bit/48khz). The VL3X will convert other resolutions which takes time. If you're only using the backing track to sing along with your BIAB created tracks an MP3 you will save space and should be sufficient quality for the purpose. Check the VL3X manual link in this thread to learn more about the BACKING TRACK feature which includes use of the thumbdrive as the audio source. In my experience the VL3X will recognize a full mix audio file and create the proper harmonies no matter the source of the "guide audio".
Cost is a very real consideration for this piece of gear. I still have another three weeks to evaluate it before I have to make the decision to keep or return it. A lot of vendors offer that option. However, after only a few days with it I'm about 90% sure I'll keep it. I know it's hard to believe it will do what it claims, but it does. I was skeptical too. Pretty amazing stuff. But not anymore so than BIABs ability to take a Real Track production and change the key and the tempo and still sound great. "What'll they think of next?!" (common old-person rant)
Rob: Thanks for the detailed explanation. That clears up several issues. I may make the plunge, or wait out until the next upgrade to see what might be added. I’m using the Harmony Singer pedal now; but, have not been pleased with the clean, precise tracking needed from the guitar to make it work satisfactorily. Maybe it’s the player (me) at fault. Maybe the guitar tracking ability of the VL3X is better than that in the small, blue pedal. Don’t know. I’d really like a hands-free ability to concentrate on singing and lead work and not have to worry about playing each chord to trigger the harmonies. That’s why I inquired about whether the audio track could trigger the harmonies. Apparently, it will work like that. Amazing.
-- Cost is a very real consideration for this piece of gear. I still have another three weeks to evaluate it before I have to make the decision to keep or return it. A lot of vendors offer that option. However, after only a few days with it I'm about 90% sure I'll keep it. I know it's hard to believe it will do what it claims, but it does. I was skeptical too. -- "What'll they think of next?!" (common old-person rant) --
Been thinking, especially because of your enthusiasm, about getting the VL3x for studio work. Tried other stuff like Antares Harmony engine VST, costs over 200 bucks if you buy it LoL. Antares, well if one is happy with a kind of Mickey Mouse voice singing along the latter seems OK.
But indeed for the costs the VL3x is a bit steep. My experience so far with quite expensive gear that is a selling success prices might drop quite a bit even within a year or so, so investing is only wise if one can make good use of it straight away. Seems a bit cheaper BTW here in Europe, around 800 to 850 Euros. But i'd like to get my hands one one, but probably only would use it to create a specific harmony, and experiment with transgender (female) vocals.
BTW I bought Vocaloid 4 a while back, but it's far to complicated regarding phonetics editing, if you want to work fast, and the software really hicks and slows down your DAW if you want to connect it via rewire or use the specific Cubase related VST plugin.
But some get amazing results, by a lot of work experimenting with controlling it via phonetics and symbols plus pitch and filter controllers not even found in the manual. Probably using them from Japanese or Chinese versions. Example of a Vocaloid 2 done by a real expert (IMO the older voice database "Sweet Ann" was imported into the Vocaloid 3 standalone editor):
As for the VL Rack you might be right; an updated version might be at hand, prices are about the same for the VL3x still, but prices for the VL Rack are sometimes about 30% lower if you shop around.
There were some questions at the beginning of this thread about using BIAB with the TC Helicon for live performances. Now that I've had a few days with the TC VL3X I was able to investigate the possibilities. Here are the results:
I loaded a BIAB song into the program and set the audio drivers to the VL3X. When I played the song in BIAB it was sent directly to the VL3X and I sang the vocals. The VL3X added the harmonies based on the audio from BIAB (NOT MIDI) I used the TWO HIGH vocal preset in the VL3X to get the harmonies. Had I been performing live I would have run the stereo outputs to the PA system. For purposes of this post I just output the tracks to Reaper to create the following file:
This test convinces me that the VL3X could indeed be used with BIAB in a live performance situation. It reads the key and creates some nice harmonies. Excuse my vocal, just a one-take effort to check the BIAB to VL3X setup. Fun stuff.
Looks like it's really working well for you. The harmonies sound nice. Makes me want to get back to using my Boss VE20 that I need to master before I think of upgrading to a VL3X.
Thanks, Rob, for posting all of those short demos. That’s really impressive how it reads the chord changes. I’m a little dense and want to make sure how you set things up. When you said, “I loaded a BIAB song into the program and set the audio drivers to the VL3X”. Did that mean that you played a BIAB song directly from the computer via the audio outputs (left/right stereo) into the appropriate input(s) on the VL3X? Is that the same thing as “set the audio drivers”? In any event, the demo is impressive.
