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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 27
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OP
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 27 |
Dear BIAB Mates,
I was at the PGMusic web-site yesterday, and noticed that they are
pushing "Xtra Styles Paks." There are apparently 3 paks of real styles
which have been released separately from their annual upgrades. Two of
these paks were released following the release of BAIB2016, and one of
them was released following the release of BIAB2017.
Each of these three paks costs $49 which is a reasonable price if one
wants to buy the extra styles. However the thing that concerns me is
that when I purchased the "BIAB2017 Everything Pak" it didn't include
these extra styles which were released for BIAB2016. I realize the one
released for BIAB2017 was after-the-fact so I wouldn't expect it to be
included in the "everything pak" for BIAB2017, but I would expect it to
be included in the BIAB2018 "everything pak" which will be released soon.
So I hopped on the PGMusic "chat" and raised this issue with the support
person on the other end who admitted that the "everything pak" was
deceptively named. It doesn't include "everything" despite the name.
The FAQ at PGMusic includes the following question/answer:
30. What is the difference between the Band-in-a-Box and RealBand
EverythingPAK and the PG Music OmniPAK?
The EverythingPAK includes *all* of the currently available RealTracks,
RealDrums, *Style Sets*, all the regular Soloist Sets, the Andy LaVerne
Soloist Series, and Melodist Sets. It also includes the Video Tutorial
PAK, and the 'Songs and Lessons' PAK for Band-in-a-Box. [added the
emphasis around the words "all" and "Style Sets"]
I am very disheartened that PGMusic would stoop to such lows as to tell
us that we get "all the currently available . . . Style Sets" and then
essentially say "oops, only kidding, to get certain style sets you need
to pay a lot more money."
I just thought everybody should be aware that even though you may
purchase the "everything pak" you're not getting everything and they
even admit it's deceptively titled!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,177
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Dear BIAB Mates,
...the support person on the other end who admitted that the "everything pak" was deceptively named. It doesn't include "everything" despite the name. Well I would suspect they were not implying there was something nefarious intended. Just acknowledging that "everything" may not have been the best term to use. So here is how I see it. The Xtra Styles are actually NOT new styles at all, but just a application of the prior styles which came in the "everything pak". These "Xtra Styles" are PG musicians applying their skills at mixing and matching the "existing" styles including all the realtracks. So there you have it. Even the word "Xtra" is not entirely correct usage. But I would not go so far as to use the word deceptive. Coming from Canada, maybe its because PGMusic is not native US speakers (said with a big smile). 
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, 1TB WD Black NVMe SSD, 2TB WDC Blue SSD, 1TB WD Blue, 2 TB SK NVMe, 6 TB External, Motu Audio Express 6x6
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 27
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OP
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Posts: 27 |
But the description of these "xtra paks" says: (copied and pasted from the PGMusic web-site)
"Xtra Styles PAKs will add TONS of new RealStyles to your collection" -- they are *new* real styles, not reworking of older styles.
And (equally with a big smile) I'm sure that even in Canada "everything" actually means "everything."
Regarding the use of the word "deceptive" here's a quote from the PGMusic chat session I had this morning:
"The name EverythingPAK is understandably deceptive, as it isn't include literally everything."
That was from the technician at PGMusic.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2002
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By the way, have you checked out what comes with NI "Komplete" and what does not?  Big sound suites like Komplete and like BIAB and like Toontracks cost a lot of money. Combine that with the fact that they continue to grow and therefore need more money if what they provide is of value. To us users we have to decide on exactly what the value is to us and how much we want to pay. Just sayin...
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, 1TB WD Black NVMe SSD, 2TB WDC Blue SSD, 1TB WD Blue, 2 TB SK NVMe, 6 TB External, Motu Audio Express 6x6
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2002
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"Xtra Styles PAKs will add TONS of new RealStyles to your collection" -- they are *new* real styles, not reworking of older styles. OK, on first pass that is a bit discept... - I mean confusing. But what they are implying, or should be implying, is there are no new sounds. Just a reworking of existing sounds. Ya this is all coming back to me now. We have had this discussion here in the past. Others have pointed this out and been very vocal. What can I say.
