If you'd like forum members to double-check a procedure could you please outline, step by step, what you are doing so that we can repeat your process and see what happens. We can then try and find solutions for you.
It is pretty obvious that almost no one uses the midi based stylemaker any more. It is quite easy to check. No 1. Start a new song then start a new style. Program a bass riff to play ONLY on the interval of "up a 2nd". Enter chords into song, key of C, chords are C,D,E,F,G,A,B,C. Programmed riff will play on all progressions EXCEPT E to F and B to C. No 2. As above BUT program a riff to play ONLY on the interval of "up a 5th". If the song key is C,Db,A,Bb,B then it will work. If the song key is E,F,Gb,G,Ab,D#,F#,G#. then it will NOT work as "up a 5th" but it WILL work if programmed as "Down a 4th"
I have previously posted to support that stylemaker will NOT play a correct scale in all keys. They have verified that this is a fault in programming.
I seriously doubt stylemakers ability to work at all.
Thank you for the extra information it helps a lot.
I'm not an expert at using Stylemaker but when I tried the above, I couldn't replicate your problem; it worked for me. Do you use BIAB 2017? (I'm using the current version with the latest build.)
While this might be due to my limited understanding, one thing I noticed when playing around in Stylemaker is that it doesn't seem possible to predict what octave a bar's first bass note will play in when a song/style is generated.
For example.... Using the style I created, with the bass static on the root note, I entered the progression C-Dm-G-Am-Em-F-C. When I generated the song the first time...
the bass began on C (as expected) and, from there, followed the below pattern.
rose a 2nd to D
**rose a 4th to G
**jumped down a 7th to A
rose a 5th to E
climbed a 2nd to F
**dropped a 4th to C
The next time I generated the song...
the bass started on C
rose a 2nd to D
**dropped a 5th to G
**rose a 2nd to A
rose a 5th to E
climbed a 2nd to F
**climbed a 5th to C
I've used ** to show where bass changes into different octaves occurred between the two generations.
Because it doesn't seem possible to know whether a bass note will rise or fall when chords change, my present opinion is that it's probably necessary to consider both options when using Stylemaker. (I anticipate that this is why both those options are present.)
Thus, when one sets up a bass riff (say), it's necessary to preempt the above two up/down possibilities that may occur when the computer generates the song.
As an example, if I use a riff that I want to play when the bass (or chord, presumably) rises a 5th, I also need to set up a partner (or complimentary) riff that will be used in the event that the bass drops a 4th rather than rises a 5th (see image below).
Computers can only do what they are told and by not considering both up/down options when a chord changes,(e.g. the bass goes down a 4th rather than up a 5th and there are no instructions regarding what to do in this event), instrumental silence could occur periodically.
Also, here's something else to try... I found it useful to set the "Relative Weight" to 9 rather than the default 5. (This forces the pattern to play always when the programming requirement is met.)
Hope these thoughts make sense and provide some thoughts that might help. As already mentioned, please keep in mind that I'm not and expert with Stylemaker. Let us know how you go. I'm very interested.
There does not appear to be any progress on my earlier notification to support. I am using the latest update, and have done so since 2010 as well as the new version every year.
I will be more explicit so you can see what I mean.
Start new song, start new style (Test1) In stylemaker bass section 8 beat program C (2 beats) E (3rd above 2 beats), same next bar. save with no masks and weight of 5
that is only one 8 beat riff.
4 beat program beat 1 C, beat 2 B, beat 3 D, beat 4 Db. Save with a weight of 9 (always) and next inteval "up 2nd"
in the song set key to C set 1 chord for each bar (C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C) that is 8 bars
Open notation, set to bass and generate.
As you can see, when it does not recognise a 2nd it defaults to the first 2 notes of the 8 beat riff (this is the default) and if you set a different Key that it happens at different points.
Thanks for the second lot of extra information. That was exactly what I was after. Now I can replicate your process and reproduce your problem.
I also found that the F chord produces F natural on the last beat rather than the required F#/Gb.
I've discovered that if one removes the 8 beat pattern so that only the 4 beat pattern remains, it generates properly (because there is no other alternative). The problem seems to be linked to intervals other than major intervals (i.e. F to E and B to C are minor seconds).
For example, if you enter the chords C, Dm, Em, F, G, Am, Bm7b5, C (1 per bar) and then generate, it's possible to see that the pattern is no longer considered, even though the weighting is set to 9 and the chord type is set to 'any'.
The behaviour is definitely inconsistent.
I help test pre-release updates so I will pass this information on to PG Music and include a link to this thread.
Quote:
For those who know Stylemaker and would like to have a look at the style Erol is referring to, the SGU and STY files can be downloaded using the following link.
Thanks Noel, I am an old school jazz piano player and have been VERY frustrated in trying to generate realistic double bass lines, the problems first showed with realtrack jazz bass lines .....very busy with unsuitable rhythms and intervals .... 5th or 3rd played on chord change ..... for my style of playing .... and I can not correct realtracks.
So I thought I will use midi bass lines that I can correct anything I consider is not appropriate.
I do like BIAB, and I do know they have their hands full, but BIAB needs to be musically correct above all else.
I totally understand and I agree with you. It should work.
I've now passed the information on to BIAB programmers (these include Dr Gannon). I have provided the SGU and STY files as well as graphics that show the problem generations (see the images below; in Image 1, the two 4 beat patterns are the same - one is set to 'up a 2nd' and the other is set to 'down a 7th').
If you have anything that you'd like to add, please either make a post here (I'll pass on your comments) or write to Support and include the URL of this thread so that they can read the discussion in detail.
Thank you for inspiring me to get involved more heavily with Stylemaker. I've only ever hiked around the edges of it in the past.
Now, after trying to solve your problem, I have a much more insightful understanding of what it does. It's a very impressive aspect of BIAB! With the masks for controlling riffs, etc., with good source MIDI, and with good MIDI software such Kontakt this would be an amazing tool. I'm going to be playing around with it quite a bit more.
You are right Noel, Stylemaker IS the most impressive aspect of BIAB. Lets hope it can be at a workable level soon.
As good as many bass players are ... they rightly object to the piano player dictating how and what they should play at certain parts of a song, and knowing what the bass will play is vital to the piano. As much as I like live bass players ... it would remove a lot of stress to have midi bass/drums at many gigs.
As much as I like live bass players ... it would remove a lot of stress to have midi bass/drums at many gigs.
Haha, I had to laugh at this one. I would add the word "good" in there as in I like good live bass players... I'm in LA, most are very good but man, nothing like a weak bass player to ruin a gig. I've been playing LH bass on B3 for 40 years and I've been told by several drummers that I'm better than a lot of bass players they've played with. My problem is I'm not JoeyD, I can hold down the bass great but it also restricts my solos (Jimmy Smith said the bass is the boss) so I appreciate a good bassist. If the bass/drums are cookin, I get very energetic with two handed solos but I can't do that if I'm playing bass.
As far as the Stylemaker, you're right. On the forum at least it gets no love at all, I doubt if more than one or two posters use it. I've never used it so I can't comment on your problem.
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