Thanks, Rob, for posting all of those short demos. That’s really impressive how it reads the chord changes. I’m a little dense and want to make sure how you set things up. When you said, “I loaded a BIAB song into the program and set the audio drivers to the VL3X”. Did that mean that you played a BIAB song directly from the computer via the audio outputs (left/right stereo) into the appropriate input(s) on the VL3X? Is that the same thing as “set the audio drivers”? In any event, the demo is impressive.
Yes, I played a BIAB song directly from the computer via the audio outputs (left/right stereo) into the appropriate input(s) on the VL3X. But before I did that I went into BIAB Preferences, and set the audio drivers to VL3X input and output. I did that because the physical hookup I used was a USB cable from the VL3X to my computer. If I'd been playing live I would have sent the outputs of the VL3X to my PA instead. But in this case I wanted to record the VL3X output instead so I could upload it here.
I just hit play and sang to the BIAB song. The VL3X read the key from the BIAB audio and created the proper harmonies to go with my vocal.
There are several ways to route BIAB to the VL3X. Instead of the USB I could have connected a cable from my computer headphone output into the AUX input of the VL3X. That would eliminate having to change the input and output drivers in the BIAB preferences. The VL3X would still have read the key and created the harmonies. There seem to be a variety of possible connections that accomplish the same task. Just depends what you want to do with the combined music, vocals, and harmony output The VL3X has a ton of I/O possibilities and they all work nicely. I hope all this isn't confusing; it's just that the VL3X is very versatile.
One thing you can't do with BIAB and the VL3X is to record your vocals back to BIAB via the Audio Record button. The reason is that the VL3X creates about a 70 millisecond latency. So the vocal track and the BIAB tracks would not line up properly. Recording with BIAB and the VL3X is a different procedure all together. But I wrote this post to describe how you could use BIAB and the VL3X in a live performance situation.
Rob: That’s the best explanation I’ve seen on this whole process. I get it, now. Many thanks for posting. I wish PG Music would offer more videos, illustrations, examples, etc. with vocal outboard gear for those of us who sing and record with BIAB. That would be very helpful. After all, PG Music is offering TC Helicon products for sale on its web site. That being the case, why couldn’t they produce/offer a detailed video showing some of the vocal harmony tricks using BIAB? It’s tough to figure all this out alone. Thank goodness for this forum.
Rob: That’s the best explanation I’ve seen on this whole process. I get it, now. Many thanks for posting. I wish PG Music would offer more videos, illustrations, examples, etc. with vocal outboard gear for those of us who sing and record with BIAB. That would be very helpful. After all, PG Music is offering TC Helicon products for sale on its web site. That being the case, why couldn’t they produce/offer a detailed video showing some of the vocal harmony tricks using BIAB? It’s tough to figure all this out alone. Thank goodness for this forum.
I think it's cool that PGM includes the TC harmony feature in RealBand. But I don't think a lot of people take the time to figure it out, and the final product sounds a lot like the old TC harmony technology: mechanical and computer-ish. But, hey, it's free.
Probably because a lot of people are not doing the BIAB/TC thing, as was mentioned earlier in this thread, there hasn't been an obvious need for an instructional video on using TC products with BIAB. Maybe WE should do one, huh?
I was surprised how little VL3X recording info there was on Youtube and the TC site. I really had to dig around to find what I was looking for to make a recording setup work. This is probably because the VL3X is marketed as a live performance piece of gear. But it's certainly much more than that. I'm really blown away by the quality of the harmonies. TC has come a long way since the TC VoicePrism. Hard to imagine it getting any better than the VL3X though, unless they start doing something similar to BIAB's Real Tracks by incorporating some "Real Voice" tracks into the VL3X. Now that would be cool. Guess we'll see. In the meantime I'm going to make extensive use of the VL3X on my original songs and covers in our studio. Fun stuff, eh?
Here's an original song we did for our last album "Smoky Bars & Steel Guitars" titled "Summertown." The harmonies in the choruses were created with the TC Helicon VoicePrism. About as good as it got back in the early 2000s.
Summertown MP3 from "Smoky Bars & Steel Guitars" CD.
.... I think it's cool that PGM includes the TC harmony feature in RealBand. But I don't think a lot of people take the time to figure it out, and the final product sounds a lot like the old TC harmony technology: mechanical and computer-ish. But, hey, it's free ..
Indeed, you got me curious, just tested it a little, found it completely useless for me .. F
...and the final product sounds a lot like the old TC harmony technology: mechanical and computer-ish
The TC-Helicon was added in BIAB 2004, then enhanced a little in BIAB 2005, and as far as I can tell, has been pretty much the same ever since.
It would be nice if the harmonizer could be updated with newer technology (perhaps a cooperative arrangement with zPlane or even a new arrangement with TC-Helicon); however, it does seem that most harmonizers have gone to hardware, live-performance orientation.
John
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MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
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