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, 1TB WD Black NVMe SSD, 2TB WDC Blue SSD, 1TB WD Blue, 2 TB SK NVMe, 6 TB External, Motu Audio Express 6x6
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 27
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OP
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I understand the need for a cash-flow to keep the company alive, and I'm all in favor of that, having upgraded every version along the way since the DOS days.
They could raise the price of the Everything Pak if they feel they need to, if they would only live up to what they're calling it and actually include those extra styles paks. Or change the label for what they now call the "everything pak." Label it "Almost Everything Pak" and be honest and upfront about the fact that it's not really complete.
What other companies do isn't germane to the issue -- just as when we were little children and did something bad and justified it to our parents by saying "But everybody was doing it!" and our parents pointed out that just because everybody is doing it doesn't change a bad thing into a good thing.
I realize I'm just spitting into the wind on this point, but I wanted to be sure that people who haven't been around for any previous discussions on this point understand that the "everything" pak doesn't really have everything included, even though PGMusic's own FAQ says it does.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Nov 2002
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[snip]But what they are implying, or should be implying, is there are no new sounds. Just a reworking of existing sounds. They're very clear that these are not new sounds, but rather are new styles working with existing realtracks. That's stated very clearly. I wasn't confused about that, nor am I upset about that. Since we can't make our own real styles, we're at the mercy of whatever they release should we want a wider palette of styles to choose from. Don't get me wrong -- I will be buying these styles sets when the budget allows (assuming they're not included in the BIAB2018 Everything Pak) for several reasons: 1) because I really like some of the new styles and will find them useful and 2) I want to keep supporting PGMusic because I value their continued production of BIAB, just as I have supported them since I first found out about them. I realize that buying these new styles paks will be rewarding what I view as bad behavior, but I also know that they're not likely to change their behavior just from my complaints, so I can either not buy the styles and punish PGMusic by withholding my money while also punishing myself by not getting styles that may be very useful, or I can simply bite the bullet, buy the styles, and having had my little temper tantrum here, get back to more important life issues. 
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2011
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Apprentice
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since we can't make our own real styles Of course you can. Every year that's even a user contest creating new styles, and many of the ones included in the Xtra Paks are. HTH,
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 27
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since we can't make our own real styles Of course you can. Every year that's even a user contest creating new styles, and many of the ones included in the Xtra Paks are. HTH, Well, when I open up the stylemaker the only choices I see for instruments are MIDI patches. So how does one go about creating a new real style -- one that uses realtracks instead of midi instruments? What am I doing wrong that I can't access the realtracks instruments?
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Coming from Canada, maybe its because PGMusic is not native US speakers (said with a big smile). The only five Canadian words that I know are Labatts, Molson Golden, hockey and eh
When you are at the checkout line and they ask if you found everything say "Why, are you hiding stuff?"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Just when you have found peace I almost hate to bring this up. But, Since we can't make our own real styles, we're at the mercy of whatever they release should we want a wider palette of styles to choose from. I am of the opinion that we can make our own real styles. Real styles are not like midi styles which involve coding. Real Styles are nothing more than; set the key, set the tempo and select a grouping of real tracks for the instruments. BIAB tries to provide a product that can work with customers of any skill levels (that means no skill to advanced). So if you don't know that you should not have two bass players playing at the same time, or that drums should not swing when the piano is playing straight, then no problem, Real Styles are provided which give you a appropriate band playing in an appropriate manner. But if you want two bass players cause you have a jones for bass, and a swing groove against a straight backing fits your jazz mood, then you just need whatever real tracks you want to get your "real style". Now I know this is a controversial subject and I don't want to upset anyone, but BIAB is one complex instrument that can take a very long time to master. Others may have other opinions - which are always welcome here.
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, 1TB WD Black NVMe SSD, 2TB WDC Blue SSD, 1TB WD Blue, 2 TB SK NVMe, 6 TB External, Motu Audio Express 6x6
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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since we can't make our own real styles Of course you can. Every year that's even a user contest creating new styles, and many of the ones included in the Xtra Paks are. HTH, Ya, what our man in Italy said...
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, 1TB WD Black NVMe SSD, 2TB WDC Blue SSD, 1TB WD Blue, 2 TB SK NVMe, 6 TB External, Motu Audio Express 6x6
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Well, when I open up the stylemaker the only choices I see for instruments are MIDI patches. So how does one go about creating a new real style -- one that uses realtracks instead of midi instruments? What am I doing wrong that I can't access the realtracks instruments? Now you are asking the right questions.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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dhbailey:
You COULD make any of the "Xtra Styles" yourself, if you've a mind to. You don't need the "Stylemaker" as you've found out. You just start with a "blank" style, or any existing style, and add the same RealTracks that PGMusic did in their "Xtra Style".
Mind you, you have to sort through the myriad of RT's , mix them accurately, get the beat right, the tempo right, the mix right etc. That's where the value is of buying them. They've gone through all that work, you just buy and use.
I do agree that "everything" in this context is misleading. I like your idea of the "almost everything pak".
LLOYD S
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Nov 2002
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OP
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Just when you have found peace I almost hate to bring this up. But, Since we can't make our own real styles, we're at the mercy of whatever they release should we want a wider palette of styles to choose from. I am of the opinion that we can make our own real styles. Real styles are not like midi styles which involve coding. Real Styles are nothing more than; set the key, set the tempo and select a grouping of real tracks for the instruments. Creating a style is more than simply choosing different realtracks -- creating a style means providing the data like the stylemaker requires for midi styles. To create a style you have to tell the "players" what to play, how to voice the chords we want. And then we need to be able to save that as a separate style which will work as we want it to whenever we choose it. I still don't see how to do that and nobody has provided any instructions. If I start out with a blank style and then select realtracks for the different patches, I indeed get new sounds. However I can't save that as my own real style. And if I open up the StyleMaker, and save the current style under a new name, when I select that style it shows up with no instruments in the various tracks. So again I ask, how does a user create their own real style?
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Creating a style is more than simply choosing different realtracks -- creating a style means providing the data like the stylemaker requires for midi styles. To create a style you have to tell the "players" what to play, how to voice the chords we want. And then we need to be able to save that as a separate style which will work as we want it to whenever we choose it. I still don't see how to do that and nobody has provided any instructions. You really got this all wrong. First, real-styles are not like midi-styles. Real styles are a collection of the audio recording of multiple individual instruments. The only thing these recording need from you is the tempo and key and the chords. Chord voicings have already been recorded. Second, I don't make and save real-track styles, I make and save songs. So someone else will have to comment on how to "save" your new real-style. And finally, patience, there are a lot of professional question answers here, much better than I at addressing you questions. I am sure they will weigh-in, in due time.
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, 1TB WD Black NVMe SSD, 2TB WDC Blue SSD, 1TB WD Blue, 2 TB SK NVMe, 6 TB External, Motu Audio Express 6x6
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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If I start out with a blank style and then select realtracks for the different patches, I indeed get new sounds. However I can't save that as my own real style. And if I open up the StyleMaker, and save the current style under a new name, when I select that style it shows up with no instruments in the various tracks. RealStyles are very different from MIDI styles and are processed by a completely different engine. You don't get to "tell" the RealTracks how to play like you do the MIDI tracks in a MIDI style. You have several options to create a new RealStyle based on existing RealTracks. As has been said, start with a blank style (or actually start with any style; doesn't really matter. Then substitute the RealTracks you want, and then select " Save Current Song (except muted instrument) as a Style" Or you can open StyleMaker and for a particular track, you can click on the Miscellaneous Style Settings, then click the More button, which will let you assign a RealTrack to that track. When you do that, however, you don't get all the settings that you do with MIDI - such as, play only under these circumstances, or push a certain number of ticks, or set weights on different patterns, etc. No, you just get that RealTrack that gets played as the RT engine determines. Maybe not the answer you want, but it's the way it works. And yes, the EverythingPak isn't everything. It does not include every product PGMusic sells. For example, in additional the the XTRA styles, you still have to purchase jbridge separately if you want to use 64-bit plugins, you also don't get the Coyote Forte softsynth, and you don't get all the libraries. I do agree that a better term should be used; just like I think the ProPak should be renamed, as that has caused much confusion over the years. You think you are getting the Professional version, but it's really just the basic program with a few styles thrown in to give you a flavor of what BIAB/RealBand can do. But also as has been pointed out, if you go to the Native Instruments site, their "Komplete" series isn't "complete"; in fact, there are two levels of "Komplete" and even the "Komplete Ultimate" (while it really has A LOT) doesn't have everything.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2025/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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With an anticipated new release being launched soon, maybe it's an ideal time for PG Music to consider new naming conventions for the product range?
As an example, somehow the name 'Band-in-a-Box Pro' does give the impression that it's something more than the basic 'Entry Level' into the product range.
Perhaps 'Band-in-a-Box Lite' or 'Lite-Pak' might actually be more fitting for this particular product?
BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Something similar that has bothered me in the past...
I have paid additional $$ for extra paks of RealTracks then in the following year found those same RealTracks included in the upgrade and referred to as new RealTracks. I only discovered this because I was thrilled with some baritone guitar tracks one year and hoping for more the next year. Then I saw "new" baritone tracks in the following year's upgrade but they were the same ones I bought previously.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Why are folks mentioning Komplete as if their deceptive marketing makes other deceptive marketing ok??? "Well, others do it" is NOT an acceptable excuse!
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Holiday Weekend Hours
Our Customer Service hours this weekend are as follows:
Friday, April 18: 8:00 - 4:00
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Thank you!
Band-in-a-Box 2025 French Version is Here!
Bonjour à tous,
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 pour Windows est disponible en Français.
Le téléchargement se fait à partir du site PG Music
Pour ceux qui auraient déjà acheté la version 2025 de Band-in-a-Box (et qui donc ont une version anglaise), il est possible de "franciser" cette version avec les patchs suivants:
BIAB 2025 - francisation
RealBand 2025 - francisation
Voilà, enjoy!
Band-in-a-Box 2025 German Version is Here!
Update Your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 to Build 1128 for Windows Today!
Already using Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Windows®? Download Build 1128 now from our Support Page to enjoy the latest enhancements and improvements from our team.
Stay up to date—get the latest update now!
Update to RealBand® 2025 Build 5 Windows Today!
Already using RealBand® 2025 for Windows®? Download Build 5 now from our Support Page to ensure you have the latest enhancements and improvements from our team.
Get the latest update today!
PowerTracks Pro Audio 2025 for Windows is Here!
PowerTracks Pro Audio 2025 is here! This new version introduces many features, including VST3 support, the ability to load or import a .FLAC file, a reset option for track height in the Tracks window, a taller Timeline on the Notation window toolbar, new freeze buttons in the Tracks window, three toolbar modes (two rows, single row, and none), the improved Select Patch dialog with text-based search and numeric patch display, a new button in the DirectX/VST window to copy an effects group, and more!
First-time packages start at only $49. Already a PowerTracks Pro Audio user? Upgrade for as little as $29!
www.pgmusic.com/powertracks.htm
Video: Summary of the New Band-in-a-Box® App for iOS®
Join Tobin as he takes you on a tour of the new Band-in-a-Box® app for iOS®! Designed for musicians, singer-songwriters, and educators, this powerful tool lets you create, play, and transfer songs effortlessly on your iPhone® or iPad®—anytime, anywhere.
Band-in-a-Box® for iOS® :Summary video.
Check out the forum post for more information.
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